Who Justifieth the Ungodly

riverhooks · Jan 2, 2022

Well , I agree that He doesn’t do that. What I mean by making him a better Calvinist means that 52 clings to this methodology more tightly My gut is he won’t leave his library for the Bible. There is hope but it is a different Jesus and another gospel . Attempts at reconciliation to the Bible are not working , it is a strong delusion. He referrences scriptures but where they contradict his interpretation it’s back to his Calvinist overlay. He isn’t here to be honest or walk in the light in my view . I think where I am failing is by allowing him to be a sounding board for false doctrine . That appears to be only effect of either of our posts . Sorry your kids had to be exposed to this in College. I have seen it split churches quench revivals grieve the Spirit and bring a halt to evangelism.

I know what you meant. It is only God's Word that will break through all the error and rhetoric.

My point was that it is God's Word that works in the heart ... faith by hearing and hearing by word of God (Rom 10:17).

As God's Word is revealed, if the hearer suppresses the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18), the one who suppresses the truth is without excuse.

We all will give an account ... the one who speaks the truth is only responsible for speaking truth ...

If the hearer who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness is a born again believer, he/she will suffer loss:but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire (1 Cor 3:15).

If the hearer who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness is not a born again believer, he/she will find him/herself cast into the lake of fire (Rev 20:15).

Good Word

brightfame52 · Jan 2, 2022

reneweddaybyday said:

you forgot to include 1 Peter 2:6-7 when you plucked 1 Peter 2:24 from the context in order to prop up your dogma.

1 Peter 2:

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner

In verse 7, the word "disobedient" is translated from the Greek word apeitheó which means

not to allow oneself to be persuaded; not to comply with;

a. to refuse or withhold belief (in Christ, in the gospel; opposed to πιστεύω): τῷ υἱῷ, John 3:36; τῷ λόγῳ, 1 Peter 2:8; 1 Peter 3:1; absolutely of those who reject the gospel, [R. V. to be disobedient; cf. b.]: Acts 14:2; Acts 17:5 [Rec.]; Acts 19:9; Romans 15:31; 1 Peter 2:7 (T Tr WH ἀπιστοῦσιν).

Clearly, God does not withhold anything from those who are disobedient and those who are disobedient have every opportunity to believe. However, those who are disobedient withhold belief ... they refuse to believe. Romans 1:18 tells us they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. That is why they are without excuse (Romans 1:20).

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

I didnt forget anything, Heb 1:3 makes the point of truth.

reneweddaybyday · Jan 2, 2022

brightfame52 said:

r-i-g-h-t ... you can't include what is written in the context because it does not support your claim

brightfame52: This purging of their sins was done by Himself, not by anything they for whom He died for did or done !

1 Peter 2:

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner

In verse 7, the word "disobedient" is translated from the Greek word apeitheó which means

not to allow oneself to be persuaded; not to comply with;a. to refuse or withhold belief (in Christ, in the gospel; opposed to πιστεύω): τῷ υἱῷ, John 3:36; τῷ λόγῳ, 1 Peter 2:8; 1 Peter 3:1; absolutely of those who reject the gospel, [R. V. to be disobedient; cf. b.]: Acts 14:2; Acts 17:5 [Rec.]; Acts 19:9; Romans 15:31; 1 Peter 2:7 (T Tr WH ἀπιστοῦσιν).

Clearly, God does not withhold anything from those who are disobedient and those who are disobedient have every opportunity to believe. However, those who are disobedient withhold belief ... they refuse to believe. Romans 1:18 tells us they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. That is why they are without excuse (Romans 1:20).

riverhooks · Jan 2, 2022

brightfame52 said:

I do love that scripture . My sheep hear My voice. Has the Lord ever required of you a change of lifestyle or were you always saved , and justified without faith ? Further on in Hebrews. He says to exhort one another daily , lest any of you depart from the Living God how could that be even possible if His Grace was irresistable ? Hebrews speaks how our hearts can be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin To me God is in the business of making us responsible for our heart condition. Please enlighten me , because scripture says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling . . What are your feelings about repentance is it necessary for you to repent and believe the gospel ? Be nice 52 you know I am miffed by your copy and pastes and evasive scriptures. Would that you would just yes or no. Since you say you were justified before you believed. It seems to me that when God was saying repent and believe He was directly contradicting your “dogma”. What do you think , yea ? or nay ?
This purging of their sins was done by Himself, not by anything they for whom He died for did or done ! That is absolute correctly but it’s like two people seeing the same thing and have different perceptions.

