Does 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 Teach Jesus Will Return With Dead Saints Now With Him In Heaven?
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That's Paganism 101, and completely distorts Genesis 2:7 KJV, which says the Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life. You've believed the lie of Satan for so long, he's blinded you not only to the truth, but also handicapped your reading comprehension skills.
Why did Paul not want to be "naked" and "unclothed" without a body if what you call his "soul" went straight to heaven regardless of being clothed or naked????
Why was it such a big deal to Paul that we should not be found naked, but the idea excites you like a lifetime member of Big Bubba's Bare Butt Beach Resort????
Where did I call John that?
ole lot of Scripture.
Solomon says the dead "know not anything" which proves Jesus' story in Luke 16 is a parable which needs interpretation.
You'd be surprised how many people are abandoning the Papal Antichrist and apostate protestantism and coming into fellowship with the truth, friend. Why don't you join us?
Let's recap:
Why did Paul not want to be "naked" and "unclothed" without a body if what you call his "soul" went straight to heaven regardless of being clothed or naked????
Why was it such a big deal to Paul that we should not be found naked, but the idea excites you like a lifetime member of Big Bubba's Bare Butt Beach Resort????
Because he knew were he without a body, he wouldn't be found anywhere
but lying in the grave awaiting the new body!!
Because I can read Genesis 2:7 KJV with an above 6th grade education. It plainly says the Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life.but lying in the grave awaiting the new body!!
Where did I call John that?
ole lot of Scripture.
Solomon says the dead "know not anything" which proves Jesus' story in Luke 16 is a parable which needs interpretation.
You'd be surprised how many people are abandoning the Papal Antichrist and apostate protestantism and coming into fellowship with the truth, friend. Why don't you join us?
Let's recap:
- I said the Soul and the Spirit are two separate and distinct things
- You said Jesus' soul and spirit both went to Paradise.
- I said, no, His spirit went up but His soul went down, proving the two are not the same
- In light of this, you should probably abandon your beliefs now and avoid the rush at doomsday
OK, I'll break down Genesis 2:7 in an easy to follow numeric order:
1) God formed man from the dust of the ground (Body)
2) breathed into his nostrils the Breath aka Spirit of Life (which is not the Soul, for the Soul doesn't exist yet)
3) and man became a living Soul (ahhhh, the Soul now commences existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and Breath)
Now, really, friend, I can't make it any more clear than that. If you still don't get it, it's all good. You chose to believe the lie of the Serpent and now he's taking full advantage of your choice.
1) God formed man from the dust of the ground (Body)
2) breathed into his nostrils the Breath aka Spirit of Life (which is not the Soul, for the Soul doesn't exist yet)
3) and man became a living Soul (ahhhh, the Soul now commences existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and Breath)
Now, really, friend, I can't make it any more clear than that. If you still don't get it, it's all good. You chose to believe the lie of the Serpent and now he's taking full advantage of your choice.
Bro, I'm being serious! You have no business discussing this topic if you don't even know where the Bible speaks of Jesus' spirit ascending up and His soul descending down, right?
You don't need to memorize! Just read the passages! Here:
Luke 23:46 KJV "...into Thy hands I commend My spirit." (Jesus' spirit went UP)
Acts 2:31 KJV "...that His soul was not left in hell, neither did His flesh see corruption". (His "soul" went DOWN into the grave)
ARE YOU STILL GOING TO INSIST THE SOUL AND SPIRIT ARE "INTERCHANGABLY AND THE SAME THING"???
You don't need to memorize! Just read the passages! Here:
Luke 23:46 KJV "...into Thy hands I commend My spirit." (Jesus' spirit went UP)
Acts 2:31 KJV "...that His soul was not left in hell, neither did His flesh see corruption". (His "soul" went DOWN into the grave)
ARE YOU STILL GOING TO INSIST THE SOUL AND SPIRIT ARE "INTERCHANGABLY AND THE SAME THING"???
No, you are the distorter of Scripture.
Please stop saying what isn't true. There is nothing a soul oming into existence as a consequence of union of body and breath of life.
