None of that is biblical except that he saw something. There's no mocking or sin attributed to Ham in the passage. None.
Ham
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None of that is biblical except that he saw something. There's no mocking or sin attributed to Ham in the passage. None.
No, you have. You are inventing that Ham did something wrong when he didn't. He isn't cursed, blamed or yelled at one time because he didn't do anything wrong, but Canaan sure did. Stop adding to the text.
And exactly where in scripture does it say that Canaan did something?
I'm peeing my pants here.
Noah cursing him means he is the one who did something wrong.
That's vulgar and immature. Are you a child?
So exactly what did the earth do to get cursed?
And I'm entering my second childhood...
Especially as you make less and less sense the more you talk.
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it’s all this guy does comes out with all his ideas and says no one gets it but him I wouldn’t take it personally he’s one of those folks who already knows everything that can be known so it’s hard to discuss but the criticism is on par with his time here sort of his goal
it’s all this guy does comes out with all his ideas and says no one gets it but him I wouldn’t take it personally he’s one of those folks who already knows everything that can be known so it’s hard to discuss but the criticism is on par with his time here sort of his goal
Its kinda odd how he just doesn't understand scripture...
Adam sins and the Earth is cursed.
Cain kills Abel and Abel isn't allowed to farm anymore BUT if anyone kills Cain they are cursed.
So Ham sees his father's nakedness and Canaan is cursed...
There's a theme here...
We commit the sins and everyone we love and everything we like around us pays the price. That's the insidious nature of sin.
Actions have consequences...and usually not the consequences we want. But God exercises his mercy and grace and loving kindness.
Interesting, why do you think that is? I just read about how Jacob was concerned about being cursed for deceiving his father and Rebekah his mother said let it fall on me? Why did she push him to deceive his father I mean yes I know that she was told the older would serve the younger but why should it have been through deceit?
No, that is not what happened in any of those examples. Earth was not cursed, no one was cursed by the murder Cain committed, and Canaan was cursed by his own sinful action.
That applies to you not me.
yeah I think all of us have a lot to learn honestly myself included. That’s just my own view. But sometimes others feel as if they have nothing to learn whe usually those are the most obvious ones who need to change course
Because she didn't want to see Esau become leadership of the family.
In a patriarchal household the Patriarch was the leader whose responsibility was taking care of everyone. Esau kept on going out and having fun. Hunting parties were just that...parties. All about goofing off and having fun. And she didn't think that Esau was going to settle down and be proper leadership for the family.
She actually was looking out for everyone...but she still didn't get her way. Jacob had to leave and Esau remained in charge.
There were two things...the Birthright and the blessing. The birthright was the power to lead and the blessing was the money required to lead...but in this case the blessing also came with the lineage of Christ. Esau sold the right to lead. The thinking being that Esau didn't care if Jacob made him rich. But the people in their care did....there were a lot of servants and families that depended on them. (Spice trade and flocks don't run themselves)
Also...
This is the result of "helping God" when HE didn't ask or make it apparent that you may help. (Service is a privilege)
Also this is only one generation past Abraham. The knowledge of God is slipping away. Abraham was God's friend. Isaac had favored status but didn't really know God. His two sons (and wife) knew even less. You can't do evil and expect something good as a result.
We know seeing nakedness is the realization of sinfulness (Gen.3:7).Did Ham, Noah's son, sleep with his wife? Yes a bit controversial but genuine questionWhy did Noah curse Ham's son Canaan?
Ham told his brothers about his fathers' sinfulness. That's all.
It's important for us not to gossip about others, seeing we are all in need of mercy. Noah cursed the one who would follow in his fathers' footsteps.
Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and went backward and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father’s nakedness. Gen.9:23
love covereth all sins. Pro.10:12
Now see! This is NOT going beyond what scripture says. It doesn't make fanciful tales. It's logical and well reasoned.
Honor your Father and mother....(especially when they just got finished saving you from a flood nobody knew about except your father by means of his relationship with God)
Not disparage them to your siblings...
Ham saw his father's nakedness, and told his brethren. He fell short (sinned) of his father's expectations, if not also God's.
Genesis 9:21-27
21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
Why do you say hunting parties were parties? and why in this case the blessing also came with the lineage of Christ? I read something interesting that Esau was going to break Jacobs yoke eventually and would no longer be under him.
I get amused reading so many different views and they could all very well be valid. I like that ... realization of sinfulness... so what would have been Noah's sin?
Firstly, Noah was in sin because he got drunk and that left his wife vulnerable. Ham did nothing wrong, and sought help from his brothers which they did, and Canaan was cursed because he is clearly the one who was guilty.
How quickly the knowledge of God was slipping away. And in this context what do you mean by service is a privilege? I wonder how he would have gotten that status had it not been the way of the mother?
Obviously you haven't been a part of hunting parties before...lots of guys drinking and goofing off wandering around in the wilderness areas behaving less than civilized. Coarse stories and language not fit for mixed company. I really don't recommend going on any. They haven't changed in thousands of years.
And the lineage of the Messiah promised is in the poetry of the Blessing that Isaac gave Jacob.
Especially 27: 28&29.
Notice the blessing that Isaac gives Esau in 39&40. Almost the opposite...and how Edomites were NOT allowed to rule any city of Israel.
Now this plays a role in a guess of why Caleb gave up ruling Kirith Arba (AKA Hebron) when he was told to take the City by Joshua.
Also Herod (who killed John the Baptist) of the New Testament was also an Edomite.