Galatians Discussion

[Everlasting-Grace]

Of course it does not puff me up in pride.

But I am saying that if anyone looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, they will be blessed in their deed (James 1:25).

The law of liberty is NOT the law of moses

The law of moses is called the minister or law of death.

This apparently contradicts what you have posted out of Galatians 3:10.

Now reconcile the two.

Of course, I have already reconciled them in a post above (https://christianchat.com/threads/galatians-discussion.203410/post-4745814).

No it does not. The law office moses has no liberty that is what Galations shows. If you sin once, your under the curse. It requires perfection. And you and I have already failed to keep the law. And between now and death, we will still fail to keep the law.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

We do not need the schoolmaster any more because we have been trained by him; and therefore it would be our inclination to be obedient to his teachings even without him being a taskmaster over our lives.

I do not understand your thinking

the schoolmaster was to LEAD US TO CHRIST

Once we have christ, The schoolmaster HAS COMPLETED ITS JOB

That is why we do not need the schoolmaster anymore.

It has nothing to do with obedience. It has to do with the fact we have admitted WE ARE NOT OBEDIENT.

 

[Gideon300]

Hello, you can call me Kor. I wanted to start a discussion on Galatians. I’m reading through it, thinking different things over, and want to put some thoughts down to begin.
There is one part I’d like to mention. 2:14-21. The book was written to the Galatian Christians who happened to be gentiles. The problem, which Paul saw first hand, and confronted Peter about in front of the other Jewish believers, was about their hypocrisy. The trouble wasn’t Peter or the other Jews with him believing justification by works. They already knew justification was through faith in Jesus Christ, and not by works of the law. In v.16 the word “knowing” connects “We who are Jews” speaking of Paul, Peter and those playing hypocrites with Peter are all Jews who are “knowing”. What do they know? “…that a person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus”. I’m gathering from this text, that it’s not a problem of a wrong belief about works meriting God’s favor. Rather, these Jews acting hypocritical by separating themselves from the Galatian gentile believers because they aren’t circumcised, are following Torah in that moment, separated from their gentile brethren as if they’re not their brethren. A table fellowship problem, who can sit and eat with who, circumcised people separated from uncircumcised people, not eating together, is contrary with the Gospel, and perverts the Gospel in its intent, not so much it’s content. The intent being both Jew and Gentile joined together as one people of God and all being Abrahams children according to God’s Covenantal promise in Genesis 15.
I’ll begin there.

I think you misunderstand the extent of the problem that the Galatians had. Paul identifies himself then launches into a rebuke. Most of his letters begin with encouragement and exhortation, but not this time. He accuses them of turning to a different gospel. That's more than hypocrisy. Paul accuses them of being foolish and being bewitched. The Jews preaching the false gospel were not just practicing religious apartheid. They were endevouring to convert the Galatians to Judaism.

Paul warns them,
Galatians 5:
2Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

 

[Grandpa]

The Pharisees mistake was in a bad interpretatin of law, I agree, but it was that they added to the law through their interpretation.

Christ told us that if we love God we will obey Him. Christ gave us ways to live for him and he spoke of how we live, not how we think.

We are protected by the Lord from this "pretenting". We are to give our will to God, to repent of our own will to sin and want to be obedient with faith in every word that comes from Christ. As we humble ourselves before Christ and bend to His will--that is being obedient with none of your pretense. Christ sums it up by saying "repent".

Your posts are not even pretending to obey law, they teach to ignore the law and rebel.

There is no point in pretending to obey law. You can't do it.


When you pretend that you obey the Law you must add to it through your own interpretation.

 

[DavidTree]

For those who find it difficult to grasp. The law comes in two parts. The law itself and the attached penalty for transgression. That law has been abolished inasmuch as the penalty is removed from believers so they are not under law but under grace.
Paul puts it well

Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness(not full stop) for everyone who believeth Rom10:4
what was written in the law, the holy, righteous and just law was placed on believers hearts, with no penalty for transgressions. It cuts out a licence to sin under grace. Acts 15 in no way contradicts that
Pretty neat, what is holy, just and good remains, but the penalty attached that brought condemnation is removed

The Two Parts of the Law have been replaced with 3 Parts of PERFECTION.

Here They are for you and everyone whom God calls:

#1. Son of Promise = SHILOH = REST = 7th Day = CHRIST the Son of God who is full of Grace Truth and Mercy = Salvation

#2. Promise of the Father = Baptism of the Holy Spirit = Matt 3:11 , John 14:16 , Acts ch1 & ch2 , 1 Corinthians

#3. Promise of the Resurrection = John 11:25 , Isaiah 26:19 , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 1 Cor ch15 , Revelation

The Law could NEVER do this for anyone = choose wisely.

