From Off The Face Of The Earth 2
- Thread starter VineyardsOfEngedi
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yes, fish have blood 
but fish are not mentioned as perishing in the flood in Genesis 7, rather, everything 'on the face of the earth' - specifically including birds, which at some point land on ground or trees which spring up from the ground.
significantly, in Genesis 1:10 God divides the dry land from the waters - and that division is present implicitly in Genesis 7.
regarding blood, there is much much much to say, but relevant to this discussion, before the flood God had given plants of every kind that produce seeds ((so not ferns, ha!)) to man for food. after the flood God gives Noah all living creatures as food ((Genesis 9:3)). that's of interest because plants do not have blood, but the living creatures do.
but fish are not mentioned as perishing in the flood in Genesis 7, rather, everything 'on the face of the earth' - specifically including birds, which at some point land on ground or trees which spring up from the ground.
significantly, in Genesis 1:10 God divides the dry land from the waters - and that division is present implicitly in Genesis 7.
regarding blood, there is much much much to say, but relevant to this discussion, before the flood God had given plants of every kind that produce seeds ((so not ferns, ha!)) to man for food. after the flood God gives Noah all living creatures as food ((Genesis 9:3)). that's of interest because plants do not have blood, but the living creatures do.
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they sure had been! Genesis 3 comes before Genesis 4
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
the law came through Moses many generations later that taught man about sin and death
eating the fruit caused the. To become conflicted sinners knowing good and evil but not sin and death wasn’t explained to man until Moses law was given.
Cain wasn’t told “ Thou shalt not kill “ and another point showing Moses law hadn’t yet come is Cain was t out to death like the law requires
the law of Moses informs us of sin and death that’s it’s purpose the fruit just corrupted them and cursed mankind to death through sin. The law came later to give us t he knowledge of sin and death and then the gospel came afterward to give us the knowledge of righteousness me life
man is taught of sin and death in Moses law is what I’m saying Cain never was told about Thou shalt not kill. See afterwards God gives that law
“And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.”
Genesis 9:5-6 KJV
see what I’m saying Cain wasn’t out to death like the law requires because the law of sin and death had not been yet given so Cain was spared but exiled the law comes as a response to
Mans growing sin like that Cain killed able and afterwards God makes the that “anyone who kills a man , must be put to death “
the law was always a response to sin
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
Galatians 3:19 KJV
genesis three is why man became sinners exodus Leviticus Deuteronomy and numbers is where man learns about sin and death what is sin ? The law tells us what is the consequence of sin ? The law tells us
and of course the gospel is where man learns about repentance and remission of sins and everlasting life through Christ Jesus
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yes certainly - but not all of them. after all, Noah didn't bring fish on the ark with him
it's interesting too that animals are killed at all - there is no indication that any animal other than man has sin.
so innocent blood is being shed -- atonement? or will those wicked people pre-flood be held accountable for the blood of the other living souls, as having brought about their murder? certainly God is no murderer - tho He gave all things breath and life, and is just to take it away if He pleases.
but the animals are called "living souls" ((in Hebrew, despite English translations deciding to put 'creature' for nephesh whenever it's anything but a human)) just like man is throughout Genesis 1-9, and have the same breath of life. a remnant of them is preserved in the ark, just like Noah, which is a picture of salvation - the ark being a figure of Christ.
sorry that's a little off track from the topic of Cain, but in my mind Genesis 7:23 settles the question of Cain surviving the flood. if he was even still alive at that point, he died with everyone else that wasn't in the ark. we can see that again in Genesis 6:13 -
it's interesting too that animals are killed at all - there is no indication that any animal other than man has sin.
so innocent blood is being shed -- atonement? or will those wicked people pre-flood be held accountable for the blood of the other living souls, as having brought about their murder? certainly God is no murderer - tho He gave all things breath and life, and is just to take it away if He pleases.
but the animals are called "living souls" ((in Hebrew, despite English translations deciding to put 'creature' for nephesh whenever it's anything but a human)) just like man is throughout Genesis 1-9, and have the same breath of life. a remnant of them is preserved in the ark, just like Noah, which is a picture of salvation - the ark being a figure of Christ.
sorry that's a little off track from the topic of Cain, but in my mind Genesis 7:23 settles the question of Cain surviving the flood. if he was even still alive at that point, he died with everyone else that wasn't in the ark. we can see that again in Genesis 6:13 -
And God said to Noah,
“The end of all flesh has come before Me,
for the earth is filled with violence through them;
and behold! I will destroy them with the earth"
kind of hard to argue that Cain doesn't count as part of "all flesh" -- tho at the same time fishes are also flesh. we can understand tho that He was destroying everything on the land ((same word as earth)), and it's understood that Noah & company were excluded, but Cain isn't among them, so, i mean unless Cain became aquaman.. lol-
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lol aqua man that’s funny brother actually laughed
I think that mankind has dominion and so it corrupted everything on earth all the evil came through man so for instance by Gods original design , animals would have feared and dreaded mankind we could have walked up to a lion d it would have been terrified of us and never attacked in fact adam named the animals God brought them to him to see what Adam would call them
he really gave earth To us and everything on earth but with that dominion came the principle that of man became wicked it would affect the whole earth
so when they became wicked through the knowledge of good and evil which was not Gods Will but was what God forbid when they did that it affected everything oir while kingdom God had made for us even the animals
so now we’re afraid of animals d terrified of a lion or bear or whatever dangerous animal. Gods design for this world was corrupted by us
“And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
Genesis 6:5-6, 11-13 KJV
it seems what man did affected everything God had given man dominion over , all the earth and all the creatures.
and I believe myself that’s why Christ came as a man because the earth belongs to man and we needed a man to redeem our dominion on earth which Satan has corrupted and wielded through us
“The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.”
