Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

[stilllearning]

You got is exactly right brother: The only thing Rondonmon and Charlie think is literal is a decimated Promise land; even saying almost everything else is symbolic; but I say this, "Symbolic of What?" Like drinking Grape Juice and it turns into literal Blood? like eating bread and it turns into the literal flesh of Savior? But according to the flesh, there can be nothing greater than the Law: But did the Animal Sacrifices of Israel turn into the body and blood of Savior when eaten? So what do the scriptures say about these things?

2Co 5:16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh; yet now, we no longer know Him in this way.

1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.​

Savior says eat my flesh and drink my blood: but what does He say when reading on?:

Jhn 6:63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are life.

Even the Body of the Sacrifice Had to be taken outside the camp.

Heb 13:11 For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy place by the high priest as an offering for sin, are burned outside the camp 12Therefore Jesus also, that He sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate.

1Pe 2:24 He Himself bore our sins in His own body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

Rom 6:10 The death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.​

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Yeah I have to agree. I also like the way the Lord will use the literal in a symbolic way to emphasis a attribute and our connection to Christ. While I would never push this or declare this as doctrinal by any means. I just smile and think wow Lord you really do bring it all full circle so that every jot and tittle gives praise and glory to Christ. So with that said what I have found is cool is we know that after Christ was risen he has a new body that is made of flesh and bone. To which we know that we will be like him.

We go back to Genesis and after Adam receives Eve he makes the comment how she is bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh. So from the start we can see God's divine plan. So I just find it cool in even the literal natural how God can speak to what will be a greater spiritual understanding of him and his divine plan and how Christ will end up with the glory and praise.

 

[Pablo2021]

Yeah I have to agree. I also like the way the Lord will use the literal in a symbolic way to emphasis a attribute and our connection to Christ. While I would never push this or declare this as doctrinal by any means. I just smile and think wow Lord you really do bring it all full circle so that every jot and tittle gives praise and glory to Christ. So with that said what I have found is cool is we know that after Christ was risen he has a new body that is made of flesh and bone. To which we know that we will be like him.

We go back to Genesis and after Adam receives Eve he makes the comment how she is bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh. So from the start we can see God's divine plan. So I just find it cool in even the literal natural how God can speak to what will be a greater spiritual understanding of him and his divine plan and how Christ will end up with the glory and praise.

Hey, Still learning, Look at this as well, and see there's more Jesus, Paul and John had to say about our future body:

When asked as to who of the 7 deceased husbands was going to have the woman they married to in the afterlife, Jesus said they were mistaken...

[Luk 20:35-36 NASB95] 35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

John:
[1Jo 3:2 NASB95] 2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

Paul:
[1Co 15:42, 44 NASB20] 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable [body,] it is raised an imperishable [body;] ... 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual [body.]

[Phl 3:19 (c)-21 NASB95] 19 ... who set their minds on earthly things. 20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

 

[Pablo2021]

Actually, it is assumption there is sin or death or resurrections during the thousand years. We have no idea because scripture does not address those things for that time period.

The following passages ascertain the existence of sin and death (for the sole reason that the ones populating the Millennium era will still be in bodies of flesh, just as we are now, only living longer (like in the first chapters of Genesis); therefore, it'll be a time where man will still be in need of believing for salvation.

[Isa 65:20 NIV] 20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

And all the allies of Gog and Magog who by the end of the Millennium will be going against Israel are evidence of the same:

[Rev 20:7-9 NIV] 7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

And regarding the believers from the millennium, we would't think them to just evaporate, but to also receive their respective share in the resurrection of life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That is why I am pointing not only the resurrected ones at His coming, but the resurrection (first resurrection) as a promise being ultimately fulfilled to the last believer from the millennium.

By doing that, you are creating MORE THAN 1 resurrection.

There is only 1. It will occur when Jesus Christ returns as King. Period. At that time, all believers, living or dead, will receive their glorified bodies. I don't believe that there will be ANY humans saved during the Millennium.

