NOT EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES WILL BE SAVED

[EddieRamos]

oh..and faith is not a work as the op is teaching

If you'd like, we can start with 2 questions at a time to let the Bible teach us whether faith is a work or not. Many times, people are not really interested in re-examining what they believe because of fear that it the Bible may reveal something contrary to what they believe. I hope that is not the case with you.

So, here are my questions if you are willing. Can faith without works save anyone? Before you answer, please explain your answer in light of this verse.

James 2:14 (KJV 1900)
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

If faith does not have works, can it be saving faith? Before you answer, please explain your answer in light of this verse.

James 2:17 (KJV 1900)
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

 

[PennEd]

Works guys are like hydras. Chop off one head and they sprout 2 more.


Ephesians 2:8-9
New King James Version


8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, AND THAT not of yourselves; it is gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

 

[Blik]

Works guys are like hydras. Chop off one head and they sprout 2 more. .

By this do you mean you put no value in work we do as a result of Christ within?

If you eliminate work for Christ from your life, you eliminate Christ in your life.

 

[peldom10]

Fair enough. You’re free to stop replying while I try to undo some of the damage you’ve done.

So he continues.
Maybe a administrator will put the pieces together...soon.

 

[peldom10]

Works guys are like hydras. Chop off one head and they sprout 2 more.


Ephesians 2:8-9
New King James Version


8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, AND THAT not of yourselves; it is gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Works alone is the no no.

Faith without works is dead.

Keep it in context.

Works are required....along with faith...along with righteousness.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Therefore, salvation preceded repentance and believing.

Even though you quoted Jonah, you contradicted what was written in Jonah, i.e. that repentance came FIRST and salvation came AFTER. So if you are here to promote Calvinistic nonsense, you might be better off on the Puritan Board (or something similar).

 

[EddieRamos]

Umm, I think, the question of the OP is simple that not all who believe will be saved as in the case of the Devil.
The scripture in Acts 16:31 says he is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Did The jailer believe in Christ? Yes, he did and he was saved. Because such "belief in Christ" is needed in order to be saved and as not "Believe" only as the title of the OP says.

Thanks for your reply, but if you didn't know that the OP was indeed referring to Christ, then you'd be the first. Who else would be in view when we're talking about the scriptures? But, just to clarify, yes, I did mean "Not all who believe in Christ would be saved". Now, why would I say something like that? Precisely for the reason of your post. Because there are many who take the scriptures at face value (based on no hermeneutic found in the scriptures) rather than looking at the scriptures as a whole for true doctrine. Rather than letting the Bible as a whole determine what God means by "believe" and not what we determine it to mean.

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900)
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Now, if we examine the passage closely, the jailer obviously wanted to know how to become saved. There is nothing uncommon here so far, as many have wondered the same thing. And then he is told to "believe in Jesus" and he would be saved. "Presto", some would say. How clear is that? The problem is that we cannot let ourselves be led to a conclusion based on a few passages that seem to say the same thing. This is where the hermeneutic problem comes in. Everything in the Bible has to agree with our conclusion before we can be sure that we understand what seems to be an apparently plain statement. Also, if we look at the Greek word (poieō ) that God used here, which is translated as "do" (what must I do...), we'll notice that it identifies with DO-ing work. It's Strong's #G4160 for anyone who wants to look it up and see). And this agrees with the fact that "believing" is indeed a work, as it is a commandment that requires obedience, just like don't steal, don't lie, etc. which don't save anyone, but rather these works are evidence of salvation, not prerequisites. Else these would be too.

Matthew 19:17–19 (KJV 1900)
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

But, back to the jailer. There are some who approach a passage like Acts 12:31 by asking, "how did the jailer understand what was said to him? But again, this is the Word of God, and if we think truth is found by placing ourselves in their shoes, then we have to be able to substantiate it with the scriptures, and the scriptures don't teach us to do that, our own fallible logic does. God spoke many things in the scriptures to the nation of Israel, and even though they took what God said at face value, those words were actually written to have another truth altogether, a more valuable truth, a spiritual truth which the nation of Israel, at the time, had no idea of.

