Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

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Jul 23, 2018
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1. You admit that there is Christian during tribulation, because there is people that not take the mark.
Than why you believe all Christian rapture before gt?
And they are beheaded.

No christians left.

No postrib rapture
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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1. You admit that there is Christian during tribulation, because there is people that not take the mark.
Than why you believe all Christian rapture before gt?
In the pre-trib view all the saints on earth who are alive at that time are taken in 1 Thes., along with all the saints who have lived and died in Christ from the beginning of time. There are no saints left on earth when the book of Rev. begins to unfold, and neither are there any remains left of those saints in the grave.

Can you prove from scripture this is incorrect?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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So because there are no Scripture that claims actual pre-trib rapture, but it is believed because no Scripture claims the Church goes through the Tribulation, there must be a Secret Coming?


How about, Jesus said He returns after Tribulation, Revelation 16 shows after God's Wrath Christ returns like a Thief?

That's 2 Verses that explains Christ returns afterwards, not any time before. And that means people (like Paul mentions) who are Alive and Remain will be Caught Up.

There's actually several Verses explaining why we remain until after Tribulation and God's Wrath than there are comparing that not one single Verse that states Secret Coming or we leave before.

If the Bible is Literal, it Literally is claiming we Remain until after Tribulation.
"""15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."""

Fits pretrib rapture like a glove.
Comes as a thief vividly depicted in mat 25, the 10 virgins where half are left in shame.....as the verse in rev declares.
Jesus changes gears in that verse to make that pretrib rapture starement.

He is not coming as a thief after the wrath .

I only know of one time where a thief came on millions of horses.

Oh wait....no it has never happened.
Psssst...all rapture verses are peacetime and normal life.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Matthew 24, Jesus, made it clear He only Returns one more time. Paul answers a question from those in Thessalonica about whether they would see their dead loved ones again and if those dead loved ones would go to Heaven. All Paul did was explain how the Process would take place + Paul made it clear it was at the Lord's Second Coming (Matthew 24).

Nowhere is there actual Scripture that states a Secret Coming. So why would anyone believe such a thing?
lol
Mat 24 CLEARLY depicts 2 completely separate comings.

Vivid and undeniable.

Psssst...noah before the flood.
( you need it to read " after the flood")

Then we have " one taken/left".

(That same ratio is given 5 or so sentences later in the 10 virgin parable. Basically in the same breath)
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Matthew 24, Jesus, made it clear He only Returns one more time. Paul answers a question from those in Thessalonica about whether they would see their dead loved ones again and if those dead loved ones would go to Heaven. All Paul did was explain how the Process would take place + Paul made it clear it was at the Lord's Second Coming (Matthew 24).

Nowhere is there actual Scripture that states a Secret Coming. So why would anyone believe such a thing?
Only the disciples were there in the Acts1 ascention.
Only disciples or followers of Jesus present in the 10 virgin parable.

2 in a bed, one taken, one left.

Maye you can find others.
But then again, your teachers steer you guys away from what is written.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
Your claim is a total error. The passage clearly speaks of gathering the elect from the 4 corners of the earth. That's all believers.
Doesn't matter what is said, what scripture is explained
And there is another error. I certainly DOES matter what the Bible says.

it all is just dismissed.
By you.

I have no time for you FG, you just get nastier and nastier with your attitude, I've seen it to many times!
If it's too hot in the kitchen, go to the basement, or some other cooler place in the house.

Basically, you know that you are unable to refute what I post and the verses I quote actually SAY what I believe.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Matthew 24, Jesus, made it clear He only Returns one more time. Paul answers a question from those in Thessalonica about whether they would see their dead loved ones again and if those dead loved ones would go to Heaven. All Paul did was explain how the Process would take place + Paul made it clear it was at the Lord's Second Coming (Matthew 24).

Nowhere is there actual Scripture that states a Secret Coming. So why would anyone believe such a thing?
Pretrib rapture flows perfectly with all of Paul's teaching
Fits like a glove
 
Jan 31, 2021
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The whole rapture thing is a mystery, David, not just what you choose to be a mystery.
Actually, it's not. It is rather clear as the Bible has presented it.

What is a mystery is why so many people continue to believe that Jesus comes in the clouds, resurrected and raptures believers and then takes them all up to heaven. The Bible says nothing about that.

