Devotion to the Apostles' Teaching

[Blain]

I am not offended.
Just because you believe the love of God has waxed cold in the many churches you have visited does not mean that is true in all or most.
Just how Christian is it for you or me to make a judgment of all based on a very limited knowledge of all?

Identifying a problem is not judging if I were to judge them I would speak ill of them I would call them names and I would use scripture as a weapon to put them down and make note of all their flaws.
If one is not living according to how we should as believers is not part of our job to exhort one another and help guide each other to remain on the correct path?

If there is a lack of love in a brother who calls themselves Christian we are to remind them of how one as a believer is to be, it isn't even just Christians that I have spoken to that affirm my words.
about a year and half ago I met a transgender who I became friends with they had no knowledge I was a Christian before hand and when I told them they were shocked because she told me I am the first actual Christian she ever met because every other church she went to or any other Christian would attack her or look down on here and she tried to commit suicide because she felt God must truly hate her and be disgusted with her so she thought she was doing God and everyone else a favor.

Another person in my life is a well known athiest because all he saw with other Christians was judgement and looking down on others while elvating themselves to be holy. Even I have been exposed to those eyes that are like arrows when I walked into a church in my pokemon shirt and hat they whispered to each other as I walked by. Another one even still is in prison now because he killed a gay person claiming to be doing God's will. I have seen the darker side of the church and again I am not saying all are like this but even if it weren't for the lack of love many are Christian by title only because they do all the right the things they go to church they pray they serve the needy they know the bible like the back of their hands yet they have no real relationship with God.
Again I ask where is that zeal? where is that fire? where is the almost unbearable hunger and thirst thjjat cannot be sated or quenched? That deep longing and craving to know him more even if just a little more the constant striving to go deeper into the fold of his love and wonder? To be filled to the brim with the kind of love that the human heart doesn't know but only comes from his?

 

[RichMan]

Identifying a problem is not judging if I were to judge them I would speak ill of them I would call them names and I would use scripture as a weapon to put them down and make note of all their flaws.
If one is not living according to how we should as believers is not part of our job to exhort one another and help guide each other to remain on the correct path?

If there is a lack of love in a brother who calls themselves Christian we are to remind them of how one as a believer is to be, it isn't even just Christians that I have spoken to that affirm my words.
about a year and half ago I met a transgender who I became friends with they had no knowledge I was a Christian before hand and when I told them they were shocked because she told me I am the first actual Christian she ever met because every other church she went to or any other Christian would attack her or look down on here and she tried to commit suicide because she felt God must truly hate her and be disgusted with her so she thought she was doing God and everyone else a favor.

Another person in my life is a well known athiest because all he saw with other Christians was judgement and looking down on others while elvating themselves to be holy. Even I have been exposed to those eyes that are like arrows when I walked into a church in my pokemon shirt and hat they whispered to each other as I walked by. Another one even still is in prison now because he killed a gay person claiming to be doing God's will. I have seen the darker side of the church and again I am not saying all are like this but even if it weren't for the lack of love many are Christian by title only because they do all the right the things they go to church they pray they serve the needy they know the bible like the back of their hands yet they have no real relationship with God.
Again I ask where is that zeal? where is that fire? where is the almost unbearable hunger and thirst thjjat cannot be sated or quenched? That deep longing and craving to know him more even if just a little more the constant striving to go deeper into the fold of his love and wonder? To be filled to the brim with the kind of love that the human heart doesn't know but only comes from his?

Here is my problem with your post.
You have visited a few local churches and have determined they lack zeal and fire.
You also seem to include all who claim to be a Christian.
Claiming to be a Christian does not make it so.
Now you have determined that all local churches lack zeal and fire.
There are tens of thousands of local churches that you know nothing about and to say they are lacking in anything is judging them.

 

[RichMan]

Identifying a problem is not judging if I were to judge them I would speak ill of them I would call them names and I would use scripture as a weapon to put them down and make note of all their flaws.
If one is not living according to how we should as believers is not part of our job to exhort one another and help guide each other to remain on the correct path?

If there is a lack of love in a brother who calls themselves Christian we are to remind them of how one as a believer is to be, it isn't even just Christians that I have spoken to that affirm my words.
about a year and half ago I met a transgender who I became friends with they had no knowledge I was a Christian before hand and when I told them they were shocked because she told me I am the first actual Christian she ever met because every other church she went to or any other Christian would attack her or look down on here and she tried to commit suicide because she felt God must truly hate her and be disgusted with her so she thought she was doing God and everyone else a favor.

