Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

[DavidTree]

In the pre-trib view the church saints are taken out of the way on this earth at Rev. 4:1-2. John is the type of the rapture with the trumpet calling him up as Rev. is ready to unfold.

The resurrection of Rev. 20 is all the saints saved during the 70th week, a week of 7 years. Plus it includes the resurrection of the 144,000 Jews saved during this time.

The "first resurrection" of Rev. 20 is not speaking of a single resurrection but refers to all the saints of all time who have gone through the grave. This will include the church saints taken out before the tribulation. Together they are all who are in Christ and have gone through the grave. This is the resurrection of the just.

The second resurrection is of the unjust, they are all raised at the same time "after the 1000 years are finished" and will be present at the Great White Throne of Judgement.

John is called up to receive the Revelation of Jesus Christ and is sent back down to give it to the Church.

This is NO Rapture event for the Church but the complete OPPOSITE.

With the Apostle John now having the Revelation of Jesus Christ, the Church/Elect/Saints, are now given the CLEAR Instructions from the LORD as to what is coming and how to Overcome and what the REWARD is for Overcoming and the Penalty for compromise.

Remember Dear Brother Charlie24 and CV5 and all Others, to add to the words of Christ is SIN with deadly consequences.

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book. Rev 22:18-19

AVOID this at all cost = PEACE

 

[Charlie24]

John is called up to receive the Revelation of Jesus Christ and is sent back down to give it to the Church.

This is NO Rapture event for the Church but the complete OPPOSITE.

With the Apostle John now having the Revelation of Jesus Christ, the Church/Elect/Saints, are now given the CLEAR Instructions from the LORD as to what is coming and how to Overcome and what the REWARD is for Overcoming and the Penalty for compromise.

Remember Dear Brother Charlie24 and CV5 and all Others, to add to the words of Christ is SIN with deadly consequences.

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book. Rev 22:18-19

AVOID this at all cost = PEACE

John is a symbol of the rapture in Rev. 4:1-2. It's just one of many symbols in Rev., of course John was not actually raptured.

And there you go with your threats again and still you don't even understand what we are saying. Amazing!

 

[DavidTree]

John is a symbol of the rapture in Rev. 4:1-2. It's just one of many symbols in Rev., of course John was not actually raptured.

And there you go with your threats again and still you don't even understand what we are saying. Amazing!

#1.) i fully understand what you are saying
#2.) Revelation 22:18-19 applies to everyone, and i take it seriously.
#3.) No Church/Body/Bride/Elect/Saints are raptured until His Second Coming = Revelation ch6 - ch20.
#4.) Adding to Revelation is saying the Church is raptured in ch4
#5.) Taking away from Revelation is saying the Church is not mentioned after chapter 4.

 

[Charlie24]

I told you some weeks back @DavidTree that one resurrection in the end as you guys preach will not fulfill scripture.

Matt. 25:31-46 makes it clear that only the saved will enter into the millennium.

If all are resurrected at the end and receive their glorified bodies, there is no one left with natural bodies to replenish the earth during the millennium. This is why we have a pre-trib view which settles this.

 

[DavidTree]

I told you some weeks back @DavidTree that one resurrection in the end as you guys preach will not fulfill scripture.

Matt. 25:31-46 makes it clear that only the saved will enter into the millennium.

If all are resurrected at the end and receive their glorified bodies, there is no one left with natural bodies to replenish the earth during the millennium. This is why we have a pre-trib view which settles this.

There will be people left, just as God has promised.
Keep reading/studying.

How many people did God leave after the Flood?

 

[Charlie24]

There will be people left, just as God has promised.
Keep reading/studying.

How many people did God leave after the Flood?

OK, David, show us how anyone with a natural body makes into the millennium! Of course using the post-trib view.

 

[soberxp]

Why do you choose to understand in a way that cannot be explained clearly?
I just want to say that saints and Jesus may only manage the world in one day, because God sees thousands of years as one day.
The one day maybe the seventh day.

 

[Charlie24]

Why do you choose to understand in a way that cannot be explained clearly?
I just want to say that saints and Jesus may only manage the world in one day, because God sees thousands of years as one day.
The one day maybe the seventh day.

The post-trib view cannot be explained clearly either. Any way you see it there is filling in the lines and assuming.

It seems the post-tribbers think they have a open and shut case, better think again.

 

[soberxp]

The post-trib view cannot be explained clearly either. Any way you see it there is filling in the lines and assuming.

It seems the post-tribbers think they have a open and shut case, better think again.

It's just like the first resurrected people，after the first resurrection people was followed by us，we still on the earth today, we have not enter into the heaven and still remain on earth today.

In the same way, later people always stay on the earth.

In other words, the present, the past and the future are not resurrected at the same time. There is always a priority.