riverhooks · Jan 2, 2022

That is absolutely correct Jesus died on the cross and paid penalty for every transgression of His Holy Law from the fall of Adam to the Last Day at the end of time. This is the choke point . All men . Every man. All sins . He put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself, Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. It is a stand alone Scripture . God did it . God gets Glory. But the real Jesus doesn’t do robots and he is big on Having a People and people who love him with their freewill. All through the New Testament Jesus is requiring faith. This faith is not His faith . This faith is a faith born-of the Word of God . So no bondage of the will as Luther would say no irresistible grace as Calvin would say and no respect of persons. “The free gift came upon all men” The power of the gospel as revealed in Ephesians 1:15-23 is the power behind the message , the foolishness preaching . You just need the scriptures and relationship with the Holy Spirit. If you are still here , faith is the conduit for the imputation of Gods righeousness. Faith is that which lays ahold of the gift of righteousness. This allows the imputation of His righteousness This does not happen by selection and election. Without faith it is impossible to please. The Holy Spirits part is to convince the sinner of sin , righteousness , and judgement. To lead and guide into all truth and to Glorify Jesus. “ Indeed no man can come to Jesus except the The Father which sent Him draws them “ “ And it shall come to pass that I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh. “ God is not slack concerning His promise but is longsuffering toward us not willing that any would perish but that all would come to repentance. “ God commands all men everywhere to repent”. He that believeth . This faith is from Hearing the Word of God which equates to obedience allowing God to extend His mercy to the one who turns from sin and turns to him . He knows who will come who will believe . This is foreknowledge . He doesn’t want to force someone who rejects Him . He doesn’t roll like that . He wants a people. Who chose to Love the Lord their God with all of their heart mind soul and strength. And because He is Holy. God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. He doesn’t justify anyone without the obedience of faith as described in Romans 1. No respecter of persons to obtain His elect , no partial selection and enablement of the same. Whosoever , “Look unto me all the ends of the earth and be saved”. Calvin was a sick puppy. Sorry to end on that note but I’m kinda worn out. Here to help though. Take Care.

brightfame52 · Jan 3, 2022

Justified the Ungodly !

Though it is hotly denied by religionists, all those Christ died for are Justified before God solely on Christ's Death Merits, while they in and of themselves are sinners, ungodly, and enemies in their minds towards Him. They are while enemies forgiven of all Transgressions against God's Law, free from any curse of the law Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law[HOW], being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

That's how they are redeemed from the curse of the Law, not by believing, not by repenting, not by anything they did at all, but by Him being made a curse for them, meaning His Death !

So through His Death, they are , even while ungodly in themselves, Justified before God's law as through they never sinned. This Justification is made evident by Christ's Resurrection from the dead Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences[transgressions, iniquities], and was raised again for[because of] our justification.111

All this while they in themselves are being Ungodly ! The Natural Man cannot comprehend this

riverhooks · Jan 3, 2022

The natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God. Not because of any other reason than he has not received the gift of righteousness and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit . Which is the result of being Justified by faith. Until then he ,the natural man, has no ability to understand eternal, spiritual wisdom . ( We are justified by faith ) This happens at reconciliation after the ministry of the Holy Spirit has produced faith the prerequistite of salvation. Hear me, When you believe and lay ahold of the risen Jesus you receive that ability.due to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and your sins being washed away you are then declared righteous and Gods righeousness imputed to you. This does not require any skewed reconciliation to the tenents of Calvins by arguing that Jesus sacrifice was without the help of any man. " It should obvious that is what the Lord did when he put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. That gift does not become effectual until it is received by whosover believes. Not by election . The elect are those who believe and visa versa. We are justified not before we believe. Jesus was raised for our justification nothing changes , he makes the sacrifice without your help or mine. We are separated from God by sin , we have a free will which we have used up until the point of justification by faith and reconciliation, to live apart from God and do as we please, however in unbelief it may be, but when we arrive at our time to receive the relationship with God and reconcilation God opens our eyes, and we believe due to our response to the the conviction of our sins, He has not lost his purpose in obtaining a people by free-will to do so. We are justified by faith. Visa V faith apart from our works belief of the truth. The disconnect is in place until you come to Jesus in surrender. You change when you are converted you change you can't live like you once lived your conscience is now very sensitive. The message is be ye reconciled not because you are elected but because you are entreated to come away from that cliffs edge of living apart from God and are being convinced of sin, righteousness and judgement . The gospel is the message of salvation Jesus ,died as a substitute for our sins, and is alive by resurrection. This is the message and Ephesians 1:15-23 is the power of God behind the message. This is the message that God has for the natural man which he commissioned the church to go into all the world with. His message toward the lost sinner. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God . The preaching of the cross the foolishness of preaching. Exactly because the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God. 1. The elect are those that believe and visa versa, those that believe are those who “repent and believe the Gospel” . On the contrary to what you believe the Gospel is the message the only message which God has chosen to speak to the natural man God does not cast pearls before swine nor waste his resources on those that have no ability understand the things of the Spirit of God. God is God. He commands all men everywhere to repent. The ministry of the Holy Spirit in my case while I was reading the Bible opened my eyes And not because I didn’t have a freewill He work worked with His Word. And I hit the deck .