The Bible says "man became a living being". That is the result of the breath of life, which IS the soul, whether you agree or not, and body.
This sentence directly applies to yourself.
I've already explained and answered this.
If you can, why don't you?
Even 5th graders know better.
John described souls shouting in heaven, and you dismiss it.
John wrote the opposite. They KNEW that revenge was coming and were asking WHEN. So they DO know things.
Well, then, let Jesus do it. You're surely NOT qualified to explain ANY of His parables.
Oh wait. Jesus didn't even try to explain the story. Because it wasn't a parable.
As much false doctrine as you have been spewing, I'd never join such a group.
Please stop saying what isn't true. There is nothing a soul oming into existence as a consequence of union of body and breath of life.
The Bible says "man became a living being". That is the result of the breath of life, which IS the soul, whether you agree or not, and body.
This sentence directly applies to yourself.
I've already explained and answered this.
If you can, why don't you?
Even 5th graders know better.
John described souls shouting in heaven, and you dismiss it.
John wrote the opposite. They KNEW that revenge was coming and were asking WHEN. So they DO know things.
Well, then, let Jesus do it. You're surely NOT qualified to explain ANY of His parables.
Oh wait. Jesus didn't even try to explain the story. Because it wasn't a parable.
As much false doctrine as you have been spewing, I'd never join such a group.
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And this is what you have NEVER proved. All you have is your opinions. God gave the body a soul and "man became living being.
nephesh: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
Original Word: נֶפֶשׁ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: nephesh
Phonetic Spelling: (neh'-fesh)
Definition: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
Those are the range of meanings. Not just "soul", as you try to force it.
When the soul entered the body, the body became a living being. When the person dies, the soul leaves the body.
nephesh: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
Original Word: נֶפֶשׁ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: nephesh
Phonetic Spelling: (neh'-fesh)
Definition: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
Those are the range of meanings. Not just "soul", as you try to force it.
When the soul entered the body, the body became a living being. When the person dies, the soul leaves the body.
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OK, here is just another example of your very poor discernment and reading skills.
To say "into your hands" Jesus meant that He was submitting to God's PLAN for Him. It says NOTHING about "going UP". You just love to add to the Bible. Adding things the Bible DOESN'T say.
Explain why Jesus went to hell. For what purpose, if not for sleeping.
If you would only read carefully and then remember what you read, you'd already have your answer. I SAID the soul and spirit can sometimes be interchanged. That's all.
I absolutely believe that the human spirit is what died "that day" when Adam rebelled and ate the fruit. Because God said he would.
What died wasn't his body, since his body continued to live for many hundreds of years. When Jesus told the woman at the well those who worship God must worship Him "in spirit and in truth", do you have any idea what Jesus was telling her?
To say "into your hands" Jesus meant that He was submitting to God's PLAN for Him. It says NOTHING about "going UP". You just love to add to the Bible. Adding things the Bible DOESN'T say.
Explain why Jesus went to hell. For what purpose, if not for sleeping.
If you would only read carefully and then remember what you read, you'd already have your answer. I SAID the soul and spirit can sometimes be interchanged. That's all.
I absolutely believe that the human spirit is what died "that day" when Adam rebelled and ate the fruit. Because God said he would.
What died wasn't his body, since his body continued to live for many hundreds of years. When Jesus told the woman at the well those who worship God must worship Him "in spirit and in truth", do you have any idea what Jesus was telling her?
Which proves that they are two separate places. Clearly you are the one confused here. You are further confused when you try to invent a new place called "torments". There is only Hades where the torment happens, and Abraham's bosom also known as Paradise. Two separated places with that gulf inbetween.
FreeGrace2 said:
Jesus was referring to the place where all OT believers went at death, Paradise. Paradise, also known as Abraham's bosom, is in Hades, a compartment different than Torments, where all the unsaved in the OT went, and still go to when they die.
Well, it IS correct. You are confused. Luke 16 gives us the account of Abraham's bosom, where Abraham was. The rich man in torments was unable to get to Abraham due to a great gulf between them.
