The relationship between the Remission of Sins, the Blood of Jesus, and receiving the Holy Ghost

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Yes, God's plans for us uses that we have time. That does not mean that for God, time is eternal time.

I don't follow you. I'm sorry. What do you think about the below verse?

1 Peter 3:19-20 NIV - "After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits-- 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water . . ."

Are you saying that God wasn't waiting patiently . . . that things "just are?"

God has a pre-written Plan that He is executing right now. We are in the middle of it. There are stages; we are in one of those stages. This means that the final stage has not yet been completed, thus, the Lord waits. I used to believe that God saw all events, as though they had already happened. But that's not what the Scroll of the Lord is all about. This Scroll has all things outlined . . . nothing takes place that is not pre-written . . . right down to the lives of owls and falcons. How are the Plans set into motion? See the below: (I love this)

Isaiah 34:15-17 NIV - "The owl will nest there and lay eggs, she will hatch them, and care for her young under the shadow of her wings; there also the falcons will gather, each with its mate. 16 Look in the scroll of the LORD and read: None of these will be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is his mouth that has given the order, and his Spirit will gather them together. 17 He allots their portions; his hand distributes them by measure. They will possess it forever and dwell there from generation to generation."

This Keystone passage shows that the Plan is in process, thus the Lord waits. He is implementing each event as though computer code makes a computer do what it does. There are no choices; there are no options. Of all the animals that interacted with the owls and falcons . . . could some of them have captured and eaten them? No, for the mouth of God gave His Almighty orders and the Spirit carried them through . . . one day at a time.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Because the first case of the outpouring of the Holy Ghost happened at a time separate from (not simultaneous with) the time when the first believers believed... It is fair to suppose that the Holy Ghost can/would/could/will continue to be poured out at times separate from (not simultaneous with) the moment of belief. And do we see that happening in the scriptures? Yes. Consider the case of those in Samaria in Acts 8:12-17 :

[12] But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. [13] Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. [14] Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: [15] Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: [16] (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) [17] Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.​

It is written that they believed (and even were baptized) in verse 12.., BUT as of verse 16 it is clearly stated that they had NOT yet received the Holy Ghost. Please note that there was time enough for a trip to and from Jerusalem between the time they believed (verse 12) and the time that they eventually received the Holy Ghost (verse 17). That is NOT simultaneously receiving the Holy Ghost at moment of belief. It IS a second example of proof that the Holy Ghost does NOT always come at time of belief.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Blain]

My appreciation to all who have read and commented so far. And my apologies for not replying yet, if anyone was wanting me to reply directly to something they said. I'm going to try to post specifically on the topic of the OP for now, lest I get distracted. Feel free to continue the friendly discussions as seems appropriate.

Also, if a direct reply or clarification is desired, feel free to include a quote and/or an @KelbyofGod WITH a specific question and I'll try to avoid delay in replying.

Also, @Blain I like the overall concept of Post #42 except that there doesn't have to be (actually isn't) a dichotomy (contradiction/disagreement) between teaching and learning. When I first looked up "Apt to teach" I thought it meant "inclined towards teaching" but wherever I looked it up the word "apt" was defined as "taught"...which meant to me that it has to be a simultaneous expectation to learn if there is any hope of teaching. But that's not the same as saying a person has to capitulate or compromise in the face of wrong thinking.

