Does anyone want to tell me what a Zionist is?

[Combanitorics]

There's a smaller city in the State of Illinois called Zion, but that can't be it. Zionism is supposed to be something to do with Israel, and Illinois is definitely in the United States. There's also a Zion Baptist Church on Madison in Seattle, but that can't be it, because they all come from the United States and none of them are Hebrews.

Does anyone know the answer?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Does anyone know the answer?

Yes. Zionism was a secular Jewish movement in the late 19th century which had the goal of re-establishing a homeland for Jews in Palestine. Since Anti-Semitism had become the norm in most of Europe, many Jews felt that they could no longer remain there. The result was the establishment of the nation-state of Israel in 1948.

"Theodor Herzl was the founder and president of the Zionist Organization, the modern political movement to establish an independent Jewish state. A successful Viennese journalist and playwright, Herzl published his Zionist manifesto The Jewish State (“Der Judenstaat”) in 1896. The following year, he convened the first Zionist Congress with the aim of taking practical steps to establish the Jewish state. Herzl led the Zionist Organization for seven years until his death in 1904 at age 44. Herzl is the only individual mentioned by name in Israel’s Declaration of Independence, which refers to him as the “author of the vision of the Jewish state” (הוגה חזון המדינה היהודית)...

...Today, Herzl is remembered principally for his “political Zionism”–a term coined by his principal detractor, Ahad Ha’am, as a term of derision. Herzl realized that the rapid rise of anti-Semitism in France, Germany, Austria and Russia was leading to a catastrophic persecution of the Jews, and saving Jewish lives was a principal motive behind his efforts to establish a territory under Jewish legal and military control that could serve as a place of refuge. But Herzl’s critique of the Jewish condition ran deeper than this. Even Jews living in physical safety were in an intolerable position, he believed, because they had given up their dignity and honor in leaving the identity and traditions of their fathers...
https://herzlinstitute.org/en/theodor-herzl/

 

[ZNP]

Zionists are not simply a historical fact that ended in 1948. They believe God has given them the Holy land, they want Jerusalem to be their capital and they want to rebuild the Temple on the temple mount.

You might think this is what all Jews want but that is not true, many Jews want to go along to get along. They don't want to make waves, they don't want to cause trouble, etc.

On the other hand you have many extremists who are essentially terrorists that are "Zionists" who think the end justifies the means.

Of course Israel has many enemies and all those who are against Israel will highlight every single misstep and offense committed by Jews while conveniently ignoring missteps and offenses committed by others.

Then you have fundamental Christians who push this agenda thinking that God's prophecies need their help to be fulfilled.

 

[Combanitorics]

Yes. Zionism was a secular Jewish movement in the late 19th century which had the goal of re-establishing a homeland for Jews in Palestine. Since Anti-Semitism had become the norm in most of Europe, many Jews felt that they could no longer remain there. The result was the establishment of the nation-state of Israel in 1948.

"Theodor Herzl was the founder and president of the Zionist Organization, the modern political movement to establish an independent Jewish state. A successful Viennese journalist and playwright, Herzl published his Zionist manifesto The Jewish State (“Der Judenstaat”) in 1896. The following year, he convened the first Zionist Congress with the aim of taking practical steps to establish the Jewish state. Herzl led the Zionist Organization for seven years until his death in 1904 at age 44. Herzl is the only individual mentioned by name in Israel’s Declaration of Independence, which refers to him as the “author of the vision of the Jewish state” (הוגה חזון המדינה היהודית)...

...Today, Herzl is remembered principally for his “political Zionism”–a term coined by his principal detractor, Ahad Ha’am, as a term of derision. Herzl realized that the rapid rise of anti-Semitism in France, Germany, Austria and Russia was leading to a catastrophic persecution of the Jews, and saving Jewish lives was a principal motive behind his efforts to establish a territory under Jewish legal and military control that could serve as a place of refuge. But Herzl’s critique of the Jewish condition ran deeper than this. Even Jews living in physical safety were in an intolerable position, he believed, because they had given up their dignity and honor in leaving the identity and traditions of their fathers...
https://herzlinstitute.org/en/theodor-herzl/

The late 19th century is the late 1800s. That's the interim as it's called, after the conclusion of the Napoleonic wars and the beginning of the first world war.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The late 19th century is the late 1800s. That's the interim as it's called, after the conclusion of the Napoleonic wars and the beginning of the first world war.

