I am a Seventh Day Adventist, Ask Me.

[kinda]

Hi all. Can anyone answer this for me?
I just recently started reading the bible and I'm still figuring things out. And there's one verse that's been bugging me. It's this one:


Exodus 21:20-21
New International Version
“Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

How would you explain this? The slave died, does it matter if it's a day later?
Please be respectful in the comments. I came here to learn.

When we find a slave in Israel and he or she is beaten to death, we can get more clarity. Until than, we have Bible commentary that can help bring understanding. If you can click on the link there is more commentary. I hope this helps. What made you ask a question about this verse, rather than the others you think?

https://www.studylight.org/commentary/exodus/21-20.html

Concerning violence and injury (21:12-27)

"Death was the penalty for wilful murder, violence to parents and kidnapping for slavery. Israelite law did not allow the widespread ancient practice of a murderer trying to escape punishment by clinging to the horns of the altar and pleading for mercy. But cases of manslaughter were different. When the Israelites settled in their new homeland, they were to appoint certain places as cities of refuge, where a person guilty of manslaughter could find safety (12-17; Numbers 35:9-4.35.15; Deuteronomy 19:1-5.19.6).

A person had to pay compensation for injuries done to others, the amount paid depending on the nature of the injury and the loss or inconvenience it caused (18-19). A master could not treat a slave brutally and could not beat him to death. If he did, he was punished. If there was no proof that the slave’s death was the result of the beating, the master was not punished; but neither could he replace the slave. He had to bear the cost of the loss (20-21).
The basic principle of justice was ‘an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth’; that is, the punishment had to fit the crime. A heavy penalty was required for a major offence, a light penalty for a minor offence. This principle also restricted vengeance, as people often take revenge far in excess of the wrong done to them (22-25). If a slave suffered serious injury through cruel treatment, he was compensated by being freed unconditionally (26-27).

Jesus, in his reference to ‘an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth’ (see Matthew 5:38-40.5.42), did not contradict the principle of fair punishment for wrongdoing, a principle that is a basic element in civil government. Jesus was not laying down laws for civil administrators as was the case with Moses, but was reminding his disciples that they must not always stand on their rights. In personal relationships they must be guided by a spirit of forgiveness, self-denial and active love towards the offender. The spirit ruling in the hearts of Christians is not the same as that which rules in the code of legal justice."

 

[Combanitorics]

You can believe what you want, but do you have a Bible verse? It sounds like you don't.

Here is a link on Sabbaths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath

More evidence that the Catholic Church changed the sabbath to Sunday.

Seventh-day versus First-day
"Main articles: Sabbath in Christianity and Sabbath in seventh-day churches

In 321 AD, Roman emperor Constantine the Great enacted the first civil law regarding Sunday observance. The law did not mention the Sabbath by name, but referred to a day of rest on "the venerable day of the sun."

On the venerable day of the sun let the magistrate and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however, persons engaged in agricultural work may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain growing or for vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.[9]​

An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine:

Q. How prove you that the church hath power to command feasts and holy days? A. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church. Q. How prove you that? A. Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin; and by not keeping the rest [of the feasts] by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power.[10]
The Augsburg Confession:

They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord’s day, contrary to the decalogue, as it appears; neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the ten commandments.[11]
A Doctrinal Catechism,

Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept? A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.[12]
Catholic Christian:

Q. Has the [Catholic] church power to make any alterations in the commandments of God? A. ...Instead of the seventh day, and other festivals appointed by the old law, the church has prescribed the Sundays and holy days to be set apart for God’s worship; and these we are now obliged to keep in consequence of God’s commandment, instead of the ancient Sabbath.[13]
The Catechism of the Council of Trent:

The Church of God has thought it well to transfer the celebration and observance of the Sabbath to Sunday![14] New moon"

I believe that I have heard of that event before. I can't really understand why it's so important. I realize Rome was might in its heyday, but I still haven't completely picked up what it has to do with us. I know that Edward Gibbon wrote a book on decline and fall of the Roman Empire from London Parliament during the War of Independence, and I'm sure I have nothing against people reading old books by long dead Tories. Still, why is it important? Seriously, in real modern American English, using spiritual and theological terminology, why would an Italian law from the second century even matter?