Another person in my life is a well known athiest because all he saw with other Christians was judgement and looking down on others while elvating themselves to be holy. Even I have been exposed to those eyes that are like arrows when I walked into a church in my pokemon shirt and hat they whispered to each other as I walked by. Another one even still is in prison now because he killed a gay person claiming to be doing God's will. I have seen the darker side of the church and again I am not saying all are like this but even if it weren't for the lack of love many are Christian by title only because they do all the right the things they go to church they pray they serve the needy they know the bible like the back of their hands yet they have no real relationship with God.
Again I ask where is that zeal? where is that fire? where is the almost unbearable hunger and thirst thjjat cannot be sated or quenched? That deep longing and craving to know him more even if just a little more the constant striving to go deeper into the fold of his love and wonder? To be filled to the brim with the kind of love that the human heart doesn't know but only comes from his?

Another note here.
Who gave you the authority to decide when another person is not living in close fellowship with God.


















Just because he does not meet your standards does not make it so.

 

[JTB]

Here is my problem with your post.
You have visited a few local churches and have determined they lack zeal and fire.
You also seem to include all who claim to be a Christian.
Claiming to be a Christian does not make it so.
Now you have determined that all local churches lack zeal and fire.
There are tens of thousands of local churches that you know nothing about and to say they are lacking in anything is judging them.

It seems you are reading with the intent to respond, not understand.

For if you understood what he said, you would not be responding in this way.

That kind of thing occurs when love grows cold.

So it would seem that you are even proving his point.

 

[RichMan]

It seems you are reading with the intent to respond, not understand.

For if you understood what he said, you would not be responding in this way.

That kind of thing occurs when love grows cold.

So it would seem that you are even proving his point.

Amazing!
A person makes a judgment of all local churches based on his limited knowledge of a few, and you have determined my love has grown cold because I called him out.
Ya'll have fun in your judging others.

 

[Blain]

Another note here.
Who gave you the authority to decide when another person is not living in close fellowship with God.


















Just because he does not meet your standards does not make it so.

It isn't my standards they fail to live up to it's God's. Anyone can claim to be a Christian but it takes more than just playing church to be a Christian, a true Christian lives life with love they don't just play church on sundays and then go home and live like the world. A true Christian is recognized by the love they show and for the spirit that is seen through them, I have what you can call discerning of spirits I have just always been able to sense the love and spirit of God in people kind of like an aura people give off so it isn't authority that makes me say one isn't living like we should it is just something I am able to sense I am unable to turn it off.
But even if were not for that it isn't hard to see how spiteful and hateful people in the church can be and don't be mistaken when I say church I mean the body of Christ too not just a building.

Take Christian chat for instance, the good thing about being on a forum is that people often show who they really are and what they truly think and believe because there is safety in being behind a screen, the bible discussion forum well known for the hatred and attacks shown in debates far to often the word of God is misused and mistreated sometimes even to be specifically as a weapon against others.

We are fallen as a body not because we aren't saved but because we have strayed we allow our darker side to take over and forget to have love patience and joy in each other. we allow our differences to over ride what we know we are supposed to be. I am not innocent either sometimes I too allow my emotions to take over but you see I know the problem in the body and those who see and know the problem in the body have the obligation to try to fix it rather than stand by and let it become swollen.

This is why it is so important to be able to discern and see where the body is sick and wounded but if you fail to see a sickness or illness it will infest the rest of the body as well. The same goes for all others who see and know the problem they have an obligation to be a part of the solution to show God's love and wisdom in all they say on here to instruct and help guide reproof and edify. You can try to defend the church and that is all well and good but if you refuse to see the illness in the church it will only infect the rest of the body as well that is how the enemy works so yes I do say the church is in a fallen state but that also makes me responsible to try to help fix it.

 

[Blik]

Another note here.
Who gave you the authority to decide when another person is not living in close fellowship with God.

Just because he does not meet your standards does not make it so.

We are supposed to live is such a way that our light shines, our close fellowship with God according to scripture is to be such that it can be seen. I have seen it in a Christian family, but it is rare they so listen to Christ with such strong belief in Him that Christ can be seen in their lifes.