Huh? I didn't prove they are separate. There are 2 names for the same place. Haven't you read up on what scholars say about the 2 names? Well, you should.
Said the confused one.
No. It's not a new place, as you opine. It is where all unbelievers go at physical death. Since Jesus showed that those in that place are in torment, it is natural to call it "torments". But I don't care about your nit-picky ways. Call it whatever you want. The point is that Jesus contrasted where Lazarus was and where the rich man was. Both are said to be in Hades. Lazarus is in Paradise, which is also called Abraham's bosom. The rich man was in torments. Take it as you will.
Again, wrong. Abraham's bosom is in Hades.
Acts 2-
30 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins he would set one upon his throne;
31 he foreseeing this spake of the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he left unto Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
So explain why Jesus went to Hades, if that is a place only of torment.
Jesus was referring to the place where all OT believers went at death, Paradise. Paradise, also known as Abraham's bosom, is in Hades, a compartment different than Torments, where all the unsaved in the OT went, and still go to when they die.
Well, it IS correct. You are confused. Luke 16 gives us the account of Abraham's bosom, where Abraham was. The rich man in torments was unable to get to Abraham due to a great gulf between them.
Huh? I didn't prove they are separate. There are 2 names for the same place. Haven't you read up on what scholars say about the 2 names? Well, you should.
Said the confused one.
No. It's not a new place, as you opine. It is where all unbelievers go at physical death. Since Jesus showed that those in that place are in torment, it is natural to call it "torments". But I don't care about your nit-picky ways. Call it whatever you want. The point is that Jesus contrasted where Lazarus was and where the rich man was. Both are said to be in Hades. Lazarus is in Paradise, which is also called Abraham's bosom. The rich man was in torments. Take it as you will.
Again, wrong. Abraham's bosom is in Hades.
Acts 2-
30 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins he would set one upon his throne;
31 he foreseeing this spake of the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he left unto Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
So explain why Jesus went to Hades, if that is a place only of torment.
No, it is not. Scripture is clear on this.
Luk 16:23 And in HADES he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham AFAR OFF, and Lazarus in his BOSOM.
How can you get this so wrong? It's VERY clear hades is a different place than the bosom and the bosom is quite obviously NOT in hades. Sheesh man, you are reading this as badly as pretribbers read the rapture scriptures.
FreeGrace2 said:
Again, wrong. Abraham's bosom is in Hades.
In order for the rich man to SEE Abraham, he had to be WHERE Abraham was. So what if there was a gulf between them, and "afar off", which neither YOU nor I have any idea the distance.
They were in the same place with a great gulf between them. This is not difficult.
No, it's very clear that they are the same place, with a great gulf between them.
Again, wrong. Abraham's bosom is in Hades.
In order for the rich man to SEE Abraham, he had to be WHERE Abraham was. So what if there was a gulf between them, and "afar off", which neither YOU nor I have any idea the distance.
They were in the same place with a great gulf between them. This is not difficult.
No, it's very clear that they are the same place, with a great gulf between them.
Why do you guys always use some other Bible every time? You switch back and forth to try and prove a point, which makes me shake my head tbh, just post from one bible like the KJV or whatever and stick with it. Most people who can't understand the KJV, I then just post from the Holman version for their benefit, but I personally have no problem understanding the KJV because the Holy Spirit gives the unction unto me.
J.B. Phillips New Testament? Really?
(KJV here on)
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech(To ask someone urgently) you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come(DOTL), except there come a falling away(Departure) [of the Church] first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Now let me explain what should be easy, except you guys have an agenda that has grown tunnel vision.
We ask you brothers URGENTLY (we Beseech you) BECAUSE OF (By) the coming of Jesus AND our Gathering unto him(soon to come Rapture), that you DO NOT FEAR that you are in the Lord God's Wrath(DOTL) as some have falsely told you that you were now in the day of the Lord (Christ).