 

[Combanitorics]

When we find a slave in Israel and he or she is beaten to death, we can get more clarity. Until than, we have Bible commentary that can help bring understanding. If you can click on the link there is more commentary. I hope this helps. What made you ask a question about this verse, rather than the others you think?

https://www.studylight.org/commentary/exodus/21-20.html

Concerning violence and injury (21:12-27)

"Death was the penalty for wilful murder, violence to parents and kidnapping for slavery. Israelite law did not allow the widespread ancient practice of a murderer trying to escape punishment by clinging to the horns of the altar and pleading for mercy. But cases of manslaughter were different. When the Israelites settled in their new homeland, they were to appoint certain places as cities of refuge, where a person guilty of manslaughter could find safety (12-17; Numbers 35:9-4.35.15; Deuteronomy 19:1-5.19.6).

A person had to pay compensation for injuries done to others, the amount paid depending on the nature of the injury and the loss or inconvenience it caused (18-19). A master could not treat a slave brutally and could not beat him to death. If he did, he was punished. If there was no proof that the slave’s death was the result of the beating, the master was not punished; but neither could he replace the slave. He had to bear the cost of the loss (20-21).
The basic principle of justice was ‘an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth’; that is, the punishment had to fit the crime. A heavy penalty was required for a major offence, a light penalty for a minor offence. This principle also restricted vengeance, as people often take revenge far in excess of the wrong done to them (22-25). If a slave suffered serious injury through cruel treatment, he was compensated by being freed unconditionally (26-27).

Jesus, in his reference to ‘an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth’ (see Matthew 5:38-40.5.42), did not contradict the principle of fair punishment for wrongdoing, a principle that is a basic element in civil government. Jesus was not laying down laws for civil administrators as was the case with Moses, but was reminding his disciples that they must not always stand on their rights. In personal relationships they must be guided by a spirit of forgiveness, self-denial and active love towards the offender. The spirit ruling in the hearts of Christians is not the same as that which rules in the code of legal justice."

While that's a fine example of a Bible study, I'd question you on a few things. First of all, the Israelite laws on slavery postdate the Ten Commandments at Mount Sinai, which postdate the crossing of the Red Sea. Any word on what a law might have been in Egypt, or whether Egypt had ever heard of one?

 

[kinda]

I believe that I have heard of that event before. I can't really understand why it's so important. I realize Rome was might in its heyday, but I still haven't completely picked up what it has to do with us. I know that Edward Gibbon wrote a book on decline and fall of the Roman Empire from London Parliament during the War of Independence, and I'm sure I have nothing against people reading old books by long dead Tories. Still, why is it important? Seriously, in real modern American English, using spiritual and theological terminology, why would an Italian law from the second century even matter?

Fourth sentence down in post says, "More evidence that the Catholic Church changed the sabbath to Sunday.".

This fact matters to Seventh Day Adventist, Protestants, and other religious sects trying to keep the Ten Commandments.

Maybe Catholics and religious people who observe the Vatican's law, don't really think it matters, because it's just part of their religion.

Is the Ten Commandments important to you? If it isn't, than it's probably not important to know about "Italian law from the second century".

 

[ZNP]

Fourth sentence down in post says, "More evidence that the Catholic Church changed the sabbath to Sunday.".

This fact matters to Seventh Day Adventist, Protestants, and other religious sects trying to keep the Ten Commandments.

Maybe Catholics and religious people who observe the Vatican's law, don't really think it matters, because it's just part of their religion.

Is the Ten Commandments important to you? If it isn't, than it's probably not important to know about "Italian law from the second century".

Of course the ten commandments are important to any believer, but it is a complete deceit to think that the Sabbath is "Saturday" that is false. The Sabbath is the 7th day, the first day is when you see the sliver of a New Moon. There is no "Sabbath" in the Gregorian or Julian calendar.

 

[kinda]

While that's a fine example of a Bible study, I'd question you on a few things. First of all, the Israelite laws on slavery postdate the Ten Commandments at Mount Sinai, which postdate the crossing of the Red Sea. Any word on what a law might have been in Egypt, or whether Egypt had ever heard of one?

To be honest, the person I replied to was a new believer, and was asking for help. This topic isn't really that practical for me, but if you feel like it's important (unlike Italian laws about the Sunday sabbath from the second century), could you please follow up with any other questions that Celyn might have? Thanks a bunch!