 

[Aaron56]

This is why it is so important to be able to discern and see where the body is sick and wounded but if you fail to see a sickness or illness it will infest the rest of the body as well.

Yes.

And don't take Blain's word for it. He has it on good authority...

From the letter to the church in Laodicea:
"You say, ‘I am rich; I have grown wealthy and need nothing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see. Those I love, I rebuke and discipline. Therefore be earnest and repent."

I will share more about the order of the church perhaps here or in a new thread.

 

[RichMan]

It isn't my standards they fail to live up to it's God's. Anyone can claim to be a Christian but it takes more than just playing church to be a Christian, a true Christian lives life with love they don't just play church on sundays and then go home and live like the world. A true Christian is recognized by the love they show and for the spirit that is seen through them, I have what you can call discerning of spirits I have just always been able to sense the love and spirit of God in people kind of like an aura people give off so it isn't authority that makes me say one isn't living like we should it is just something I am able to sense I am unable to turn it off.
But even if were not for that it isn't hard to see how spiteful and hateful people in the church can be and don't be mistaken when I say church I mean the body of Christ too not just a building.

Take Christian chat for instance, the good thing about being on a forum is that people often show who they really are and what they truly think and believe because there is safety in being behind a screen, the bible discussion forum well known for the hatred and attacks shown in debates far to often the word of God is misused and mistreated sometimes even to be specifically as a weapon against others.

We are fallen as a body not because we aren't saved but because we have strayed we allow our darker side to take over and forget to have love patience and joy in each other. we allow our differences to over ride what we know we are supposed to be. I am not innocent either sometimes I too allow my emotions to take over but you see I know the problem in the body and those who see and know the problem in the body have the obligation to try to fix it rather than stand by and let it become swollen.

This is why it is so important to be able to discern and see where the body is sick and wounded but if you fail to see a sickness or illness it will infest the rest of the body as well. The same goes for all others who see and know the problem they have an obligation to be a part of the solution to show God's love and wisdom in all they say on here to instruct and help guide reproof and edify. You can try to defend the church and that is all well and good but if you refuse to see the illness in the church it will only infect the rest of the body as well that is how the enemy works so yes I do say the church is in a fallen state but that also makes me responsible to try to help fix it.

Blain, it is not that I believe I do not see a lack of zeal and fire in the life of some church members, it is that I will limit that judgment only to those I have personal contact with.
But even then, I must be very careful because I may not know all that is going on in their life.
I agree, some may be in a fallen state, but since my contact is very limited, I will not take it upon myself to judge all as being in a fallen state.
We should limit our self to trying to help those we have personal contact with without deciding all need our help when we really do not know just where the majority stand with our Lord.
I do not know the state of the churches in your area, and you do not know the state of the churches in my area.

 

[Blain]

Blain, it is not that I believe I do not see a lack of zeal and fire in the life of some church members, it is that I will limit that judgment only to those I have personal contact with.
But even then, I must be very careful because I may not know all that is going on in their life.
I agree, some may be in a fallen state, but since my contact is very limited, I will not take it upon myself to judge all as being in a fallen state.
We should limit our self to trying to help those we have personal contact with without deciding all need our help when we really do not know just where the majority stand with our Lord.
I do not know the state of the churches in your area, and you do not know the state of the churches in my area.

I am not judges the church as a whole I am only saying that there are those who live in a fallen state and are asleep they have lost their devotion and love for him and for those who I am able to see this in I give correction and guidence for those who are not I do all I can to build up encourage and help strengthen,
Now if I were to judge the church as a whole in the same boat as being asleep that would be different but when the human body has an illness if left untreated it will affect the body as a whole but if the signs of an illness are seen and known then treated the body becomes healthy again.

It is good to understand that we don't know what is going on in peoples lives but it is also good to know the signs of one who is either in a fallen state or heading down that path so that we can help them to stay strong in him we live in the end of days and it was prophesied that love would wax cold that men would be boasters and lovers of themselves even in revelation Jesus only speaks good of one of the seven churches

But as I said before if I make the statement that the church is in a fallen state and needs to return to our first love then I am held responsible to be a part of the solution otherwise I am part of the problem., So I do not say these things lightly I say them knowing that it is my obligation to help fix it, anyone can say the church is fallen and living as they are asleep but if they do then they must also take the burden of ebing a apart of the problem otherwise they are just as responsible as those who have fallen asleep.