Rather, we see a global rebellion at the end of the Millennium.

Rev 20-
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Sure doesn't sound like a description of believers.

Anyone who becomes a believer AFTER the single resurrection of the saved at the Second Advent will NEVER have an opportunity to receive a glorified body.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
That is rather naive.

The Bible says that Satan leads "the whole world astray" and "deceives the whole world".

Neither John nor Paul gave any exceptions.

He is CORRECT. Reread Matt. 24:24-27, it specifically says it is NO POSSIBLE for the elect to be deceived, I will show you at the bottom of the post.

That is just your own private interpretation of what "if that were possible" means.

Since both Paul and John WROTE that the devil deceives and leads the WHOLE WORLD astray, I believe them.

And I gave an example. In over 2,000 years of Christianity, just look across evangelicalism and see how much unity there is. Satan has people in TOTAL disagreement, such as the Calvinists vs the Arminians.

There is a lot of error in evangelicalism today. Some are convinced that water baptism is required for salvation. Some think works are required for salvation in addition to faith. And on and on and on. Some believe that Jesus will come BEFORE the Trib and take belivers to heaven. Others are convinced there is just 1 resurrection of the saved which will occur at the Second Advent.

That proves that there has been a LOT of deception among believers.

Which begs the question are they really THE ELECT!! Maybe you are looking at it all wrong.

Maybe you are. Are you aware that Judas Iscariot was one of the 'chosen'? John 6:70,71. Yet, he was never saved.

But, here Jesus tells the Disciples that the end time ELECT can not be deceived by the Anti-Christ ALL BECAUSE, he has warned them BEFOREHAND !!

No, He didn't say that. You are simply inserting your own understanding of it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

1) under all that they would not be firstfruits
2) they are ONLY 144k. Vividy expressed as a total of 12k x12.
144k is a number. A total.
So no they are not in any way 3 million.

All that other dialogue about armageddon is far fetched.

( needing us to feast on the carcasses of the wicked and calling that the marriage supper.)

Huh?

You need to let go of your "multiple" first fruits ideas. They have NO relevance to a rapture.

The subject of 1 Cor 15 is the resurrection of saved people.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

So, we see that ONLY Jesus Christ is called the firstfruits. And what follows is EVERYONE else who belong to Him. And that is WHEN He returns to earth, which is the Second Advent.

Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

This is why Jesus is called the firstfruits. He is the FIRST human to receive a glorifed body.

ALL other believers will receive theirs "when He comes" at the Second Advent.

Case solved.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Not sure of hyour point here. But receiving a glorified body isn't about going to heaven.

The sentence above was bolded by me; and here's a reply:

[Phl 3:20-21 NASB20] 20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our lowly condition into conformity with His glorious body, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

It should be obvious that Paul was writing to people who would ALL die and GO TO HEAVEN. That explains the "army" that will accompany Him back to earth at the Second Advent. Rev 19.

So, YES, the vast majority of believers are already IN HEAVEN. And they will receive glorified bodies at the single resurrection of the saved, which is at the Second Advent.

So, receiving a glorified body isn't about going to heaven. In fact, NONE of the saints already in heaven have a glorified body.

So my statement stands.

 

[cv5]

200,000,000 man demonic super soldier army.........

Yes.....I agree that is the description of the sixth trumpet army.

 

[Absolutely]

Yes.....I agree that is the description of the sixth trumpet army.

 

[peldom10]

I'm not talking about Trinity. It is a fact that Sun makes life possible on Earth and of course God created Sun. There is no way Sun can he hell now or in future as it is still existing and shining upon Earth even in eternity. There are also scriptures that speak of Sun lasting forever.

Hell/the lake of fire is not the Sun.

(I love this leftist transference approach)......who mentioned Trinity?
I said God and the Son Christ.

 

[cv5]

Arnold Fruchtenbaum - The Rapture
Lets wrap this up folks. The Pre-Trib rapture is....scripturally immutable, incontrovertible and inevitable. It's all here. Answers all detractors.

