How can we be sure that by "works" Jesus meant miracles?

[ResidentAlien]

John 14:12 says: "Most assuredly I say to you, he that believes in Me, the works which I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."

How do we know that when He says "works" he's talking about miracles and not good works of righteousness? The passage doesn't say anything to suggest He's talking about miracles.

And in John 10:32 He says: "Jesus answered them, 'Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?' "

It's assumed by many He's talking about miracles. I'm not saying He's not talking about miracles, but on what basis can we know for sure this is what He means?

 

[JaumeJ]

I believe it is based on faith, and also what He performs through us.

 

[p_rehbein]

It's assumed by many He's talking about miracles. I'm not saying He's not talking about miracles, but on what basis can we know for sure this is what He means?

Do you have an example of any works Jesus did? Other than miracles? I would say that believing He is speaking of the miracles He did as the works He did is elementary belief. Simple truth born out in Scripture.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Do you have an example of any works Jesus did? Other than miracles? I would say that believing He is speaking of the miracles He did as the works He did is elementary belief. Simple truth born out in Scripture.

Luke 2:52 says: "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men." This was before He even started working miracles, at least as far as we know. He didn't grow in favor with men by not being good to them.

Acts 10:38 says: "Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all those who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him." It says He went about doing good and healing, not just healing; at least it can be read that way.

He went around preaching and teaching the kingdom of heaven and the way of salvation. I'd say that's a pretty good work.

If you believe the account of the woman caught in adultery is genuine, His forgiving her was a good work.

He forgave the paralytics sins in Matthew 9.

John 21:25 says: "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that not even the world itself would have room for the books which would be written." It says things, not miracles. I suppose miracles is implied, but it doesn't specifically say miracles.

So there's plenty to show that miracles weren't the extent of the good works Jesus did.

 

[Charlie24]

Jesus was speaking directly to the future apostles when He said in John 14:12,

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."

"He that believeth on me" is speaking of all believers who would believe. I think it obvious that all who would believe on Christ do not have the gift of miracles.

Jesus was confined to the greater Israel area with His ministry. He said, "I have only come to the lost sheep of Israel."

"The greater works than these" that Jesus spoke of were the works of the believers taking the Gospel to the entire world, which is greater than His works confined to that specific location.

This is how I see it anyway.

 

[Aaron56]

We don't have to wonder what he meant. We can look at the works the Apostles and apostles did: works of mercy and love (like the work of an evangelist the apostle Timothy is instructed to do) and works of power (miraculous).

 

[Nehemiah6]

It's assumed by many He's talking about miracles. I'm not saying He's not talking about miracles, but on what basis can we know for sure this is what He means?

The Gospels are crystal clear that the miracles of Christ were in fact His "good works". And only a fraction of them are actually recorded as John tells us in his Gospel.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The Gospels are crystal clear that the miracles of Christ were in fact His "good works". And only a fraction of them are actually recorded as John tells us in his Gospel.

Okay, maybe we're getting somewhere. This is the reason I created this thread. What scriptures do you have that make it "crystal clear?"

 

[Charlie24]

The Gospels are crystal clear that the miracles of Christ were in fact His "good works". And only a fraction of them are actually recorded as John tells us in his Gospel.

That is true!

John 10:32

"Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?"

There is no doubt that here Jesus is speaking of the miracles he has performed!

Titus 3:8

"This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men."

Are the "good works" that Paul speaks of here miracles? Are we to maintain miracles in this Christian life?

NO, that is not what Paul is saying about "good works" and neither has Jesus told us to "maintain good works" in miracles.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The Gospels are crystal clear that the miracles of Christ were in fact His "good works". And only a fraction of them are actually recorded as John tells us in his Gospel.

Sorry, ignore my previous post, I may have misunderstood you. Are you saying the "works" are miracles or not miracles.

 

[p_rehbein]

Luke 2:52 says: "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men." This was before He even started working miracles, at least as far as we know. He didn't grow in favor with men by not being good to them.

Acts 10:38 says: "Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all those who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him." It says He went about doing good and healing, not just healing; at least it can be read that way.

He went around preaching and teaching the kingdom of heaven and the way of salvation. I'd say that's a pretty good work.

If you believe the account of the woman caught in adultery is genuine, His forgiving her was a good work.

He forgave the paralytics sins in Matthew 9.

John 21:25 says: "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that not even the world itself would have room for the books which would be written." It says things, not miracles. I suppose miracles is implied, but it doesn't specifically say miracles.

So there's plenty to show that miracles weren't the extent of the good works Jesus did.

The first has nothing to do with works

The others are your "reading into Scripture" and no direct relation to "works" as we understand works. Healing is a miracle in and of itself btw....

the "things Jesus did" was performing miracles, just as the Scriptures reveal..

You have not shown any "works" by Jesus......