 

[justbyfaith]

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped,
and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the works of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Whoever works on the Lord's Sabbath Rest shall be put to death = John 3:16-18

Everyone must choose = the Law or CHRIST = you cannot serve two masters.

Ephesians 2:10 are works that God prepared beforehand that we should walk in = ZERO law = ALL from CHRIST thru Grace n Faith

Have you considered the following?

Rom 2:13, (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

It is not that the people mentioned in this verse are justified through their law-keeping; it is that they were justified first; which means that they were born again (John 3:3-6)....regenerated and renewed (Titus 3:3-7)...made into new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17)...and therefore began to walk according to the fruit of goodness against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23).

They are declared righteous on their day of judgment because, while they are justified by faith, their faith had an effect on the way that they lived their lives.

 

[justbyfaith]

SEE Post #116 (https://christianchat.com/threads/galatians-discussion.203410/post-4746438) and #137 (https://christianchat.com/threads/galatians-discussion.203410/post-4746642)

See post #134 (https://christianchat.com/threads/galatians-discussion.203410/post-4746600) and post #146 (https://christianchat.com/threads/galatians-discussion.203410/post-4746877).

 

[justbyfaith]

The law of liberty is NOT the law of moses

Two of the ten commandments are included in it at the very least (James 2:11-12).

 

[justbyfaith]

The law of liberty is NOT the law of moses

The law of moses is called the minister or law of death.


No it does not. The law office moses has no liberty that is what Galations shows. If you sin once, your under the curse. It requires perfection. And you and I have already failed to keep the law. And between now and death, we will still fail to keep the law.

Of course if you are seeking to be justified through being good, law-keeping, or personal merits, one mess-up will condemn you.

But if you know that you have been justified through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ, you are not going to be condemned over the fact that you are obedient, now , are you? Likewise, are you going to be condemned if you seek to be obedient?

 

[DavidTree]

Have you considered the following?

Rom 2:13, (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

It is not that the people mentioned in this verse are justified through their law-keeping; it is that they were justified first; which means that they were born again (John 3:3-6)....regenerated and renewed (Titus 3:3-7)...made into new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17)...and therefore began to walk according to the fruit of goodness against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23).

They are declared righteous on their day of judgment because, while they are justified by faith, their faith had an effect on the way that they lived their lives.

Consider and take to heart the following:

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on another. For on whatever grounds you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2And we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, O man, pass judgment on others, yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4Or do you disregard the riches of His kindness, tolerance, and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you to repentance?

5But because of your hard and unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will repay each one according to his deeds.”a 7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow wickedness, there will be wrath and anger.

9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil, first for the Jew, then for the Greek; 10but glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, first for the Jew, then for the Greek. 11For God does not show favoritism.

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous.

Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them on the day when
God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel.

 

[justbyfaith]

I do not understand your thinking

the schoolmaster was to LEAD US TO CHRIST

Once we have christ, The schoolmaster HAS COMPLETED ITS JOB

That is why we do not need the schoolmaster anymore.

It has nothing to do with obedience. It has to do with the fact we have admitted WE ARE NOT OBEDIENT.

So, the job of the schoolmaster is to prove that we are disobedient and cannot be obedient.

So, what now? Now that it has completed its job, we are to resign ourselves to the fact that we are disobedient and just say, hell, I may as well continue to be disobedient since that is what I am.

Therefore the purpose of the law is to show us we are disobedient so that we will accept that that is what we are and walk in disobedience ever after?

I believe that one of the law's purposes is to show us what sin is.

We are commanded to cease from sinning in such passages as 1 Corinthians 15:34, Ephesians 4:26. And sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

The one who is born of God doth not commit sin and "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9).

This ought to tell you that the law, as a schoolmaster, teaches us something...how we are to behave once we are out in the real world.

Once we have been trained by the schoolmaster, we will behave as we are supposed to without the continued tutelage of the schoolmaster.

 

[justbyfaith]

There is no point in pretending to obey law. You can't do it.

You can't do it without the Holy Spirit.

If we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

Not the letter (Galatians 6:13) but the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6).

 

[justbyfaith]

I do not understand your thinking

the schoolmaster was to LEAD US TO CHRIST

Once we have christ, The schoolmaster HAS COMPLETED ITS JOB

That is why we do not need the schoolmaster anymore.

It has nothing to do with obedience. It has to do with the fact we have admitted WE ARE NOT OBEDIENT.

It is Christ's job to save us from our sins (Matthew 1:21).

Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20).

 

[Gideon300]

So, the job of the schoolmaster is to prove that we are disobedient and cannot be obedient.

So, what now? Now that it has completed its job, we are to resign ourselves to the fact that we are disobedient and just say, hell, I may as well continue to be disobedient since that is what I am.