1 Corinthians 9:8–11 (KJV 1900)
Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. 11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

So, here we are taught the opposite of what the literal historical grammatical method of interpretation teaches. That we are not to put ourselves in the shoes of the ones who received the word to see how they understood it. It's the same here with what was said to the jailer and what he did, which was "believe". There is much information that needs to be pieced together to understand how he came to believe in the first place, or where the desire to truly become saved came from. It wasn't from seeing the miracles because the Bible is full of miracles done by God, much greater than shaking a prison, opening doors and loosing chains, and yet the ones who saw the miracles still did not believe. These are questions that only the Bible can answer and which will give us a much broader perspective of the true process of salvation, rather than interpreting everything based on one apparently plain passage, as you have done with John 8.

Because the OP would like to discredit what the plain scripture says, then we will consider the other examples and see them in the proper context.
In John 8, we have different audiences when Christ taught them in the temple as all people gathered.
1) The believing Jews
2) The unbelieving Jews.
Simply, not all of them that heard Christ believed.

Since I already covered the doctrine of believing in what the "plain" scriptures say, (which, if you could provide for me any scriptures that teach the widely accepted "literal historical grammatical method of interpretation", it would be a big help in knowing where your authority comes from, insofar as interpreting the scriptures are concerned. But, let's move on to John 8.

Here, you go into the context already assuming there must be 2 different audiences (believing and unbelieving Jews). You had to approach it this way because this is the only way your plain approach to understanding Acts 16:31 would make any sense. But let's not do that. Instead, let's approach the scriptures by letting the scriptures tell us who Jesus is addressing.

John 8:30–32 (KJV 1900)
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. (they believed on Jesus Christ, just as it was plainly told to the Philippian jailer to do. Does this mean they were saved? Let's see.).
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

So, why did Jesus place a stipulation here to those Jews which "believed" on him? If you continue in my word....ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free". But I thought they were instantly saved the moment they believed? Doesn't that instantly make them free? Why say to those Jews which believed on him "IF" ye continue in my word? This is conditional, but true salvation is unconditional. So, in order for these Jews which believed on Jesus to be made free they have to continue in his word? Of course, this is a huge red flag that we need to pay closer attention here rather than dismissing them as instantly saved because they believed.

Now, the dialogue continues specifically between Jesus and those Jews which believed on him (because we have no evidence that he is speaking to anyone else). We know this because they responded to his previous words about being made free, which was spiritual, but they took it at face value.

John 8:33 (KJV 1900)
They answered him.....

John 8:34 (KJV 1900)
Jesus answered them...

The Christ repeats himself to them about being made free, and then comes the condemnation once again.

John 8:36–37 & 44 (KJV 1900)
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 44 Ye are of your father the devil....

Nowhere here does the text suggest that Jesus was speaking to 2 groups of people from verse 30 and on. Everything that was said was between Jesus and those Jews which believed on him. Which obviously did nothing for their spiritual condition. And that was the point of God recording for us the whole dialogue this way. To be able to see that there is a problem with just saying that believing in Jesus will save you, no questions asked. No, this shows us that there is far more to this doctrine that leaning on the plain and simple statements we pick.

 

[EddieRamos]

Acts 8 in the case of Simon the Sorcerer and why I believe he is not saved. Such belief of Simon is not focused on Christ. It is centered in the signs and wonders which were given to the Apostles solely. Anyone that does not believe in Christ in the Bible is flat wrong. The title of OP on the other hand simply says belief only cannot save. I believe as we go to the scripture of such belief of course does not focus on Christ and his gospel. So my answer is YES if not on Christ and his gospel. The scripture, however, is clear that “ALL” who believes in Christ becomes the child of God John1:12; John 20:31 etc.) and there are no complications. You only needed to rightly divide his words.

