Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.
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The rapture is in the bible. The NT was written in Greek and Paul used the Greek word for rapture, Harpazo.
The main problem trying to use OT scriptures on the GT is that Christ revealed that the length of the GT was going to be shorter than originally intended so that's going to greatly affect prophecies written before this change was decided.
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
There is no 7 year tribulation anymore. We all know there is a 42 month or 3.5 year tribulation in Rev 13. We also know in the gospels Christ spoke of the time of the tribulation being shortened, Matthew 24:22. Since we have a current prophecy of 3.5 years then we know it was originally longer (likely 7 years) and later shortened.
So, we won't have a 7 year trib but will have a 3.5 year long tribulation. This begins with the first beast, continues with the second beast and ends when Christ arrives at the second coming.
To shorten something means it was a certain length of time, then it was shortened to a shorter amount of time.
Mar_13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. (the original time will be shorter to benefit the elect)
No one would survive the original length of the trib so for the sake of the elect, God will shorten the trib so they can survive. This is why Paul declares some Christians will be alive and remain unto the coming of Christ.They would not have survived had the trib been it's original length.
Here we see that Jesus says the Great Tribulation was shortened. That means OT prophecy had a longer Great Tribulation than the actual Great Tribulation shall be. That is an example of a change God made to OT prophecy. In Daniel we have a 7 year trib but in Revelation we have a 3.5 year trib. God literally cut the trib in half. Going by OT prophecy alone you would have the wrong length.
No, but that doesn't mean the Great Tribulation is wrath from God. It is satan's wrath that is allowed to happen by God. Same thing when Job suffered tribulation from satan.
Agree, Jews kill Stephen, it happen with God allowance, it doesn't mean God persecute Stephen. It is Jews that persecute Stephen. According rev 13 During 7years some Christian go to jail, some killed, that persecution is by devil, not God
Wrath of the devil is during 7 years tribulation where Christian being persecte
Rev 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
It is impossible wrath of God doing above
Than wrath of God come
Rev 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
It is impossible wrath of God doing above
Than wrath of God come
"before the flood"
Turn that one around.
Personal attacks = you are outta gas....correct?
Omit the rapture verses.
POOOOOF!
Postrib rapture created in your circles.
We have blown a hole in your deal a ship can sail through.
Produce a verse please.
You have been asked.
You do not have any
That will happen according Daniel 8
19 He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end.[c] 20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king. 22 The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power.
23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise. 24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does.
He will destroy those who are mighty, the holy people.
25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.
Verse 24 last sentence
Holy people will destroyed
Who is holy people? Christian so Greece/ may be European and Persian may be Arab, will persecute christian
19 He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end.[c] 20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king. 22 The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power.
23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise. 24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does.
He will destroy those who are mighty, the holy people.
25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.
Verse 24 last sentence
Holy people will destroyed
Who is holy people? Christian so Greece/ may be European and Persian may be Arab, will persecute christian
If you feel attacked for being incorrect, I apologize for that insecurity and pray that you will overcome it through Christ!
You have done no such thing.
You have presented me with Scripture that are out of context to where it was written compared to the Verses before and after and removed those Scriptures and compulated them into something that they were never meant to mean.
I am just baffled at the attempt to justify it by your side of the debate.
Jesus said before the flood.
That actually meant before the flood.
Then, IN THAT TIME FRAME he said it would be his return.
Mat 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Jesus said it.
I know you dont like it.
How do you spin it to fit a post flood model?
Psssst...you do realize your model has noah taken up post flood correct?
"""You have presented me with Scripture that are out of context"""
You made the accusation.
Show me specifically.
Post the verse
Show me your interpretation and why mine is wrong.
Do not dodge, or go into some false deficiencies of your opponent.
Get a bible and lets go.
I know what Christ said, but what was happening before the Flood?
The people did not Believe it would rain and they continued with every day life.
It's the same with the Tribulation, no one is preparing for that like they did not prepare before the Flood.
If you falsely portray your brother in that false derogatory light then it is you that needs forgiveness.
Try and come up a little higher ok?
Get a bible and go toe to toe.
Stop trying to be "safe" by your responses with no verses behind a thing you are posting
You are presenting Scripture but out of context and I just explained that in my previous post.
You left out he is saying his RETURN is in the timeframe "before the flood"
You think a snapshot of people milling around the planet answers my point of WHAT IT SAYS?
If someone is so thin skinned they cry foul, they are mentally weak and not very secure in their position and walk in God.
Have I cried foul to your accusations and statements?
No, why should I, this is a debate, not kindergarten.