I classify my beliefs and doctrines (basically) into two categories:

1. Things I think, believe, or have been taught (especially in church). <--that's the bigger list (Everyone has this category)
2. Things I have taken to prayer UNTIL God reveals the clear (and often simple) truth of the matter EVEN IF it flies in the face of Category 1 <-- This is the smaller list, but is much more trustworthy. (Not everyone has this category, and most that do have few items within it)

Obviously the 2nd category needs additional explanation, which I will summarize as a list of essentials before an item can be included in it. Basically the essentials are these:

1. Knowing how to pray in a way that actually produces results (causes an effect, makes things happen, allows God to provide the answers... EFFECTUAL prayer... as opposed to powerless prayer where the person doesn't know if they'll get an answer or not... blechh!).
2. Knowing the voice of God (as opposed to any other voice such as Self, Devils, Preachers, Preference)
3. Must be shown in scripture. And for me that usually means I'll require he show it to me in PRACTICAL terms, not just THEORETICAL ( theoretical as meaning "relying on correct interpretation of particular words or doctrines" . Sometimes this essential might be postponed for awhile because of Essential #2. (I can hear his voice and believe, often before I can grasp the depth of what he's saying and/or prove it in scriptures. This requires trust. It's what Jesus was requiring of Peter when he required Peter to submit to having his feet washed BEFORE he would be given the understanding) When God has truly spoken something in the ear, he'll support it as you begin to teach it upon the housetops. Just don't blame him if you "thought it was God" when it wasn't.... just take it back to prayer until he shows you the error.
4. And I PREFER (and often successfully request) that he show it to me so clearly that it cannot be disproven as I then go to teach it to others. (That's what made this OP is so powerful even though it FLIES IN THE FACE of common teaching about salvation).

And now it's time I get back to the topic and show that the separation between belief and receiving-the-Holy-Ghost wasn't just a one-time fluke.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I would have to agree about there not always being a difference in teaching and learning, I can't remember who told it to me but they said the best way to learn is to teach. I also am curious about your belief in effective prayer cause and effect not hoping for results this is an area I am trying to learn because God has been guiding me to having strong faith particularly to see exactly what faith can do. I have damamaged eyes and always believed in healing but never seen it or recieved it yet he spoke to me saying my eyes will be healed and that my eyes were damaged to be a testimony of his power however no matter how much I pray they remain damaged.

This alone would be a fantastic thread as I am sure I am not alone in wondering why prayers like mine seem to be powerless but I apologize for getting off toipic this just caught my attention

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

@Gardenias Do you believe the Scripture below is True or not True?

Ephesians 1:4 NIV - "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love"

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Because the first case of the outpouring of the Holy Ghost happened at a time separate from (not simultaneous with) the time when the first believers believed... It is fair to suppose that the Holy Ghost can/would/could/will continue to be poured out at times separate from (not simultaneous with) the moment of belief. And do we see that happening in the scriptures? Yes. Consider the case of those in Samaria in Acts 8:12-17 :

[12] But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. [13] Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. [14] Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: [15] Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: [16] (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) [17] Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.​

It is written that they believed (and even were baptized) in verse 12.., BUT as of verse 16 it is clearly stated that they had NOT yet received the Holy Ghost. Please note that there was time enough for a trip to and from Jerusalem between the time they believed (verse 12) and the time that they eventually received the Holy Ghost (verse 17). That is NOT simultaneously receiving the Holy Ghost at moment of belief. It IS a second example of proof that the Holy Ghost does NOT always come at time of belief.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
I think we need to realise in the very begining of the church things did not always happen the same. But after the church got established everything happened the same.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

But after the church got established everything happened the same.

Sure seems to be true. For, why would there be a separation of gifts/installments of Righteousness? Then again, the Ways of God are certainly mysterious.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Sure seems to be true. For, why would there be a separation of gifts/installments of Righteousness? Then again, the Ways of God are certainly mysterious.

we have a symbolic representation of what happens to a believe in the OT when they are born again.

1. The sacrifice is made
2. they are washed
3. they are anointed with the holy oil

of course, they were consecrated as priests. just like we are.

The sacrifice was the cross. Through baptism of the spirit. we are united with Christ in his death and burial (romans 6)
the washing also is the baptism of the spirit. as our sins are washed by the blood of Christ
the anointing represents the HS coming into us, or us being anointed by the spirit of God. in which we are also sealed until the day of redemption.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

we have a symbolic representation of what happens to a believe in the OT when they are born again.