riverhooks · Jan 4, 2022

Here is a nuts and bolts of Justification by Faith Copy and Paste Back atcha

God Justifies the Ungodly

Question: God clearly states "I will not justify the wicked" (Exodus 23:7). That seems to imply that we need to obey the commandments of God in order to be justified.
Answer: Divine justice demands that the righteous person should be justified whereas the wicked should be condemned. It is a miscarriage of justice when lawbreakers are set free and when innocent people are condemned. "He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD" (Proverbs 17:15). We can be sure that God will deal justly with us. Therefore He declares: "I will not justify the wicked" (Exodus 23:7). Since God is absolutely just, He cannot let the sinner go free.
Now that is a fearful thought! For we are all sinners; we have broken God's holy Law. In this sense we are all wicked and therefore we do not stand a chance of escape from Divine justice. God will not justify the wicked!
That is why, if we had to rely on our obedience to the Law, we can never be justified before God. "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" (Romans 3:20). With tears of sorrow, even the holiest Christian admits his sins ever day. As long as we remain on earth it is a sad reality that we continue to sin. Though there is nothing on earth that I hate more than sin, yet I continue to sin and offend the God who loves me so much!
If we were honest with ourselves, we would not ask whether we have obeyed the Law enough to be justified. We know we haven't! Rather, every one of us should ask: What can free me, a guilty sinner, from my sin? Who can save me from God's righteous anger and punishment? Is there hope for me?
Thank God for His Son. There is hope in the Gospel of Jesus Christ!
The apostle Paul makes this incredible statement in the epistle to the Romans: "To him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5). God justifies the ungodly! He does not say, "God justifies the righteous." That would have been perfectly understandable and just - and it would have spelled despair to all of us sinners. He does not even say, "God justifies the ungodly when he converts and starts doing good works." Paul insists that it is to him "who does not work" but "believes" that God accounts as righteous. God justifies the ungodly by faith alone.
Now that is the good news that we need to hear! Somehow God is able to justify me when I believe in Christ even though I am a sinner.
We realize that this is pure grace - something that we do not deserve. Yet a distressing question immediately springs to mind. How can a just God, who has declared that He will not justify the wicked, justify the believer even though the believer is a lawbreaker? Is God ignoring the Law to show us mercy? The apostle Paul is anxious to answer this problem:
"But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus" (Romans 3:21-26).
God demonstrated His righteousness and uprightness in His gracious dealing with sinners by the sacrifice of His Son on the cross. God set forth His Son as propitiation by His blood.
The word "propitiation" basically means to placate, to pacify, to appease. God is offended and angered by sin. "The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men" (Romans 1:18). Jesus turned aside God's wrath against us who believe when He shed His blood on the cross as a sacrifice for sin. God is appeased because Christ fulfilled the demands of the Law.
Justice and mercy met on Calvary's tree. That is why God could be both "just" and "the justifier" of those who believe in Jesus. God justifies the ungodly who believes because his sins were taken away by Jesus Christ.

reneweddaybyday · Jan 4, 2022

brightfame52 said:

In order to prop up your dogma, you rip Galatians 3:13 from its context. By ripping Galatians 3:13 from the context in which it sits, you misconstrue the point:

Galatians 3:

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The whole point of this section is that it was never God's intent for mankind to be redeemed through keeping the law. Redemption has always been afforded to mankind through faith.