Hey, don't let ANYONE DECIEVE YOU, for THAT DAY (DOTL) can not come except there come a DEPARTURE FIRST [of the Church, things we can clearly see, later on in this passage, that Paul had already told them about, thus he has no need to place the word Body/Church in the sentence ABOVE, THEY KNEW he was speaking about the Church Departing] AND the Man of Sin also has to show up also, BOTH THINGS must happen, before those who are on this earth can be in the Day of God's Wrath, so STOP WORRYING !! Do not Fear !!
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
So, after being told in verses 1-3 to STOP FRETTING that they were in the DOTL (God's Wrath) and that that could not happen until the DEPARTURE (thus thee was no need to fear because we will NOT BE HERE) of the Church AND this Anti-Christ figure also has to appear, BOTH BEFORE the DOTL Gods Wrath falls on this earth/mankind. The one who opposes every thing that is of God.
Don't you REMEMBER that I told you about these things (The Rapture/Departure of the Church) when I was with you before? and (KEY)...............NOW you know (1)what WITHHOLDS (the Anti-Christ) that he might only be revealed (come to power) at his proper time, the time appointed of course by God Almighty.
So, now you know WHAT WITHHOLDS !! Well what is it that withholds? What stops the Anti-Christ from showing up? (1)The Church whom the Holy Spirt works through, thus after we are GATHERED UNTO Christ, as the first verse references, the Man of Sin can only then come to power. The Holy Spirit is not going anywhere !! We see him throughout the book of Revelation, saving men, and we also see the Two-witnesses preforming miracles which come from the Holy Spirit. You guys get all turned around, so badly so you can't even understand the KJV, that is a HUGE TELL, God can reveal all this unto us with any bible. But we are looking at the J.B. Phillips version COME ON !!
Is the Falling Away a False Teaching?
I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the True Church can “Fall Away”, either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.
“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a “Falling Away” from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.
Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”
The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).
This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”
They were as follows:
1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)
2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)
3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)
4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)
5. The Great Bible (1540)
6. The Beeches Bible (1576)
7. The Geneva Bible (1608)
Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500s — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.
One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:
Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.
In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”
And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.
I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that had been around for 1500 some odd years in the 1611 translation.
J.B. Phillips New Testament? Really?
(KJV here on)
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech(To ask someone urgently) you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come(DOTL), except there come a falling away(Departure) [of the Church] first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Now let me explain what should be easy, except you guys have an agenda that has grown tunnel vision.
We ask you brothers URGENTLY (we Beseech you) BECAUSE OF (By) the coming of Jesus AND our Gathering unto him(soon to come Rapture), that you DO NOT FEAR that you are in the Lord God's Wrath(DOTL) as some have falsely told you that you were now in the day of the Lord (Christ).
Hey, don't let ANYONE DECIEVE YOU, for THAT DAY (DOTL) can not come except there come a DEPARTURE FIRST [of the Church, things we can clearly see, later on in this passage, that Paul had already told them about, thus he has no need to place the word Body/Church in the sentence ABOVE, THEY KNEW he was speaking about the Church Departing] AND the Man of Sin also has to show up also, BOTH THINGS must happen, before those who are on this earth can be in the Day of God's Wrath, so STOP WORRYING !! Do not Fear !!
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
So, after being told in verses 1-3 to STOP FRETTING that they were in the DOTL (God's Wrath) and that that could not happen until the DEPARTURE (thus thee was no need to fear because we will NOT BE HERE) of the Church AND this Anti-Christ figure also has to appear, BOTH BEFORE the DOTL Gods Wrath falls on this earth/mankind. The one who opposes every thing that is of God.
Don't you REMEMBER that I told you about these things (The Rapture/Departure of the Church) when I was with you before? and (KEY)...............NOW you know (1)what WITHHOLDS (the Anti-Christ) that he might only be revealed (come to power) at his proper time, the time appointed of course by God Almighty.