Why read into Scripture? You know Scripture teaches against such, right?

He who adds to or takes away...........not a good idea IMO...

 

[ResidentAlien]

The first has nothing to do with works

The others are your "reading into Scripture" and no direct relation to "works" as we understand works. Healing is a miracle in and of itself btw....

the "things Jesus did" was performing miracles, just as the Scriptures reveal..

You have not shown any "works" by Jesus......

Why read into Scripture? You know Scripture teaches against such, right?

He who adds to or takes away...........not a good idea IMO...

You say I'm reading into scripture; I won't outright disagree.

But you seem to know for a fact that His works were miracles. You keep saying scripture clearly says they're miracles; but I'm still waiting for the scriptures. Until you show the scriptures your words are meaningless.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Sorry, ignore my previous post, I may have misunderstood you. Are you saying the "works" are miracles or not miracles.

Christ's "works" were in fact Christ's miracles. He probably performed miracles on a daily basis. And He never turned anyone away. The total number of recorded miracles is 43, but some include multiple miracles such as the feeding of the four thousand and five thousand. Yet we do not even know the number of unrecorded miracles which -- as John says -- would exhaust the books of the world.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Are the "good works" that Paul speaks of here miracles?

No, there are many good works other than miracles. Some Christians in the first century would no doubt include miracles among their good works, but today there are all kinds of non-miraculous good works that we are supposed to be engaged in, e.g. the care of the needy, the needy widows, and the needy orphans. There is no limit to what can be included in good works, including being "Good Samaritans". "Greater works" would include the worldwide scope of Christian good works, in contrast to the miracles of Christ in Palestine.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Christ's "works" were in fact Christ's miracles. He probably performed miracles on a daily basis. And He never turned anyone away. The total number of recorded miracles is 43, but some include multiple miracles such as the feeding of the four thousand and five thousand. Yet we do not even know the number of unrecorded miracles which -- as John says -- would exhaust the books of the world.

Okay, my original question remains then. On what scriptures do you base this?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Okay, my original question remains then. On what scriptures do you base this?

The Gospel record. Christ was not engaged in feeding the poor or setting up homeless shelters. Almost every page of every Gospel has a record of His miracles. And it is significant that He also chose to heal on Sabbath days, to show that Sabbath rest did not exclude good works.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The Gospel record. Christ was not engaged in feeding the poor or setting up homeless shelters. Almost every page of every Gospel has a record of His miracles. And it is significant that He also chose to heal on Sabbath days, to show that Sabbath rest did not exclude good works.

All this tell me is you're entrenched in your belief without any scriptural basis. If you think of something later and have time to post it I'll be glad to hear it.

 

[Nehemiah6]

All this tell me is you're entrenched in your belief without any scriptural basis. If you think of something later and have time to post it I'll be glad to hear it.

No. You need to re-read all the Gospels and understand the works of Christ. I have personally done a detailed chronological study of the miracles of Christ.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

From just reading the Gospels alone, Works of Christ can be defined from the Example of how He lived daily for God, how He Loved, how He Witnessed/Preached/Taught the Word of God, and then we have the Events of all of the Miracles listed. The Whole Package of Christ reflected the Works of God.

It's not any one specific thing, it's the conglomerate package of it all.

 

[Runningman]

John 14:12 says: "Most assuredly I say to you, he that believes in Me, the works which I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."

How do we know that when He says "works" he's talking about miracles and not good works of righteousness? The passage doesn't say anything to suggest He's talking about miracles.

And in John 10:32 He says: "Jesus answered them, 'Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?' "

It's assumed by many He's talking about miracles. I'm not saying He's not talking about miracles, but on what basis can we know for sure this is what He means?

The gospels often refer to the works of Jesus as either "might works" or "wonderful works" in the KJV, which translates to "miraculous power" or "miraculous force." Some examples of this are in Matt. 7:22, Mark 6:2, and Luke 10:13. Jesus search the word "works" in the NT and see.

When Jesus spoke to people he often referred to their works using a different word, saying the kinds work they would do are non-miraculous acts, labor, work,

It's different in the book of John, though, where the author referred to the works of Christ using a word that suggests non-miraculous acts, labor, and work.

Maybe from all of that, we can conclude that sometimes G1411 dunamis and and G2041 ergon can sometimes be used interchangeably.

Just from what I can see, the main kind of works Jesus did were miracles and the main kind of works He expects His followers to do are non-miracles. I do believe there is evidence to suggest that miracles still play an active role in the church today, and Christ expects Christians to be able to do miracles too... but that is a different topic.

To answer your question directly about John 14:12, after researching Matt, Mark, and Luke, I believe Jesus is referring specifically to miraculous good works. He's basically saying that anyone who believes on Him can do miracles equal or greater to the miracles He did, but they should also do regular non-miraculous kinds of work.