 

[ewq1938]

And regarding the believers from the millennium, we would't think them to just evaporate, but to also receive their respective share in the resurrection of life.

The living do not need a resurrection.

 

[ewq1938]

Anyone who becomes a believer AFTER the single resurrection of the saved at the Second Advent will NEVER have an opportunity to receive a glorified body.

Of course they could. They could be changed like those who were alive and remained.

 

[ewq1938]

(I love this leftist transference approach)......who mentioned Trinity?
I said God and the Son Christ.

Someone needs to study and learn about the Trinity obviously.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Arnold Fruchtenbaum - The Rapture
Lets wrap this up folks. The Pre-Trib rapture is....scripturally immutable, incontrovertible and inevitable. It's all here. Answers all detractors.

Apparently Arnold Fruchtenbaum never read Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15, 1 Cor `5:23, all which teach that there is a single resurrection for the saved. And we all know what is called "the rapture" occurs WITH the resurrection. 1 Thess 4.

So let's just admit that Arnold isn't a very well read person.

He also never quoted any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven.

So to call a pretrib rapture "immutable, incontrovertible and inevitable" is really just laughable.

He has no evidence at all.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Of course they could. They could be changed like those who were alive and remained.

What verse shows another rapture, or the giving of a glorified body to people? That's what is needed to accept multiple resurrection/raptures.

The Bible teaches just ONE for the saved.

 

[Absolutely]

Apparently Arnold Fruchtenbaum never read Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15, 1 Cor `5:23, all which teach that there is a single resurrection for the saved. And we all know what is called "the rapture" occurs WITH the resurrection. 1 Thess 4.

So let's just admit that Arnold isn't a very well read person.

He also never quoted any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven.

So to call a pretrib rapture "immutable, incontrovertible and inevitable" is really just laughable.

He has no evidence at all.

"""He also never quoted any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven"""

Really?
Show me where Jesus takes them.
I will wait

 

[Absolutely]

What verse shows another rapture, or the giving of a glorified body to people? That's what is needed to accept multiple resurrection/raptures.

The Bible teaches just ONE for the saved.

Jesus returns with the saints after the wrath

Show me the rapture and any resurrection other than the gwtj, AFTER the wrath.(gwtj occurs after the mil)
I will wait.

 

[Absolutely]

Apparently Arnold Fruchtenbaum never read Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15, 1 Cor `5:23, all which teach that there is a single resurrection for the saved. And we all know what is called "the rapture" occurs WITH the resurrection. 1 Thess 4.

So let's just admit that Arnold isn't a very well read person.

He also never quoted any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven.

So to call a pretrib rapture "immutable, incontrovertible and inevitable" is really just laughable.

He has no evidence at all.

"""So to call a pretrib rapture "immutable, incontrovertible and inevitable" is really just laughable."""

Noah
Lot
Acts1
Mat25
Mat 24
Rev19
Rev14


You sit there and accuse others of omission, WHILE omitting those verses your CAMP pretends aren't there

 

[Absolutely]

FreeGrace2 said:
Not sure of hyour point here. But receiving a glorified body isn't about going to heaven.

It should be obvious that Paul was writing to people who would ALL die and GO TO HEAVEN. That explains the "army" that will accompany Him back to earth at the Second Advent. Rev 19.

So, YES, the vast majority of believers are already IN HEAVEN. And they will receive glorified bodies at the single resurrection of the saved, which is at the Second Advent.

So, receiving a glorified body isn't about going to heaven. In fact, NONE of the saints already in heaven have a glorified body.

So my statement stands.

The rapture is world wide

The second coming on horses is local.

No resurrection in conjunction with horses.
No rapture either.
AHEM.....Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Rev 14:14 ( a gathering which os niether the main rapture or the second coming)
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Will await your rabbit trail that neither acknowledges or reconciles the impossibility of your camps position.

Reframing noah is your main key to the multitude of red flags in your camp.
Psssst...you need noah delivered AFTER the flood.
Lot removed AFTER sodom destroyed.