 

[oyster67]

Left Behind Secret Rapture is a lie made up by Satan.

The above statement is a lie, according to the Bible...

It tells us that we RISE and are caught UP before we come down with Him at His Second Coming:

1 Thess
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

While we are up there for 7 years, we participate in the Wedding. It is only then that we return back down with Him at His Second Coming:

Revelation
19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

 

[Jackson123]

While we are up there for 7 years, we participate in the Wedding. It is only then that we return back down with Him at His Second Coming:

What verse support your statement?

 

[Jackson123]

Rev 20
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.

They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

It seem to me people that had not worshiped the beast and not received it mark is Christian that experience great tribulation but refused to take the mark

So rapture happen after great tribulation

 

[Charlie24]

Rev 20
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.

They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

It seem to me people that had not worshiped the beast and not received it mark is Christian that experience great tribulation but refused to take the mark

So rapture happen after great tribulation

Who are the souls of those who had been beheaded? Are they the Church saints or those who were saved during the tribulation only?

Where is your scripture to make this determination? Do you have scripture for this or are you assuming these souls are the church saints?

 

[Jackson123]

Who are the souls of those who had been beheaded? Are they the Church saints or those who were saved during the tribulation only?

Where is your scripture to make this determination? Do you have scripture for this or are you assuming these souls are the church saints?

Beheaded can happen before or during tribulation, not taking the mark of the beast in this context point out during tribulation because if all people that not take the mark at all time reign in 1000 kd, than non Christian include, because Christian or non, don't have take the mark if the beast before tribulation

 

[Charlie24]

Beheaded can happen before or during tribulation, not taking the mark of the beast in this context point out during tribulation because if all people that not take the mark at all time reign in 1000 kd, than non Christian include, because Christian or non, don't have take the mark if the beast before tribulation

Where is your scriptural foundation on the church going through the tribulation?

That is what the post-trib view believes, so show us where that comes from in scripture.

 

[Jackson123]

Where is your scriptural foundation on the church going through the tribulation?

That is what the post-trib view believes, so show us where that comes from in scripture.

I just give the verse let me repeat it

Rev 20
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.

( read this part below) (1)1
They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Answer my question

A. Did non Christian take the mark of the beast before tribulation

B. Did non Christian that live before got reign in 1000 kd because not take the mark of the beast

C. Who is (1) above, are they non Christian that live before get or Christian that live during gt

 

[Charlie24]

I just give the verse let me repeat it

Rev 20
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.

( read this part below) (1)1
They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Answer my question

A. Did non Christian take the mark of the beast before tribulation

B. Did non Christian that live before got reign in 1000 kd because not take the mark of the beast

C. Who is (1) above, are they non Christian that live before get or Christian that live during gt

The beast is the anti-christ. How can anyone take the mark of the beast until he comes and demands that it be taken?

The pre-trib view states that ALL the tribulation saints went into the tribulation lost and came out saved.

They refused the mark of the beast and accepted Christ at some point during the 7 years.

Can you prove from scripture this is incorrect?

 

[Jackson123]

The beast is the anti-christ. How can anyone take the mark of the beast until he comes and demands that it be taken?

The pre-trib view states that ALL the tribulation saints went into the tribulation lost and came out saved.

They refused the mark of the beast and accepted Christ at some point during the 7 years.

Can you prove from scripture this is incorrect?

1. You admit that there is Christian during tribulation, because there is people that not take the mark.
Than why you believe all Christian rapture before gt?

 

[Absolutely]

Matthew 24, Jesus, made it clear He only Returns one more time. Paul answers a question from those in Thessalonica about whether they would see their dead loved ones again and if those dead loved ones would go to Heaven. All Paul did was explain how the Process would take place + Paul made it clear it was at the Lord's Second Coming (Matthew 24).

Nowhere is there actual Scripture that states a Secret Coming. So why would anyone believe such a thing?

That would require 1 thes 4, rev14:14, and the millions of white horses descending from heaven to all be the same thing.

That is a HUGE impossibility.

That alone destroys your position.

 

[Absolutely]

So because there are no Scripture that claims actual pre-trib rapture, but it is believed because no Scripture claims the Church goes through the Tribulation, there must be a Secret Coming?


How about, Jesus said He returns after Tribulation, Revelation 16 shows after God's Wrath Christ returns like a Thief?

That's 2 Verses that explains Christ returns afterwards, not any time before. And that means people (like Paul mentions) who are Alive and Remain will be Caught Up.

There's actually several Verses explaining why we remain until after Tribulation and God's Wrath than there are comparing that not one single Verse that states Secret Coming or we leave before.

If the Bible is Literal, it Literally is claiming we Remain until after Tribulation.

Produce proof.
I will wait