As to a "rapture", all that means is that the living believers on earth when Jesus returns at the Second Advent will be "changed in the twinking of the eye" (1 Cor 15:52) and receive their glorified bodies.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
Your claim is a total error. The passage clearly speaks of gathering the elect from the 4 corners of the earth. That's all believers.

And there is another error. I certainly DOES matter what the Bible says.


By you.


If it's too hot in the kitchen, go to the basement, or some other cooler place in the house.

Basically, you know that you are unable to refute what I post and the verses I quote actually SAY what I believe.
FG, if you are going to break off my sentences and us only half of it to mislead what was said, I think I have given you to much credit as being honest on these forums.

That is the last straw for me, off to ignore you go!
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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In the pre-trib view all the saints on earth who are alive at that time are taken in 1 Thes., along with all the saints who have lived and died in Christ from the beginning of time. There are no saints left on earth when the book of Rev. begins to unfold, and neither are there any remains left of those saints in the grave.

Can you prove from scripture this is incorrect?
What part of 1 tes say it happen before gt?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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In the pre-trib view all the saints on earth who are alive at that time are taken in 1 Thes., along with all the saints who have lived and died in Christ from the beginning of time. There are no saints left on earth when the book of Rev. begins to unfold, and neither are there any remains left of those saints in the grave.

Can you prove from scripture this is incorrect?
The ac beheads those left behind depicted in mat 24 and 25.

They arrive in heaven as martyrs and are seen as an innumerable number.
Their robes were dirty and had to be washed.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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The post-trib view cannot be explained clearly either.
Those who are actually familiar with the Bible know this is just nonsense.

2 Thess 2:1-3 very plainly tells us WHEN "those who belong to Him" (1 Cor 15:23, Rev 20:5) will be given glorified bodies (resurrection).

Very simple, in fact.

It seems the post-tribbers think they have a open and shut case, better think again.
Since there are very clear verses that teach a single resurrection for all believers and 1 Cor 15:23 specifically says it will be "when He comes", it IS an open and shut case.

It is the pretribbers, who have NO verse saying that Jesus will resurrect and rapture believers and then take them to heaven.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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FG, if you are going to break off my sentences and us only half of it to mislead what was said, I think I have given you to much credit as being honest on these forums.

That is the last straw for me, off to ignore you go!
Wisdom on your part.
No fruit from exchanges.
I take that person off ignore once in a while just to challenge the absurdities.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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And they are beheaded.
During the Tribulation. Beheaded FOR Christ. Then "raised to life" (resurrection) and will reign with Christ during the Millennium.

No christians left.
When Jesus returns (when He comes - 1 Cor 15:23) and resurrects "those who belong to Him" (1 Cor 15:23) all believers will have received their glorified bodies.

There will be NO living mortal believers left.

No postrib rapture
Have you carefully cut 2 Thess 2:1-3 out of your Bible yet?

But don't stop there. Also remove MTT 22:30, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:23, 1 Cor 15:23 and Acts 26:23.

Because they all refute your position.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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What part of 1 tes say it happen before gt?
If the kids are in the classroom and the bus engine is cooling off in the parking lot , nobody is gonna say "prove" they didn't get there after school"

That is how absurd ANY POSTRIB rapture dynamic is.
"""But, but, show me where " black car" is written on the black car that hit the kid on the bike
.......Therefore no black car hit the kid"""

Intertaining and comical.

I destroy any possibility of postrib rapture.
I render it impossible.

They sit in ashes, ruined, and are oblivious
 
Jan 31, 2021
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In the pre-trib view all the saints on earth who are alive at that time are taken in 1 Thes., along with all the saints who have lived and died in Christ from the beginning of time. There are no saints left on earth when the book of Rev. begins to unfold, and neither are there any remains left of those saints in the grave.

Can you prove from scripture this is incorrect?
Easily.

There is only one resurrection of believers: Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:23, 1 Cor 15:23 and Acts 26:23.
The so-called rapture occurs with the resurrection.
2 Thess 2:1-3 times the rapture with the Second Advent.
1 Cor 15:23 clearly says that "those who belong to Him" (all believers) will be resurrected when He comes.

There CANNOT be a resurrection before the Trib since there is clearly a resurrection after the Trib. Rev 20:5.

This is irrefutable.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FG, if you are going to break off my sentences and us only half of it to mislead what was said, I think I have given you to much credit as being honest on these forums.

That is the last straw for me, off to ignore you go!
Wonder what took him so long?

He does need to choose his words more carefully, though.