As far as Acts 8 is concerned, we are not told that Simon believed for gain or for power. But we are told that, in the context of what was being preached (which was Jesus Christ), that he believed also as the other did. The only difference is that for him, making the decision to believe, was of no avail.

Acts 8:12–13 (KJV 1900)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

We can also read it this way to get a clearer picture of what Simon believed in. According to the text, it was the preaching of Jesus Christ.

"But when they believed Philip preaching...Jesus Christ...Then Simon himself believed also..."

This is why we don't take the scriptures at face value and conclude with one passage that "ALL" who believes in Christ becomes the child of God. We have plenty of evidence that the scriptures, as a whole, disagree with that conclusion. Therefore, we are forced to dig deeper for harmony between all the relevant passages of scripture.

 

[fredoheaven]

Well, fortunately we are not the ones who get to define what faith is, because, if so, there will always be divisions, as you can see. But when we let the Bible teach us whether it's a work or not, then we can be sure.

God's words tells us that faith alone cannot save because faith alone is dead. It must be accompanied by works in order to save.

James 2:14 (KJV)
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (The answer is no, as the following verse will teach this).

James 2:19-20 (KJV) 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:17 (KJV) 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Saving faith without works is dead faith. Could this faith save anyone? The Bible says no.

Another misconception in the book James pertaining to justification by faith.

Saving faith does not need or require the works of man so that man might be saved. What James is saying is the historical, mental assent or mere "profession of faith" that cannot save. As per context, James is telling us of a faith that does not work is like having the faith of the Devil which is actually a dead faith. Contrary to the popular belief of those works salvationists that justification by faith of James is against the justification of faith by Paul. However, the two options never contradict each other. as Paul viewed such justification by faith under God's perspective, whereas, James is viewed under man's perspective. Thus the context is full of what man can do to show his belief. James says the ff:
v.14 "if a man may say" (man's viewpoint)
v.15 If a brother or sister (man's viewpoint)
v.16 "..needful of the body" (man's viewpoint)
v. 20 "vain man" etc.
Btw, if you are looking for a passage/s that says "profession of faith" then you are on the right spot which you just posted. James 2:14, 16, 18 speaks of "...though a man may say" " one of you say" " a man may say..." and exactly these were not saving faith in Christ.

 

[EddieRamos]

ok not chosen again

I do not believe in predestination according to Calvin

What about predestination according to the Bible? What does it mean as per the Bible?

I do not believe God has created people as fodder for the fire

Again, what we personally believe has no bearing on truth. We should always be asking, what does the Bible teach?

Romans 9:21-23 (KJV) 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump (Jacob and Esau were the original example of this) to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

I believe Jesus died for the world as the Bible states, but certainly not universalism...not all accept Christ, but we do have a choice...in fact that is illustrated by the example you give...you see it as they walked away because God said not you, not you and not you and not those other guys either.

They walked away because they were not chosen. They are like the seed that fell on the rock.

Luke 8:13 (KJV) 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation (testing) fall away.

The Word of God is always testing those who profess to be Christians to see who will fall away from the truth. And it will always be those whose seed fell anywhere but on the good soil. Because the ones that fell on good soil are they which God himself has planted.

Matthew 15:13 (KJV) 13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

well this is hardly revelatory. where do you think Calvinists say they get their doctrine from?

Everyone gets their doctrines from the Bible, and sadly, even beyond the Bible. This is why it doesn't matter who Calvin is nor what he taught. He was right on some things, but then again, so are catholics, so are Jehovas witnesses, so are Pentecostals, and any other religion you can name. They all have atheist some type of truth in what they teach, but it doesn't mean the doctrine belongs to them.

If the Bible teaches a particular truth, then let's go with that and search further.

 

[fredoheaven]

Rather than letting the Bible as a whole determine what God means by "believe" and not what we determine it to mean.