Therefore the purpose of the law is to show us we are disobedient so that we will accept that that is what we are and walk in disobedience ever after?

I believe that one of the law's purposes is to show us what sin is.

We are commanded to cease from sinning in such passages as 1 Corinthians 15:34, Ephesians 4:26. And sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

The one who is born of God doth not commit sin and "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9).

This ought to tell you that the law, as a schoolmaster, teaches us something...how we are to behave once we are out in the real world.

Once we have been trained by the schoolmaster, we will behave as we are supposed to without the continued tutelage of the schoolmaster.

You miss the point entirely. You also fail to realise that the Law is only a shadow of the reality. God's standard of righteousness is far higher than the law. The sermon on the mount makes that clear.

God's definition of sin: whatever is not of faith. God knows that we can't keep the law. He does not terminate the Law, He terminates us. We die to the law so that we can live to Christ. God raises us up to be new creations. We have new life that we did not manufacture and we have the righteousness of Christ. We now live according to the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. Lord Jesus both instructs us in what we should be and do, and empowers us to be and do. Law says, "Thou shalt not...!" Grace says, "I (God) will do in you and through what pleases me." (Philippians 2:13).

It really is no longer I that lives. It really is Christ that lives in me. I really do live by His faith, His love, His peace, joy and everything else that I need in order to please God. I was not always like this. For years i struggled with failure and defeat, until I finally realised that it was not up to me. All God requires is my willingness. He takes care of the rest.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Two of the ten commandments are included in it at the very least (James 2:11-12).

2 Corinthians 3:7

But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

Can you please explain what the ministry of death and the ministry of condemnation was that was given to moses on the mountain.

And then exp[lain what the ministry of righteousness is?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Of course if you are seeking to be justified through being good, law-keeping, or personal merits, one mess-up will condemn you.

But if you know that you have been justified through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ, you are not going to be condemned over the fact that you are obedient, now , are you? Likewise, are you going to be condemned if you seek to be obedient?

so are you being obedient so as to not be condemned, or what?

Because this is what it appears you are saying here.

our conversation is what teaches us how to be morally upright people who are obedient.

Not how one maintains salvation correct?

 

[justbyfaith]

You miss the point entirely. You also fail to realise that the Law is only a shadow of the reality. God's standard of righteousness is far higher than the law. The sermon on the mount makes that clear.

God's definition of sin: whatever is not of faith. God knows that we can't keep the law. He does not terminate the Law, He terminates us. We die to the law so that we can live to Christ. God raises us up to be new creations. We have new life that we did not manufacture and we have the righteousness of Christ. We now live according to the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. Lord Jesus both instructs us in what we should be and do, and empowers us to be and do. Law says, "Thou shalt not...!" Grace says, "I (God) will do in you and through what pleases me." (Philippians 2:13).

It really is no longer I that lives. It really is Christ that lives in me. I really do live by His faith, His love, His peace, joy and everything else that I need in order to please God. I was not always like this. For years i struggled with failure and defeat, until I finally realised that it was not up to me. All God requires is my willingness. He takes care of the rest.

The sermon on the Mount makes that clear. Would you say that God's standard of righteousness is higher than the standard that we find in the Sermon on the Mount?

See Hebrews 7:12. Jesus re-defined the law in the Sermon on the Mount and Paul again re-defined it so that it amounts to walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

No one can keep the letter of the law (Galatians 6:13).

The spirit of it, however, is a different story (Romans 7:6, 8:4).

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So, the job of the schoolmaster is to prove that we are disobedient and cannot be obedient.

No, it is to prove we have failed to live up to Gods standard. and because of that, we are cursed. The panalty of sin is death..but it also teaches what must be done, and who did it.

So, what now? Now that it has completed its job, we are to resign ourselves to the fact that we are disobedient and just say, hell, I may as well continue to be disobedient since that is what I am.

You missed the rest of what it taught us, Lets get that settle first before we go here.

Therefore the purpose of the law is to show us we are disobedient so that we will accept that that is what we are and walk in disobedience ever after?

Now your just being sarcastic my friend. Once again lets go back to what the purpose of the law was. From this post, you do not yet understand it, or what I have said it is.

If we do not come to a knowledge there, there is no need to go further, becayse we are already starting off not understanding.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You can't do it without the Holy Spirit.

If we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

Not the letter (Galatians 6:13) but the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6).

You can;t do it my friend.

Unless you think you are sinless. You have failed to keep the law.

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

James said if we even stumble in one area we have failed to keep the law.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It is Christ's job to save us from our sins (Matthew 1:21).

Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20).

you did not read what I said.

Please try to keep up with me..

Christ did more than save us from our sins. If you think that is all he did. You are already in trouble