Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

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Heaven_Bound

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peldom10 said:
No....I am Hebrew Christian...not a Jew.
I can see you have a difficult time knowing the difference.
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You are like all Gentiles and Jews who have accepted Yeshua, G-R-A-F-T-E-D IN.

And the funny thing is, when Christ was on earth, He said He was here for His chosen People, Israel. The Jews, then, were descendants of the Ancient Hebrews, and actual Descendant of Jacob, Isaac, Abraham, and particular Abraham's Grandfather, Noah.
 
cv5

cv5

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Heaven_Bound said:
The issue is that Matthew 24 is in Chronological Order. It begins with Temple Destruction and Daniel 12's ending Daily Sacrifice. Then it goes into the specifics of the Attack in 70 A.D.. Then we get to false prophets and antichrists. Then the Tribulation and Second Coming. Then the setting of the Second coming. But people are flipping Verses 35 and on before 29-31. It's the only way to create this pre-trib rapture scheme. It just shows the desperation of those to make an attempt that from Matthew 24:1 to 24:51 is the Correct Order, but that would disprove their Secret coming Theory. And like most Theories (Scientific/Biblical) they end up as failures because it can be proven that it is out of Context and Chronological Order.
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Three questions are asked. Jesus answers the questions...but NOT in the order asked. Something to think about.
 
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Heaven_Bound

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cv5 said:
Three questions are asked. Jesus answers the questions...but NOT in the order asked. Something to think about.
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That is how you desire to view it, but He does answer them in order. Twisting the Order makes your myth that much more evident.
 
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peldom10

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Heaven_Bound said:
You are like all Gentiles and Jews who have accepted Yeshua, G-R-A-F-T-E-D IN.

And the funny thing is, when Christ was on earth, He said He was here for His chosen People, Israel. The Jews, then, were descendants of the Ancient Hebrews, and actual Descendant of Jacob, Isaac, Abraham, and particular Abraham's Grandfather, Noah.
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You are mixing Jew Hebrew OT and Jew Hebrew NT.
Needless discussion...end.
 
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Heaven_Bound

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peldom10 said:
You are mixing Jew Hebrew OT and Jew Hebrew NT.
Needless discussion...end.
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I've noticed in your other discussions that when proven incorrect, the conversation ends on your part.

Fact is, JESUS said, He was there for the Chosen People of His Day. They are both Old Testament and New Testament Jews. Anything before Christ and the Gospel and His Purpose for coming is still LAW. Anything afterwards is New Covenant.
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

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Heaven_Bound said:
I've noticed in your other discussions that when proven incorrect, the conversation ends on your part.

Fact is, JESUS said, He was there for the Chosen People of His Day. They are both Old Testament and New Testament Jews. Anything before Christ and the Gospel and His Purpose for coming is still LAW. Anything afterwards is New Covenant.
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From Moses to Christ is Law.
 
oyster67

oyster67

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While we are up there for 7 years, we participate in the Wedding. It is only then that we return back down with Him at His Second Coming:

Jackson123 said:
What verse support your statement?
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Revelation
19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

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oyster67 said:
While we are up there for 7 years, we participate in the Wedding. It is only then that we return back down with Him at His Second Coming
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Too bad people like the beheaded of Revelation 20, the 144k and the two witnesses miss out of this supposed wedding while they are the church on the Earth suffering through the Great Tribulation from satan, most of them being killed because they have the testimony of Christ.
 
cv5

cv5

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oyster67 said:
While we are up there for 7 years, we participate in the Wedding. It is only then that we return back down with Him at His Second Coming:



Revelation
19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
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It's my understanding that the "up there for seven years" = the seven day consummation ritual which occurs after the bridegroom snatches his betrothed and brings her to the father's house.

Jesus raptures His Bride, spending an intimate seven years with her while the tribulation judgments are raging on the earth.

It is only after these seven years that the SC occurs and the wedding SUPPER happens on the earth. Which is what is being portrayed in Revelation 19.....

Doctor Arnold Fruchtenbaum and Ariel Ministries does a good job explaining this. I definitely agree with Dr. Fruchtenbaum's exegesis of the rapture......It's pretty much perfection. Although I definitely do NOT agree with everything Ariel ministries has to say, a lot of it I do. And they have a lot of great background information on the Jewish feasts and Jewish Jewish wedding ceremony.
 
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lamad

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cv5 said:
...

It is only after these seven years that the SC occurs and the wedding SUPPER happens on the earth. Which is what is being portrayed in Revelation 19.....

...
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John shows us the week begins in chapter 8 with the 7th seal and 30 minutes of silence. He shows us the marriage AND supper will occur in heaven in chapter 19. WHY is the marriage and supper so late in Revelation?

I believe heaven waits for the resurrection of the Old Testament saints, who will be guests. Their resurrection will be "on the last day" when the 7th vial ends the week.

Why would you imagine the supper will be on earth? One earth will only be carnage left of the battle of Armageddon. Anyway, John shows Jesus on the white horse AFTER the supper.
 
cv5

cv5

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lamad said:
John shows us the week begins in chapter 8 with the 7th seal and 30 minutes of silence. He shows us the marriage AND supper will occur in heaven in chapter 19. WHY is the marriage and supper so late in Revelation?