So, now you know WHAT WITHHOLDS !! Well what is it that withholds? What stops the Anti-Christ from showing up? (1)The Church whom the Holy Spirt works through, thus after we are GATHERED UNTO Christ, as the first verse references, the Man of Sin can only then come to power. The Holy Spirit is not going anywhere !! We see him throughout the book of Revelation, saving men, and we also see the Two-witnesses preforming miracles which come from the Holy Spirit. You guys get all turned around, so badly so you can't even understand the KJV, that is a HUGE TELL, God can reveal all this unto us with any bible. But we are looking at the J.B. Phillips version COME ON !!
Is the Falling Away a False Teaching?
I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the True Church can “Fall Away”, either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.
“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a “Falling Away” from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.
Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”
The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).
This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”
They were as follows:
1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)
2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)
3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)
4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)
5. The Great Bible (1540)
6. The Beeches Bible (1576)
7. The Geneva Bible (1608)
Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500s — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.
One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:
Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.
In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”
And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.
I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that had been around for 1500 some odd years in the 1611 translation.
I must disagree, with a few things.
You ADDED (for whatever reason, maybe a doctrine of man) "at the end of the world".
Verse 3 will show the error of naked and unclothed and the meaning you state as being false
And 'we can't be up in heaven' would mean ALL THOSE ASLEEP would be PERISHED. Some how you got that all twisted about.
GREEK
1 We know for that if earthly of us house, the tent, should be destroyed, a building from God we have, not made with hands, eternal in the heavens
NO MENTION OF ANY 'END OF THE WORLD RESURRECTION'
2 And indeed in this we groan the dwelling of us which from heaven to be clothed with longing
3 if indeed also having been clothed, not naked we will be found
4 And for being in the tent we groan being burdened because that not we do wish to be unclothed but to be clothed that may be swallowed up the mortal BY LIFE
5 The [One] now having prepared us for very this [is] God having given to us the pledge of the Spirit
6 being confident therefore always and knowing that being at home in the body we are absent from the Lord
7 by faith for we walk not by sight
8 We are confident now and are pleased rather to be absent out of the body and to be at home with the Lord
9 Therefore also we are ambitious whether being at home or being away well pleasing to Him to be
10 For all of us to be revealed it behooves before the judgment seat of Christ that may receive back each the things in in the body according to what he did whether good or evil.
NO TIMING OF A RESURRECTION IS STATED ANYWHERE
We long to be clothed from heaven
1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say How are the dead raised up and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool that which thou sowest is not quickened except it die
37 And that which thou sowest thou sowest not that body that shall be but bare grain it may chance of wheat or of some other grain
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
How do you take away a body that GOD GIVES?
YOU SAY PAUL SAYS THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN UNTIL THE LAST TRUMP BUT THAT ISN'T WHAT PAUL SAYS. HERE IS WHAT PAUL SAYS
LET'S SEE IF WE CAN STAY ON THE STRAIGHT PATH AND NOT MAKE IT CROOKED AGAIN
1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption it is raised in incorruption
43 It is sown in dishonour it is raised in glory it is sown in weakness it is raised in power
44 It is sown a natural body it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written The first man Adam was made a living soul the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual but that which is natural and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth earthy the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy such are they also that are earthy and as is the heavenly such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy we shall also bear the image of the heavenly
50 Now this I say brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE FIRST 50 VERSES, NOT ONCE HAS THE END OF age WITH RESPECTS TO A RESURRECTION, THE LAST DAY, A RESURRECTION OF A LAST DAY.
WHAT HAPPENS AT DEATH. What kinds of bodies there are. What bodies are raised etc. Like the everyday happenings of live and death and what goes on..
THEN we finally come to this verse.
And THIS IS ABOUT THE LAST DAY. This is about when Christ returns. This is what happens on the last day. This doesn't have anything to do with the rest of time...
Because when Christ returns there will be all those who overcame, endured to the end, remained faithful, didn't take the mark of the beast (along with all those who did of course) and what does Paul say?
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Not everyone will DIE, but EVERYONE WILL HAVE A CHANGE. Be it going from alive to dead to 'risen dead' or 'alive and remaining and changed' ALL WILL CHANGE.
HOW long does it take? THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE.