The purpose of the law is to bring mankind to the Lord Jesus Christ in order that we might be justified by faith:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

riverhooks · Jan 4, 2022

Once again God doesn’t give himself to the ungodly who do not respond to The Holy Spirit in “ the obedience of faith”. The natural man can understand a crucified savior sacrificed for His sins , and risen from the dead by Gods Power through ministry of the Holy Spirit in John 16. Spiritual things no. That comes after reconciliation Grace through faith when the sinner is justified not before . We are justified by faith. We are not justified in unbelief. When we get reconciled we receive the package. The ability to understand the Bible and it’s revelation because the author of the same now is able to look at us through the Blood and now indwell whosover. Like the Bible says , so until then it remains encrypted it’s mysteries unprocessable by the natural man.. Take a minute 52 And think about it . All of Calvins Tulip add-ons must work together in your faith. Not faith in the Blood . These are Calvins add-ons. T You need to throw out the ability of man to respond to the Gospel ,U you will need to believe God died to obtain individuals circumventing their freewill , L You need to throw out the whosover, the all , the every man , all men, all that believe etc. I you will need to believe the Ministry of the Holy Spirit and power of God unto salvation by the resurrection of Jesus and His ascension to the name above every name is not sufficient to produce faith in an unbeliever. If chosen God gives them automously the reconciliation plus the new nature without any requirement on the chosens part . Again the elect are whosover believes and visa versa . When FAITH then justification > I left out the P in TULIP Because that is debatable . Look this aint’ no game Souls are lost or saved eternally by believing lies. You need to own this error. And repent. We are here to help and reconcile you to the Word. Please lose TULIP …Satan in a deceiver and a clever one. Try one to these topics at time . You are all over the road because all the dots in your Bible interpretation have to fit the above TULIP. Justified by faith , Whosover , all , every man , let the Word correct you . We are not exalting ourselves . I have prayed for you 52 . Let God be God. Give him your library. And keep His Book .

brightfame52 · Jan 4, 2022

reneweddaybyday said:

In order to prop up your dogma, you rip Galatians 3:13 from its context. By ripping Galatians 3:13 from the context in which it sits, you misconstrue the point:

Galatians 3:

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The whole point of this section is that it was never God's intent for mankind to be redeemed through keeping the law. Redemption has always been afforded to mankind through faith.

The purpose of the law is to bring mankind to the Lord Jesus Christ in order that we might be justified by faith:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

According to Gal 3:13 how were they redeemed from the curse of the law ?

reneweddaybyday · Jan 4, 2022

brightfame52 said:

you approach Scripture through eisegesis ...

Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.

The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.

https://www.gotquestions.org/exegesis-eisegesis.html

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

riverhooks · Jan 5, 2022

brightfame52 said:
Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law[HOW], being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

That's how they are redeemed from the curse of the Law, not by believing, not by repenting, not by anything they did at all, but by Him being made a curse for them, meaning His Death ! HUH ? seriously ? “Except you repent you shall all likewise perish” Who did Jesus say this too. As long as we are answering questions with Questions and being evasive . The disciples who became the twelve Apostles of the Lamb minus Judas and plus Matthias of course. Can’t you lose your Calvinist overlay ?. And go to scripture ? You are running on the idea that God is going over-rule your freewill and zap you with a new nature and an indwelling because He bore the curse of the law in your place. No 52 . Again. Hear.. I mean seriously . The scriptures speak of the obedience of faith. He that believes . Thy faith hath made thee whole . Whose ? Thy faith hath made thee whole Whose ? You are bound by exalting Calvins Theology over the Word. You need not that any man teach you , what you do need is to lose your library find new friends that aren’t telling you what you what to hear do a sabbactical in desert like Paul and get alone with God and His book. There is one sacrifice for sins that redeems us them from the curse of the law Christ Jesus there is one thing he requires of us ( belief of the truth) Whosover believeth on Him. Faith is the conduit . Thy faith hath made thee justified . All through both covenants “obey my voice” . Saved by grace through faith not election . But faith that is from belief of the truth , the response of a creation with a freewill fully able to accept or reject the good news . God waits , and waits the Spirit works , and draws , a mans heart devises His way. Maybe as in my case He is convinced of the enormity of his sins and His life before the Holy God and new revelation that Jesus is alive. The Gailaee guy who was doing things 2000 years ago really is alive and now you know it ? How ? The ministry of the Holy Spirit . Not election. He that believes is elected . Not all have to be saved for Christ to have died for them . Satan is lying to you and your friends through Calvin. You are not running to the Bible but your programming the ideas of John Calvin and the 5 points that appear to be so logical they are not. They are obvious error and out of context when you take His ideas out of the equation. Hopefully it is not too late for you. I mean you go from justification by faith to Christ redeeming us from the curse of the law ? Serious crap , you have to own it and let the word correct you. You should believe what the Bible reveals to you. The odds are against you frankly unless you allow yourself to be led of the Bible and not by a mans ideas of what the Bible says. Cause that’s where you are 52. Stuck. In TULIP>

brightfame52 · Jan 5, 2022

Justified by His Blood !