Not sure how that helps to clarify anything. Herzl published his manifesto in 1896.

 

[Combanitorics]

Yes. Zionism was a secular Jewish movement in the late 19th century which had the goal of re-establishing a homeland for Jews in Palestine. Since Anti-Semitism had become the norm in most of Europe, many Jews felt that they could no longer remain there. The result was the establishment of the nation-state of Israel in 1948.

"Theodor Herzl was the founder and president of the Zionist Organization, the modern political movement to establish an independent Jewish state. A successful Viennese journalist and playwright, Herzl published his Zionist manifesto The Jewish State (“Der Judenstaat”) in 1896. The following year, he convened the first Zionist Congress with the aim of taking practical steps to establish the Jewish state. Herzl led the Zionist Organization for seven years until his death in 1904 at age 44. Herzl is the only individual mentioned by name in Israel’s Declaration of Independence, which refers to him as the “author of the vision of the Jewish state” (הוגה חזון המדינה היהודית)...

...Today, Herzl is remembered principally for his “political Zionism”–a term coined by his principal detractor, Ahad Ha’am, as a term of derision. Herzl realized that the rapid rise of anti-Semitism in France, Germany, Austria and Russia was leading to a catastrophic persecution of the Jews, and saving Jewish lives was a principal motive behind his efforts to establish a territory under Jewish legal and military control that could serve as a place of refuge. But Herzl’s critique of the Jewish condition ran deeper than this. Even Jews living in physical safety were in an intolerable position, he believed, because they had given up their dignity and honor in leaving the identity and traditions of their fathers...
https://herzlinstitute.org/en/theodor-herzl/

I hope this isn't too offensive. I actually don't know anything about Zionism. What's a secular Jew? Because as I understand the word secular, all that means is that he isn't catholic. Only Romans are catholic anyway, like only Hebrews are Jews. It's like saying heterodox in Greek. A Greek is orthodox, because of his family being Archalayen, which is just the Grecian word for Greek. People are heterodox who are not orthodox, meaning that any non-Greek is heterodox.

Anyway, I don't know a lot about Israel, but I've read that Tel Aviv has a state church religious requirement and that you have to be a messianic Jew to be an Israeli. How is that secular?

 

[ZNP]

I hope this isn't too offensive. I actually don't know anything about Zionism. What's a secular Jew? Because as I understand the word secular, all that means is that he isn't catholic. Only Romans are catholic anyway, like only Hebrews are Jews. It's like saying heterodox in Greek. A Greek is orthodox, because of his family being Archalayen, which is just the Grecian word for Greek. People are heterodox who are not orthodox, meaning that any non-Greek is heterodox.

Anyway, I don't know a lot about Israel, but I've read that Tel Aviv has a state church religious requirement and that you have to be a messianic Jew to be an Israeli. How is that secular?

Some people view being Jew as a cultural heritage and not a religious faith. A secular Jew acknowledges their cultural heritage without any faith in God or the Bible

 

[Nehemiah6]

Anyway, I don't know a lot about Israel, but I've read that Tel Aviv has a state church religious requirement and that you have to be a messianic Jew to be an Israeli. How is that secular?

That is incorrect. Here is the official position:

Apply to be naturalized if you are a permanent resident

Permanent residents with valid residency status can use this service to apply to be naturalized.

Who can apply
Permanent residents with valid residency status who meet the following conditions.
You:

• are currently in Israel
• have resided in Israel for 3 of the 5 years before applying
• have permanent residency status
• have settled in Israel or intend to settle in Israel.
• speak Hebrew at some level
• have relinquished your other citizenship or can provide evidence that you will cease to hold foreign citizenship after being naturalized.

https://www.gov.il/en/service/request_for_citizenship_of_a_person_who_holds_pemanent_residency

Please go to official sources for factual information.