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900)
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Now, if we examine the passage closely, the jailer obviously wanted to know how to become saved. There is nothing uncommon here so far, as many have wondered the same thing. And then he is told to "believe in Jesus" and he would be saved. "Presto", some would say. How clear is that? The problem is that we cannot let ourselves be led to a conclusion based on a few passages that seem to say the same thing. This is where the hermeneutic problem comes in. Everything in the Bible has to agree with our conclusion before we can be sure that we understand what seems to be an apparently plain statement. Also, if we look at the Greek word (poieō ) that God used here, which is translated as "do" (what must I do...), we'll notice that it identifies with DO-ing work. It's Strong's #G4160 for anyone who wants to look it up and see). And this agrees with the fact that "believing" is indeed a work, as it is a commandment that requires obedience, just like don't steal, don't lie, etc. which don't save anyone, but rather these works are evidence of salvation, not prerequisites. Else these would be too.

Umm, Let’s try your “do”. The Philippian jailor indeed knows nothing of salvation by grace through faith. Did Paul say, he must do, doing something? Nop, he says “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ” and the Jailor has nothing to do, he has to believe in Christ. Btw, did Paul command him to obey? Or it is the Jailor that asked it? It seems, there are indeed misunderstood words here, something I found as a fallacy in your presentation. You try to redefine words taking “believe” as works when in fact they are different. Saving faith of course is evidence by works but this is not the subject. Actually, it is not a question of what you do but what he did.

 

[fredoheaven]

Matthew 19:17–19 (KJV 1900)
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

But, back to the jailer. There are some who approach a passage like Acts 12:31 by asking, "how did the jailer understand what was said to him? But again, this is the Word of God, and if we think truth is found by placing ourselves in their shoes, then we have to be able to substantiate it with the scriptures, and the scriptures don't teach us to do that, our own fallible logic does. God spoke many things in the scriptures to the nation of Israel, and even though they took what God said at face value, those words were actually written to have another truth altogether, a more valuable truth, a spiritual truth which the nation of Israel, at the time, had no idea of.

The passage above you quoted is out of the context as per "believe" is concerned. It has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[fredoheaven]

Here, you go into the context already assuming there must be 2 different audiences (believing and unbelieving Jews). You had to approach it this way because this is the only way your plain approach to understanding Acts 16:31 would make any sense. But let's not do that. Instead, let's approach the scriptures by letting the scriptures tell us who Jesus is addressing.

John 8:30–32 (KJV 1900)
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. (they believed on Jesus Christ, just as it was plainly told to the Philippian jailer to do. Does this mean they were saved? Let's see.).
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

So, why did Jesus place a stipulation here to those Jews which "believed" on him? If you continue in my word....ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free". But I thought they were instantly saved the moment they believed? Doesn't that instantly make them free? Why say to those Jews which believed on him "IF" ye continue in my word? This is conditional, but true salvation is unconditional. So, in order for these Jews which believed on Jesus to be made free they have to continue in his word? Of course, this is a huge red flag that we need to pay closer attention here rather than dismissing them as instantly saved because they believed.

Now, the dialogue continues specifically between Jesus and those Jews which believed on him (because we have no evidence that he is speaking to anyone else). We know this because they responded to his previous words about being made free, which was spiritual, but they took it at face value.

John 8:33 (KJV 1900)
They answered him.....

John 8:34 (KJV 1900)
Jesus answered them...

The Christ repeats himself to them about being made free, and then comes the condemnation once again.

John 8:36–37 & 44 (KJV 1900)
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 44 Ye are of your father the devil....

Nowhere here does the text suggest that Jesus was speaking to 2 groups of people from verse 30 and on. Everything that was said was between Jesus and those Jews which believed on him. Which obviously did nothing for their spiritual condition. And that was the point of God recording for us the whole dialogue this way. To be able to see that there is a problem with just saying that believing in Jesus will save you, no questions asked. No, this shows us that there is far more to this doctrine that leaning on the plain and simple statements we pick.