I believe heaven waits for the resurrection of the Old Testament saints, who will be guests. Their resurrection will be "on the last day" when the 7th vial ends the week.

Why would you imagine the supper will be on earth? One earth will only be carnage left of the battle of Armageddon. Anyway, John shows Jesus on the white horse AFTER the supper.
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How in the world can "the week" beginning somewhere in the middle of Daniels 70th week?

The correct exegesis is that "the week" begins in Revelation chapter 5 when the Lamb takes the scroll from the Father.......and the seal judgments begin. The 24 elders (having already been raptured, now with Jesus in heaven) are undoubtedly identified as the Church, replete with crowns, thrones, white robes as kings and priests.

The "come up here"....."after these things" of Revelation 4:1 is symbolic of the rapture IMO.
 
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lamad

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ewq1938 said:
Too bad people like the beheaded of Revelation 20, the 144k and the two witnesses miss out of this supposed wedding while they are the church on the Earth suffering through the Great Tribulation from satan, most of them being killed because they have the testimony of Christ.
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They all had the same chances as the church to be born again - but they chose not to or to put it off. There are consequences to putting off a decision for Christ.
 
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lamad

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cv5 said:
How in the world can "the week" beginning somewhere in the middle of Daniels 70th week?

The correct exegesis is that "the week" begins in Revelation chapter 5 when the Lamb takes the scroll from the Father.......and the seal judgments begin. The 24 elders (having already been raptured, now with Jesus in heaven) are undoubtedly identified as the Church, replete with crowns, thrones, white robes as kings and priests.

The "come up here"....."after these things" of Revelation 4:1 is symbolic of the rapture IMO.
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It has always been a MYTH that the week will begin with the first seal. That is pulling the first seal out if its 32 AD context. The week has always been written to start with the 30 minutes of silence. The only problem has been people did not know. It's sort of like Martin Luther discovering salvation by faith alone - it was always there but people did not know.

You are mistaken: the scroll contains the week (it is written inside the scroll) but the scroll cannot be opened to reveal and begin the week until ALL SEALS are opened first.

No, Revelation 4:1 took place around 95 AD. It was about John. Paul teaches us that the rapture must come just before wrath, so just before the 6th seal.
 
cv5

cv5

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lamad said:
It has always been a MYTH that the week will begin with the first seal. That is pulling the first seal out if its 32 AD context. The week has always been written to start with the 30 minutes of silence. The only problem has been people did not know. It's sort of like Martin Luther discovering salvation by faith alone - it was always there but people did not know.

You are mistaken: the scroll contains the week (it is written inside the scroll) but the scroll cannot be opened to reveal and begin the week until ALL SEALS are opened first.

No, Revelation 4:1 took place around 95 AD. It was about John. Paul teaches us that the rapture must come just before wrath, so just before the 6th seal.
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Unbiblical rubbish.......sheer speculation.
 
cv5

cv5

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ewq1938 said:
Too bad people like the beheaded of Revelation 20, the 144k and the two witnesses miss out of this supposed wedding while they are the church on the Earth suffering through the Great Tribulation from satan, most of them being killed because they have the testimony of Christ.
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All of the elect attend the wedding SUPPER. Either as the Bride or as the wedding guests.

Of course the Bride attends her own wedding feast. No need to comment further.

The wedding supper GUESTS include OT saints, martyred resurrected tribulation saints, tribulation saint survivors, 144,000, and Israelites who survive the tribulation. A mixed multitude.
 
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Heaven_Bound

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cv5 said:
All of the elect attend the wedding SUPPER. Either as the Bride or as the wedding guests.

Of course the Bride attends her own wedding feast. No need to comment further.

The wedding supper GUESTS include OT saints, martyred resurrected tribulation saints, tribulation saint survivors, 144,000, and Israelites who survive the tribulation. A mixed multitude.
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If the Wedding Supper begins after the Rapture in pre-trib theory, how can the martyred from the Tribulation be guests?

You talk in so many circles, that even when you do apply truth, it's so far out of sequence you prove your own views to be incorrect.
 
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lamad

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Heaven_Bound said:
If the Wedding Supper begins after the Rapture in pre-trib theory, how can the martyred from the Tribulation be guests?

You talk in so many circles, that even when you do apply truth, it's so far out of sequence you prove your own views to be incorrect.
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The wedding AND supper will not begin until the timing of chapter 19, after the week has finished. That is scripture.
 
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lamad

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cv5 said:
Unbiblical rubbish.......sheer speculation.
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You don't know your bible very well!

Did you just overlook when Jesus got the book into His hands? It was just after He ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down. You are trying to ADD 2000 years to those verses. It is not there and was never meant to be there. The first seal was opened as soon as Jesus got the book. The fifth seal was opened in time for Stephen to be martyred. This is scripture rightly divided and correctly understood. You did so well on the other posts: I am surprised.
 
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