 

[JStates]

There are two Zions. In the Bible, Zion refers to the Kingdom of God, which God is assembling from all tribes, tongues, and nations of the Earth. It is a spiritual kingdom and "not of this world" in the words of Christ.

The label is also given to those who want to see a rebuild Israel here on Earth. They think that paradise can be attained by building an Earthly kingdom. There are powers which want to rebuild a Third Temple, which will be a headquarters for the inclusive One World Order religion and the center of reinstituted sacrifices. There's a problem with that. The bodies of New Testament believers are now the temples of the Holy Ghost, and since Jesus Christ was the Perfect Sacrifice that the Old Testament sacrifices pointed to, there is no need for bringing back animal sacrifices. In fact, it would be an affront to God.

Many Christians today don't understand these things.

Those who would rebuild the Third Temple in Jerusalem and bring back sacrifices are no friends of God nor are they in Christ.

In fact, when the Antichrist eventually enters this rebuilt Temple, he will blaspheme God and then begin a purge of all true believers.

 

[Combanitorics]

Some people view being Jew as a cultural heritage and not a religious faith. A secular Jew acknowledges their cultural heritage without any faith in God or the Bible

Well, is that anything like being an English secularist or atheist? Because there is a story in the Bible detailing how before the birth of Isaac, Abraham and Sarah had household idols, really not much different than the way English people built a solar Calander in their southern province before they converted to Christianity. It's kind of like there's a law in England that everybody has to be an Anglican, but a lot of people aren't, especially in the United States.

 

[Combanitorics]

There are two Zions. In the Bible, Zion refers to the Kingdom of God, which God is assembling from all tribes, tongues, and nations of the Earth. It is a spiritual kingdom and "not of this world" in the words of Christ.

The label is also given to those who want to see a rebuild Israel here on Earth. They think that paradise can be attained by building an Earthly kingdom. There are powers which want to rebuild a Third Temple, which will be a headquarters for the inclusive One World Order religion and the center of reinstituted sacrifices. There's a problem with that. The bodies of New Testament believers are now the temples of the Holy Ghost, and since Jesus Christ was the Perfect Sacrifice that the Old Testament sacrifices pointed to, there is no need for bringing back animal sacrifices. In fact, it would be an affront to God.

Many Christians today don't understand these things.

Those who would rebuild the Third Temple in Jerusalem and bring back sacrifices are no friends of God nor are they in Christ.

In fact, when the Antichrist eventually enters this rebuilt Temple, he will blaspheme God and then begin a purge of all true believers.

I've heard of that. There's a fabled or religiously spiritual "Mount Zion", but I actually don't know where such a mountain is on earth, and I've never seen a photograph of it. To be perfectly honest, I've always viewed that as being like the fables of Mount Olympus. I'm not sure that there's a mountain like that, but Greece does have a capitol city.

 

[Combanitorics]

That is incorrect. Here is the official position:

Apply to be naturalized if you are a permanent resident

Permanent residents with valid residency status can use this service to apply to be naturalized.

Who can apply
Permanent residents with valid residency status who meet the following conditions.
You:

• are currently in Israel
• have resided in Israel for 3 of the 5 years before applying
• have permanent residency status
• have settled in Israel or intend to settle in Israel.
• speak Hebrew at some level
• have relinquished your other citizenship or can provide evidence that you will cease to hold foreign citizenship after being naturalized.

https://www.gov.il/en/service/request_for_citizenship_of_a_person_who_holds_pemanent_residency

Please go to official sources for factual information.

Well, I wouldn't be a person on their list. But still, if I'm reading this right, a Zionist is just someone who thinks there's an Israel on Earth, it's not just a spiritual thing or a place in a time long gone? Because I'm sure there's a country called Israel myself, in spite of the fact that it's reputed to have really conscientious politics, although having said that I'm sure that most of the people I've seen arguing about it online weren't Israeli, at least according to that list, since the debates were in English rather than Hebrew.