Psalm 115:16 KJV
and so the son of man was given to redeem the earth and heavens both because he is the lord and also the son of man this makes him lord of both heaven and earth
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.”
Matthew 28:18 KJV
we’re no longer corrupting things because he is now in dominion on earth as in heaven so it’s still mans earth but Christ is the man
an off note , I believe animals are very important to God and believe that they will also fill the new earth and that those animals here will be those there like from men he will redeem animals as well
the ink of how just God is and that even when a sparrow falls he knows it and cares and then think of the innocent animals sacrificed for mans sin , tortured or abused ect
this is just my own belief but I believe the animals on the new earth will be redeemed like men will be from this world I believe that animals have a spirit also and some will be redeemed I find it interesting that even animals are held to account for murder
“And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.”
Genesis 9:5 KJV
and I’m the law for instance if a mans animal got loose and gored someone it was out put to death so in a way I make are actually accountable for sin at least violence towards man
I think that mankind has dominion and so it corrupted everything on earth all the evil came through man so for instance by Gods original design , animals would have feared and dreaded mankind we could have walked up to a lion d it would have been terrified of us and never attacked in fact adam named the animals God brought them to him to see what Adam would call them
he really gave earth To us and everything on earth but with that dominion came the principle that of man became wicked it would affect the whole earth
so when they became wicked through the knowledge of good and evil which was not Gods Will but was what God forbid when they did that it affected everything oir while kingdom God had made for us even the animals
so now we’re afraid of animals d terrified of a lion or bear or whatever dangerous animal. Gods design for this world was corrupted by us
“And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
Genesis 6:5-6, 11-13 KJV
it seems what man did affected everything God had given man dominion over , all the earth and all the creatures.
and I believe myself that’s why Christ came as a man because the earth belongs to man and we needed a man to redeem our dominion on earth which Satan has corrupted and wielded through us
“The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.”
Psalm 115:16 KJV
and so the son of man was given to redeem the earth and heavens both because he is the lord and also the son of man this makes him lord of both heaven and earth
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.”
Matthew 28:18 KJV
we’re no longer corrupting things because he is now in dominion on earth as in heaven so it’s still mans earth but Christ is the man
an off note , I believe animals are very important to God and believe that they will also fill the new earth and that those animals here will be those there like from men he will redeem animals as well
the ink of how just God is and that even when a sparrow falls he knows it and cares and then think of the innocent animals sacrificed for mans sin , tortured or abused ect
this is just my own belief but I believe the animals on the new earth will be redeemed like men will be from this world I believe that animals have a spirit also and some will be redeemed I find it interesting that even animals are held to account for murder
“And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.”
Genesis 9:5 KJV
and I’m the law for instance if a mans animal got loose and gored someone it was out put to death so in a way I make are actually accountable for sin at least violence towards man
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yes, fish have blood
but fish are not mentioned as perishing in the flood in Genesis 7, rather, everything 'on the face of the earth' - specifically including birds, which at some point land on ground or trees which spring up from the ground.
significantly, in Genesis 1:10 God divides the dry land from the waters - and that division is present implicitly in Genesis 7.
regarding blood, there is much much much to say, but relevant to this discussion, before the flood God had given plants of every kind that produce seeds ((so not ferns, ha!)) to man for food. after the flood God gives Noah all living creatures as food ((Genesis 9:3)). that's of interest because plants do not have blood, but the living creatures do.
but fish are not mentioned as perishing in the flood in Genesis 7, rather, everything 'on the face of the earth' - specifically including birds, which at some point land on ground or trees which spring up from the ground.
significantly, in Genesis 1:10 God divides the dry land from the waters - and that division is present implicitly in Genesis 7.
regarding blood, there is much much much to say, but relevant to this discussion, before the flood God had given plants of every kind that produce seeds ((so not ferns, ha!)) to man for food. after the flood God gives Noah all living creatures as food ((Genesis 9:3)). that's of interest because plants do not have blood, but the living creatures do.
Interesting two people were cast out of God's presence Adam and Cain?
We weren’t created in a state of sin and death needing to be saved . God made them in his image and put them in his presence in Eden gave them everything and freedom then warned them about the fruit. They then transgressed that warning and we’re cast out and kept away from the tree of life.
that’s why man needs to be redeemed , reconciled to our former relationship with God.
persistent sin always causes God to trim away and hide his face he did the same thing after choosing israel and they kept on sinning
“And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.”