 

[ResidentAlien]

The biggest question I have for a Seventh Day Adventist is "Why do those people always seem to think that the world's biggest problem is the Roman Empire?" .

Here it is in a nutshell.

Seventh-day Adventists and other Saturday Sabbath keepers believe the 4th commandment about keeping the Saturday Sabbath is still in effect for all if they're true Christians. The Roman emperor Constantine made it illegal for anyone to keep the Jewish Sabbath on Saturday. From now on the "sabbath" would be on Sunday, the "venerable day of the sun." Well, this worked out pretty well until the reformation.

This new group of believers was no longer under the authority of Rome but kept the custom of Sunday out of choice, not compulsion. Besides, the Saturday Sabbath was given to the Jews so why should they be constrained by a Jewish law?

Then around the middle of the 19th century, certain people started preaching and teaching that the Saturday Sabbath was still in effect for everyone. Now, everyone who observed Sunday was guilty of breaking the true Sabbath. In their minds, even the protestants who were no longer under Rome's authority were guilty because they held onto pagan Romish customs and continued to observe the "venerable day of the Sun."

This is the very short of it. Modern Sabbatarians trace their beliefs and practices to the mid-19th century. Sure they'll tell you all kinds of wild stories with "proofs" that the Saturday Sabbath is still in effect for all, but this is nonsense. This is nothing more than the kind of Judaizing that was going on in Paul's day. Even if you're not Catholic they will say you're following Catholic law by observing the Lord's day on Sunday. It's a sad attempt to control people; but they're desperate so they grasp at anything.

 

[ZNP]

Then around the middle of the 19th century, certain people started preaching and teaching that the Saturday Sabbath was still in effect for everyone. Now, everyone who observed Sunday was guilty of breaking the true Sabbath. .

Saturday is not the "true Sabbath."

If someone wants to be absolute for the word of God I am fine with that, go for it. But claiming Saturday is the "true Sabbath" is like telling people we need to have our money back on the gold standard and then using fool's gold rather than real gold.

If you want to keep the Sabbath you have to keep the Hebrew calendar in which every month begins with the New Moon.

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

Did you see my post that recommended you to start your own thread? Here was your response, just for a reminder.

I thought the topic was the Sabbath so I said what I said and that's why I said I didn't need to make a new thread.

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

I can understand your point, but "evening" does not necessarily require a preceding period of light. In this case, God may well have meant the period before He created light as "evening". For Matthew 28:1, your translation says, "at the end of the Sabbath"; the NIV (along with most English translations) says, "after the Sabbath". The meanings are related, but different.

Right but its in verse three already so its there that there was daytime before evening

 

[Combanitorics]

Fourth sentence down in post says, "More evidence that the Catholic Church changed the sabbath to Sunday.".

This fact matters to Seventh Day Adventist, Protestants, and other religious sects trying to keep the Ten Commandments.

Maybe Catholics and religious people who observe the Vatican's law, don't really think it matters, because it's just part of their religion.

Is the Ten Commandments important to you? If it isn't, than it's probably not important to know about "Italian law from the second century".

Sure. What does the fourth commandment to rest on the sabbath have to do with the fact that the Egyptians who held the Israelites as slaves "made them to serve with rigor" and didn't give them any rest? What does Constantine also mandating a day of rest but on the first day of the week have to do with his anti-Saturnalia bias as a Roman? Remember the fact that Sturn was an Egyptian "god" and that we still call the seventh day of the week Saturday on NIST Calanders.

It appears that the Hebrews changed the Egyptian day of Saturn to Sabbath on the same day, while the Romans, who were Sun worshipers, later installed a similar but later dated service on the day of their own "planet".

 

[tourist]

I suppose I derailed the thread

Derails happen to the best of threads. They tend to spice things up and keep things flowing.

 

[Dino246]

Right but its in verse three already so its there that there was daytime before evening

The evening after Day 1 was the starting of the second day.

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

The evening after Day 1 was the starting of the second day.

You forget that it says...then came evening and morning, the first day lol

 

[Dino246]

You forget that it says...then came evening and morning, the first day lol

I didn't forget anything. There was darkness (evening) before God created light (morning).