Of course, you did not consider those two(2) sets of listeners. Those who believe that if they continue, they would be called his disciples. Of course, not all of the listeners are scribes and Pharisees. If you just knit pick something. you are correct but if you consider the context as Jesus went to the Temple as he taught "ALL" people around him, you will of course consider not only the Pharisees and the scribes but all walks of life.

 

[fredoheaven]

As far as Acts 8 is concerned, we are not told that Simon believed for gain or for power. But we are told that, in the context of what was being preached (which was Jesus Christ), that he believed also as the other did. The only difference is that for him, making the decision to believe, was of no avail.

Acts 8:12–13 (KJV 1900)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

We can also read it this way to get a clearer picture of what Simon believed in. According to the text, it was the preaching of Jesus Christ.

"But when they believed Philip preaching...Jesus Christ...Then Simon himself believed also..."

This is why we don't take the scriptures at face value and conclude with one passage that "ALL" who believes in Christ becomes the child of God. We have plenty of evidence that the scriptures, as a whole, disagree with that conclusion. Therefore, we are forced to dig deeper for harmony between all the relevant passages of scripture.

On Simon the sorcerer. Is he saved? Here are some reasons why I believe he was not.

1. Simon's heart. Per Peter, his heart is not right in the sight of God. People may have seen his faith, his baptism but God did not see him of repentant heart vv21-22. God sees the heart and for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness Rom. 10:10
2. Simon's spirit. Peter understand, he was in a bitter spirit, which is not the kind of those who have been freed by the Holy Spirit like in Acts 2:41 where believing souls were glad enough.
3. Simon's sins. The bond of iniquity is an indicator that his sins are not forgiven not only because he offered them money. In that case, Peter should advise him to confess his sin but Peter said he needs to repent.

 

[peldom10]

Works guys are like hydras. Chop off one head and they sprout 2 more.


Ephesians 2:8-9
New King James Version


8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, AND THAT not of yourselves; it is gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Scripture has addressed works in a manner that no one can properly think they can achieve eternal salvation by ......works alone.
New age religion types are trying to teach that a Christian should do no works or else they are guilty. That is a clear deception from God's word.
A Christian is commanded to devote time as a ambassador for Christ on earth. Properly doing that, which we attempt here on this forum is works for Christ. Few, with any, would do such without faith in Christ. Thus faith ........without works ...is dead.

Amen

 

[Yokemeister]

The Hebraic meaning of “faith” is trust-grounded obedience. Initially and on-going. Enabled by the Holy Spirit. Received by the believing heart, exercised by the obedient heart, dependent on our Advocate, not on works apart from trust.

 

[PennEd]

Scripture has addressed works in a manner that no one can properly think they can achieve eternal salvation by ......works alone.

As Jesus sweat drops of blood in Gethdamane praying to His Father if there be any other way, I don’t think the answer was , “yes Son, Your sacrificial death, PLUS the works of the believers, will get them to Heaven!”

A good tree bear’s good fruit because it is a good tree.

The good fruit in NO WAY makes the tree good.

You are a child of God if you are born again. You are born again if you hear the One True Gospel and believe.

At that moment you are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption into your glorified body.

 

[EddieRamos]

well, even here looks like we can disobey. right? I mean all the commandments have been broken and we know that not everyone believes...now love one another is often disobeyed...but there it is just the same

I never thought Peter was begging or pleading...he had just been filled with the Holy Spirit with visible 'tongues of fire', was speaking in tongues along with the rest in the upper room and with that imbuement of power from God through His Spirit, addressed the crowd

the Holy Spirit convicts and convinces...does not force, but there is not other power to compare to Him

if you have ever had this experience, you would not doubt it

Everyone, whether saved or unsaved, do not keep all of God's commandments in their flesh. If anyone sought to be justified by keeping any commandment, including "believe", then they are trusting in a work of righteousness they have done. And by man's works of righteousness they were never saved.

But we have to ask why his disciples left? Jesus teaches us that it was because they were not chosen. So, the next thing to search the scriptures for is, on what merit was one chosen?
The Bible answers.