GET THAT? It takes no longer than the twinkling of an eye to go from being in an earthy flesh body to a heavenly spiritaul body. Do you know why it doesn't take any longer than that?
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
SO you see, THIS LAST DAY RESURRECTION IS FOR THE DEAD AND THE ALIVE AND REMAINING and not anyone who was saved before that day as THEY RISE, LIKE CHRIST ROSE
THAT IS WHAT IS WRITTEN. It doesn't even resemble what you said.
You ADDED (for whatever reason, maybe a doctrine of man) "at the end of the world".
Verse 3 will show the error of naked and unclothed and the meaning you state as being false
And 'we can't be up in heaven' would mean ALL THOSE ASLEEP would be PERISHED. Some how you got that all twisted about.
GREEK
1 We know for that if earthly of us house, the tent, should be destroyed, a building from God we have, not made with hands, eternal in the heavens
NO MENTION OF ANY 'END OF THE WORLD RESURRECTION'
2 And indeed in this we groan the dwelling of us which from heaven to be clothed with longing
3 if indeed also having been clothed, not naked we will be found
4 And for being in the tent we groan being burdened because that not we do wish to be unclothed but to be clothed that may be swallowed up the mortal BY LIFE
5 The [One] now having prepared us for very this [is] God having given to us the pledge of the Spirit
6 being confident therefore always and knowing that being at home in the body we are absent from the Lord
7 by faith for we walk not by sight
8 We are confident now and are pleased rather to be absent out of the body and to be at home with the Lord
9 Therefore also we are ambitious whether being at home or being away well pleasing to Him to be
10 For all of us to be revealed it behooves before the judgment seat of Christ that may receive back each the things in in the body according to what he did whether good or evil.
NO TIMING OF A RESURRECTION IS STATED ANYWHERE
We long to be clothed from heaven
1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say How are the dead raised up and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool that which thou sowest is not quickened except it die
37 And that which thou sowest thou sowest not that body that shall be but bare grain it may chance of wheat or of some other grain
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
How do you take away a body that GOD GIVES?
YOU SAY PAUL SAYS THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN UNTIL THE LAST TRUMP BUT THAT ISN'T WHAT PAUL SAYS. HERE IS WHAT PAUL SAYS
LET'S SEE IF WE CAN STAY ON THE STRAIGHT PATH AND NOT MAKE IT CROOKED AGAIN
1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption it is raised in incorruption
43 It is sown in dishonour it is raised in glory it is sown in weakness it is raised in power
44 It is sown a natural body it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written The first man Adam was made a living soul the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual but that which is natural and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth earthy the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy such are they also that are earthy and as is the heavenly such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy we shall also bear the image of the heavenly
50 Now this I say brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE FIRST 50 VERSES, NOT ONCE HAS THE END OF age WITH RESPECTS TO A RESURRECTION, THE LAST DAY, A RESURRECTION OF A LAST DAY.
WHAT HAPPENS AT DEATH. What kinds of bodies there are. What bodies are raised etc. Like the everyday happenings of live and death and what goes on..
THEN we finally come to this verse.
And THIS IS ABOUT THE LAST DAY. This is about when Christ returns. This is what happens on the last day. This doesn't have anything to do with the rest of time...
Because when Christ returns there will be all those who overcame, endured to the end, remained faithful, didn't take the mark of the beast (along with all those who did of course) and what does Paul say?
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Not everyone will DIE, but EVERYONE WILL HAVE A CHANGE. Be it going from alive to dead to 'risen dead' or 'alive and remaining and changed' ALL WILL CHANGE.
HOW long does it take? THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE.
GET THAT? It takes no longer than the twinkling of an eye to go from being in an earthy flesh body to a heavenly spiritaul body. Do you know why it doesn't take any longer than that?
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
SO you see, THIS LAST DAY RESURRECTION IS FOR THE DEAD AND THE ALIVE AND REMAINING and not anyone who was saved before that day as THEY RISE, LIKE CHRIST ROSE
THAT IS WHAT IS WRITTEN. It doesn't even resemble what you said.