Deuteronomy 31:18 KJV
the difference is he had come to dwell with them on earth at this time , and when they broke the covenant it was him that withdrew into heaven and his his favor and face and presence from us all because of sin is in his presence it is destroyed that’s why when he comes back it’s going to be destruction of this evil world
sort of this happened in the beginning because of mankind’s ( Adam
And Eves ) sin
“Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
Genesis 3:23-24 KJV
and Christ came to offer this restoration of what man lost
“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”
Revelation 2:7
“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.”
Revelation 22:14 KJV
Adam got us exiled Christ has opened the door and is inviting us home to God reconciled , redeemed , saved those terms tell us it’s about being restored to the former before sin and death
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Interesting point I also gathered that it says species so not necessarily like lets say a domestic cat but rather the species of cats. Which reminds me of another discussion I heard where they said that God didn't directly create I believe it was the cheetah but that the cheetah evolved from a prior form of a cat species. I forget the animal but it was feline. I wonder how they were meant to look like back in Eden?
I also gathered that it says species so not necessarily like lets say a domestic cat but rather the species of cats. Which reminds me of another discussion I heard where they said that God didn't directly create I believe it was the cheetah but that the cheetah evolved from a prior form of a cat species. I forget the animal but it was feline. I wonder how they were meant to look like back in Eden?-
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I wonder why the bible is full of riddles
just as He hid Himself in humanity in the person of Christ, He has concealed Himself in His word - so we will seek Him out, and find Him -- to His glory
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing:
but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
(Proverbs 25:2)
so we might become wise, by pursuing Him & clinging to Him when we find Him -
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because He expects us to study it, and meditate on it, and pray for understanding of it -- if it was simple we might read it once and put it down. we'd become vain. it's amazing complexity shows it is His handiwork, and it humbles me to read it
just as He hid Himself in humanity in the person of Christ, He has concealed Himself in His word - so we will seek Him out, and find Him -- to His glory
just as He hid Himself in humanity in the person of Christ, He has concealed Himself in His word - so we will seek Him out, and find Him -- to His glory
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing:
but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
(Proverbs 25:2)
so we might become wise, by pursuing Him & clinging to Him when we find Him
Psalms 18
11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
ahh Psalms is great
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as in the creation of nephilim, fallen angels breeding with humans
here's something interesting:
it's the same word all over Leviticus describing a sacrifice that has to be without a spot.
there's an implication that Noah is "untainted" - not corrupt, unlike so much of creation had become. that could possibly mean physically uncorrupted. his genealogy is given there in Genesis 6, and in the same context as the earth becoming corrupt. it may be that God is pointing at Noah as not only being just/righteous before Him in conduct, but also having unpolluted DNA
this isn't necessarily also the case with everyone else on the ark. if nephilim are indeed the product of some kind of DNA tampering, human-angelic hybrids producing monstrously large, strong, murderous people, then there's a problem of, how did they appear on earth later? because in Canaan there were also 'anakim' - like Og, and Goliath, and Goliath's brothers. if this is somehow DNA related, then that DNA had to have been carried on the ark - the likely suspect being the wives of Noah's sons.
here's something interesting:
Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.
(Genesis 6:9)
that word 'perfect' has many possible meanings in Hebrew -- whole, complete, blameless, or "without blemish" (Genesis 6:9)
it's the same word all over Leviticus describing a sacrifice that has to be without a spot.
there's an implication that Noah is "untainted" - not corrupt, unlike so much of creation had become. that could possibly mean physically uncorrupted. his genealogy is given there in Genesis 6, and in the same context as the earth becoming corrupt. it may be that God is pointing at Noah as not only being just/righteous before Him in conduct, but also having unpolluted DNA
this isn't necessarily also the case with everyone else on the ark. if nephilim are indeed the product of some kind of DNA tampering, human-angelic hybrids producing monstrously large, strong, murderous people, then there's a problem of, how did they appear on earth later? because in Canaan there were also 'anakim' - like Og, and Goliath, and Goliath's brothers. if this is somehow DNA related, then that DNA had to have been carried on the ark - the likely suspect being the wives of Noah's sons.
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Interesting two people were cast out of God's presence Adam and Cain?
interesting question.
because Adam & Eve are not cursed - Satan is cursed, and the ground is cursed. and God makes coverings for them, shedding innocent blood to make garments. they confess their sin, Woman testifies against Satan, and God clothes them.
God doesn't get rid of the way to the tree of life; He guards it - and does it for their sake, so they don't live forever in their fallen state. God is good; what He is doing there is for Adam & Eve's benefit, for our benefit. He has a plan - Christ, our Salvation ♥
in 1 Kings 17 & 1 Kings 23 God says He removes Israel from His presence, too. i was looking at some different translations and that word is sometimes "face" or "countenance" ((including in Genesis 4, Cain's 'countenance fell' - same thing)) and a lot of versions in 1 Kings 17 & 23 have, God removed Israel from His "sight"
Jonah also says the same thing in his prayer in Jonah 2:4 -- that God has cast him out of His presence.