Ephesians 1:4-5 (KJV) 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children (this says we have been predestined unto salvation) by Jesus Christ to himself, ACCORDING (here is the merit by which God chose) according to the good pleasure of his will,

That's it. Predestination unto salvation was according to the good pleasure of his will. This teaches us that when men came to Jesus craving to be healed (saved) that it's because they were drawn by God. Like fish are drawn by a net. This is how God helps us define the word "draw". Fish are not convinced nor compelled to come into the net.

Matthew 4:19 (KJV) 19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.

 

[peldom10]

As Jesus sweat drops of blood in Gethdamane praying to His Father if there be any other way, I don’t think the answer was , “yes Son, Your sacrificial death, PLUS the works of the believers, will get them to Heaven!”

A good tree bear’s good fruit because it is a good tree.

The good fruit in NO WAY makes the tree good.

You are a child of God if you are born again. You are born again if you hear the One True Gospel and believe.

At that moment you are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption into your glorified body.

There u go again..".works are wrong"....."faith without works is dead"...means nothing to your thinking.

Geesscchh.

 

[EddieRamos]

Here are some misconceptions regarding John 1:12.

First, this is not an Arminian view. It is a Bible view.

Second, Yes, we are not born again physically but spiritually, not the will of man (physically begat)but it is God’s will (spiritually begat either by God’s word and his Spirit James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:23

Third, Yes, it is God’s will that ALL must believe in Christ to be saved or have eternal life (John 3:15-16, John 6:47; John 20:31) ). Of course, nothing here is contradictory about receiving or believing Christ to become a child of God. It is God’s will to all to receive or believe him and become a child of God.

Ok, so we agree that the word "born" here is speaking about being born again, meaning saved. I followed you that far, but your next sentence does not agree with the rest of scriptures here.

You understood the next part of the verse which says that we're not born again by the will of man, to mean that we're not physically born again? If I misunderstood please correct me. But of course no one is physically born again, it can only be spiritually speaking about salvation. So let's read it with that understanding.

John 1:11-13 (KJV) 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. (This was because God blinded them)12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God (to be saved), even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born (meaning "born again", or "became sons of God" or "were saved"),

-not of blood, (meaning, they were saved, not based on blood line, like the being a physicall descendant of Abraham).
-nor of the will of the flesh, (Meaning, they were saved, not by man's own will)
-nor of the will of man, (again, not saved by man's own will).
but of God. (But they were saved by God's own will)

James 1:18 (KJV) 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Everyone who was ever saved, was saved, not based on who they were, nor based by their desire or effort or will, but by God's own will. And God’s will is that none perish.

2 Peter 3:8-9 (KJV)
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Yet because people do perish, people reinterpret the word "willing" to mean "permissive will". In other words, God is hoping no one perishes. But that is not so. God’s will is perfect and the context shows us that every human being is not the focus of who God is not willing should perish. It's not the world but the beloved. Those who were loved by Jesus Christ and had their sins paid for.

This is what it means to be born again by the will of God. And since God is the one who granted repentance to the acknowledgingof the truth, we can see that all the work of salvation was in the hands (by the will) of God.

Please look at the life of Saul of Tarsus who was set forth as an example of everyone who would later believe. Did he come to Christ because he first believed? No, he persecuted those who spoke in the name of Christ. He rejected him. Yet, all the while, like a stubborn mule who kicks against the pricks, he was trying to resist what he was going against was he was chosen for. Salvation. All the while Saul was persecuting Christ, God (in his own time, not ours) revealed to Paul that Christ was already in Him. Meaning, Saul was an elect child of God.

Galatians 1:15-16 (KJV)
But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

lastly, just because God commands something to be done (as he dies all throughout the Bible) doesn't mean we can, at oun own will, do it.. Especially when it comes to salvation.

Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV)
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Romans 2:28-29 (KJV)
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV)
And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.