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

 

[Faithiskey1]

God told Moses the Israelites were a stiff necked heathen people who would desert him once they reached the promised land. It is no surprise that God gave such people a command to set aside a particular day to contemplate, and meditate on His goodness to them.
However, under the new covenant God and His Son dwell in us through the Spirit. The born again believer contemplates upon God seven days a week and His goodness to them, including Saturday. For their hearts have been softened. Christ dwells in them and they are grateful every day of the week for what God has done for them through His Son, and they thank and praise Him for it. The spiritual intent of the fourth commandment is upheld in born again believers every day, including Saturday. But if you focus on the letter, you would see it differently

 

[kinda]

I would say, The Ten Commandments are very important to God. If they are important to God, than they should be very important to people, who believe in God.

Why do I say this?

The Ten Commandments were literally written by God on stone. The Ten Commandments were kept in a golden box called, The Ark of the Covenant. The Ark of the Covenant was placed in the Holy of Holies. The Holy of Holies was in the inner sanctuary of the Soloman's Temple, where God's Spirit lived. Soloman's Temple was sanctioned by God in the Bible. To me this shows, that The Ten Commandments are extremely important to God.

Here are The Ten Commandments.

20 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 20&version=KJV

 

[ZNP]

I would say, The Ten Commandments are very important to God. If they are important to God, than they should be very important to people, who believe in God.

Why do I say this?

The Ten Commandments were literally written by God on stone. The Ten Commandments were kept in a golden box called, The Ark of the Covenant. The Ark of the Covenant was placed in the Holy of Holies. The Holy of Holies was in the inner sanctuary of the Soloman's Temple, where God's Spirit lived. Soloman's Temple was sanctioned by God in the Bible. To me this shows, that The Ten Commandments are extremely important to God.

Here are The Ten Commandments.

20 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 20&version=KJV

I agree and although the NT doesn't tell us to keep the Sabbath it also doesn't dissuade us from doing that either.

I just wonder how do the Seventh Day adventists keep the seventh day?

 

[Faithiskey1]

In all sincerity, I cannot understand why many are so fixated with ‘’the ten commandments’’ as it were. That term speaks of an external law engraved in stone. The new covenant is very different to that. The core foundation upon which the new covenant stands is twofold, there is no new covenant without both:



This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[b]

17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.

Heb10:16&17



Note which comes first. The law God wants you to follow is written in your mind once you come into the covenant. In other words, you instinctively in your mind know the basics of how God wants you to live. So you don’t need to fixate on an external written down law do you. If something is in my mind, I don’t have to read up, focus on something external to me and look to it, so I may try to follow it. The law is also in your heart. Meaning, in your heart you want to live as God desires you to live. Some say if you remove righteousness of obeying the law, you give a believer a licence to sin. That is utterly impossible for the born again Christian who has the law in their heart and mind. For though righteousness of obeying the law is removed, you in your heart, still want to follow what has been placed there. I believe I am righteous, from first to last by faith in Christ, not obeying the law, but at the same time, I could never believe that gives me a licence to live as I like. And when we fail, as we all do, our conscience will be seered, and we will have no rest and no peace until we come before your heavenly Father and tell him we are sorry for our folly, only then will we get your peace back.

The penalty of sin was removed, for Christ died for our sins, but you only get a saviour from sin, because the holy, just and righteous law God wants you to follow are now a part of the person you are. And they will never be removed form your most inward parts. And in that fact a licence to sin is removed from the born again believer, in whom dwells the Holy Spirit. God is not stupid, he made a perfect covenant, there are no holes in it

People who insist you must obey the ten commandments if you want to attain to heaven should consider Matthew7:2

The measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you.



Paul said the ten commandments are the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation. If anyone thinks they fully obey the letter of the ten commandments they do not understand what that letter demands

 

[VineyardsOfEngedi]

I agree and although the NT doesn't tell us to keep the Sabbath it also doesn't dissuade us from doing that either.

I just wonder how do the Seventh Day adventists keep the seventh day?

They keep it from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset, ideally do not cook, buy or sell during this time. They meet at church on Saturday morning have Sabbath school usually @ 9:30am then service at 11am - 12:30pm / 1 pm depending on who's preaching. Have vegetarian potluck at least before c19 hit. Also before c19 they meet in the afternoon at church for AY to close the Sabbath.