Justified by His Blood ! Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood[Knowing it by Faith], we shall be saved from wrath through him.

This is one verse the adversaries of Truth cannot deny, even though they do, which is that those Christ died for are Justified by His Blood or by His Death, and that while they have no faith. For Christ's Blood that Justified them was shed for them before they had being in themselves, but being the foreknown of God; And what was His Blood shed for or because of ? Why for their sins 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

And He died for their sins before they had a actual being, so they were Justified before God from all their sins before they had an actual being, and so Justified by His Blood. It does not matter how this Truth is opposed, for the Resurrection of Christ from the dead, after dying for their sins, evidences or confirmed their Justification before God , by His Blood or Death Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.112

YLT who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous.

That's an excellent Translation and agrees with OT scripture Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

ESV Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.

This is Justification by His Blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Understand this, one for whom Christ died for in 33 ad, was Justified by His Blood then, though they may not have yet been given Faith to know it or realize it until 1958, when they believed. Their act of believing did not change what was already done and evidenced by Christ's Resurrection, their Justification by the Blood in 33 ad, and to say otherwise is to lie against the Truth, to bear false witness.

brightfame52 · Jan 5, 2022

reneweddaybyday said:

you approach Scripture through eisegesis ...

Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.

The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.

https://www.gotquestions.org/exegesis-eisegesis.html

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

So tell me,

According to Gal 3:13 how were they redeemed from the curse of the law ?

riverhooks · Jan 5, 2022

"If any man has an ear to hear let him hear". I spent 6 years reasoning scriptures with a former associate with the same scriptural overlay. It always leads back to somewhere where Calvins " How can I make the Bible more about me? " skews the character of Christ , Who is now a respecter of persons, throws out every scripture or gives a different meaning to every , all, many, whosover . So far what we have heard from you 52 is straight from the Bible the Calvinist Bible not the real Bible. You have been effectly schooled and demand answers . It's a heavy load where to begin ? First you argue the natural man does not receive the things that are of the Spirit of God, so he cannot respond to the gospel. In spite of The Lords description of The ministry of the Holy Spirit ( John 16) , sending the church into the world the gospel the preaching of the cross ( which now by the way , becomes Calvins Gospel the one that can only be understood by the elect ) Second , you throw out justification by faith ( just throw it out) because redemption from the curse of the law must now be mingled with Christs work on Calvary or his resurrection because according to your faith you do not have to obey the gospel by believing it which would require some kind of faith on your part which God who over-rules your freewill has not given you until he decides that it is time for him to repent for you and believe for you and give you the gift of faith the gift of repentance . So you tell me A man just walked in the door what must he do to be saved ? Was that a word of knowledge that Paul had about the Philippian Jailor. Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law that we might be justified by faith. Justified and redeemed have different meanings . Let's keep it simple . He(Christ) that justifies the ungodly ( you) when you believe that is (you justified). Trying to help you bud, but this pretty obvious. The work of Christ and your election are two separate events. That's what the Bible says . Two . Not one with God doing everything for you Good luck as Mulder would say "the truth is out" there cause that next stop the trajectory your on amigo is definately The Twilight Zone.

reneweddaybyday · Jan 5, 2022

brightfame52 said:

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

brightfame52 said:

... more eisegesis on your part. Pluck a verse out of its context in order to prop up a doctrine never intended by the Author of Scripture.

Why didn't you include the verses just before Romans 4:25?

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

brightfame52 said:

Romans 5:1 makes very clear that we are justified by faith

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

And please note ... Romans 5:1 is the very next verse after Romans 4:25:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

reneweddaybyday · Jan 5, 2022

brightfame52 said:

Galatians 3:

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

riverhooks · Jan 6, 2022

brightfame52 · Jan 6, 2022

Justified through Redemption !

That one or those whom Christ died, that by His Death alone [apart from any act of the one died for] they are declared Justified before God before they believe, or even before they physically exist, this is true because by His Blood alone they were Redeemed, and through this very Redemption they were freely Justified . Eph 1:7

7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Rom 3:24-25

24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

That word freely in Vs 24 is the greek word dōrean and means:

freely, undeservedly

The word is translated without cause here Jn 15:25

But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

Also the word undeserved gives the connotation that instead of deserving, we actually were in a state that deserved God's displeasure and wrath at the time He declared us Justified, we were blamable and unbefitting, reprehensible.

That's why Paul says that He Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:5

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

Now Faith in His Blood is a by product or outcome of Redemption through His Blood and the Faith is the means by which God reveals the Justification to the redeemed one !

Who Justifieth the Ungodly

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