 

[JStates]

I've heard of that. There's a fabled or religiously spiritual "Mount Zion", but I actually don't know where such a mountain is on earth, and I've never seen a photograph of it. To be perfectly honest, I've always viewed that as being like the fables of Mount Olympus. I'm not sure that there's a mountain like that, but Greece does have a capitol city.

Oh, interesting thoughts. So, I have an unusual perspective on some of this being a flat earther. Take it or leave it:

Some flat earthers believe there is a black hematite mountain at the center of the Earth plane, at magnetic north. The Bible talks about the "sides of the north" and it mentions an exceeding high mountain from which Christ was tempted by Satan and where all the kingdoms of the world could be seen. Logically, this would be at the center if the Earth is a plane.

Psalm 48:2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

 

[JStates]

Well, I wouldn't be a person on their list. But still, if I'm reading this right, a Zionist is just someone who thinks there's an Israel on Earth, it's not just a spiritual thing or a place in a time long gone? Because I'm sure there's a country called Israel myself, in spite of the fact that it's reputed to have really conscientious politics, although having said that I'm sure that most of the people I've seen arguing about it online weren't Israeli, at least according to that list, since the debates were in English rather than Hebrew.

I would say a Zionist is one who thinks that Jews are superior to others. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but it's what I sense. They're not merely seeking a nation of their own, but dominance of that nation over the whole Earth.

 

[Combanitorics]

Not sure how that helps to clarify anything. Herzl published his manifesto in 1896.

I'll make a serious effort to find that document. Is this Heschel the same or a relative of Rabbi Herschel, who wrote a book called "Man is not alone" and another one on Man's search for God? I read them years ago, they both referenced the experiences of Job.

Also, and I absolutely no references for this, but I swear I once heard it from an itinerant storyteller in public place, who is "Rabbi Baal Shem Tov?" That doesn't sound like much of a name for a Rabbi, Baal is a villain from the Old Testament.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Is this Heschel the same or a relative of Rabbi Herschel

The spelling of his name is Herzl.

 

[Combanitorics]

The spelling of his name is Herzl.

Sure. I looked at his stuff online. He looks exactly like several other people from his time in old black and white paintings from the time, but then a bunch of other people do too. I'm sure that's just an effect of the (sarcasm) extreme primitiveness of early pinhole flash photography.

 

[FrancisClare]

I'm the daughter of holocaust scholars who felt that anyone who wasn't a Zionist was, well, missing the point would be putting it entirely to kindly. So, I'd be happy to address questions about Zionist ideas. I'm not inclined to jump into the middle of the topic 'cause I've kinda spent my life there.

 

[FrancisClare]

Forgive me, I haven't even read the posts on this topic. I kind of avoid the topic unless asked directly.

 

[Enocish]

Not sure if anyone he's still monitoring this but here goes, This is my opinion and I feel like this forum is the place where I can share my opinion, I don't ask you to believe, I ask you to prove me wrong, good luck
this is an Educated assessment after reading The information
A true Jew will not openly admit to being a Jew, at least most of them. there are reprocutions for being jew. some are Christians And are housed in the tribe of Manasa which is the British Commonwealth ( UK, Ireland, Scotland, and Australia )
The easiest way to tell a Jew when you ask is if they say they are and openly admit. You can bet in most cases they are not Jews, they are Zionists, ( Those who say they are Jews but are not ), And most of them are housed in the country Israel, And they are called Ashkenazy jews. Again those who say they are Jews but are not, and They do not believe Jesus died on the cross and rose again and is our savior, They do however believe Jesus was a good man and they are still waiting for him to come first time. There is a story behind this but that belongs on a different forum or post. And there are some zionist in Hollywood I have heard in order to become a star you have to convert to Judaism and become An Ashkenazy Zionist Jew ..