1. The sacrifice is made
2. they are washed
3. they are anointed with the holy oil

of course, they were consecrated as priests. just like we are.

The sacrifice was the cross. Through baptism of the spirit. we are united with Christ in his death and burial (romans 6)
the washing also is the baptism of the spirit. as our sins are washed by the blood of Christ
the anointing represents the HS coming into us, or us being anointed by the spirit of God. in which we are also sealed until the day of redemption.

Where does the Spiritual Circumcision, instituted in the lives of Abraham and Sarah come into play?

Romans 4:11-12 NLT - "Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous--even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith. 12 And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised."

This leads us to question the process of Salvation. In my thousands of hours of studying and cataloging Scripture, it has been easy to determine that it was a three-step process in the Old Testament:

1) Receive the Circumcision of Christ
2) Become Enabled to Turn and Repent
3) Receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit

These things are done based upon the choice of God, not the physical actions or a worldly person, hence:

Exodus 33:19 NLT - "The LORD replied, "I will make all my goodness pass before you, and I will call out my name, Yahweh, before you. For I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose."

The Plan of God is simple, but is kept hidden by and behind concepts such as physical circumcision (especially physical circumcision, for nearly all people become squeamish over the idea . . . particularly while sitting in church), oil, baptism, etc. All of these concepts clouded the vision of the Sadducees, Pharisees, teachers of the law, etc. They were so focused on those concepts, they missed the more simple concepts, such as Spiritual Circumcision, being Enabled to Repent, receiving the Holy Spirit as a security deposit . . . teacher and guide.

Our phraseology doesn't accomplish much more than convolute the simple Truth of the Plan of God. And because I keep things simple, it causes some to say that I am "juvenile at best" in my understandings. I disagree. Like Paul, I am trying to unpack that which is hidden so that it becomes easily visible and understandable. However, my paraphrasings seem to be so unique, they, for the most part, are rejected.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Ephesians 4:5 NLT - "There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism . . ."

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

This leads us to question the process of Salvation. In my thousands of hours of studying and cataloging Scripture, it has been easy to determine that it was a three-step process in the Old Testament:

1) Receive the Circumcision of Christ
2) Become Enabled to Turn and Repent
3) Receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit

These things are done based upon the choice of God, not the physical actions or a worldly person, hence:

.

the circumcision of Christ is also called the baptism performed by the spirit

col 2:
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the [i]handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

that does not happen until after one has faith (the putting away of the body of sin, and being raised in him to newness of life.)

repent and believe is the first step, after we are drawn by God

once this happens, through the spiritual circumcision (baptism) of the Hs. Our sins are washed away and we are made clean, and we who were dead are made alive

immediately almost simultaneously. we are also given the spirit in our hearts as a guarantee (anointed by the spirit or he comes in us)

 

[Wansvic]

we have a symbolic representation of what happens to a believe in the OT when they are born again.

1. The sacrifice is made
2. they are washed
3. they are anointed with the holy oil

of course, they were consecrated as priests. just like we are.

The sacrifice was the cross. Through baptism of the spirit. we are united with Christ in his death and burial (romans 6)
the washing also is the baptism of the spirit. as our sins are washed by the blood of Christ
the anointing represents the HS coming into us, or us being anointed by the spirit of God. in which we are also sealed until the day of redemption.

According to Jesus *repentance and remission of sin will be preached in His name beginning in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47) This prophecy was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost:

Peter tells the listeners about Jesus' sacrifice, and they believe Peter's message. The believers are told to *repent (turn to God) and have their sins remitted (washed away) in baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water) The believers are also told they will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (the anointing) It is an error to accept that both the washing and anointing take place simultaneously. Why? Because scriptures confirm that the two experiences take place separately. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) Believers make the choice to obey God's command and submit to water baptism in the name of the Lord. While it is God who makes the choice when to give believers the Holy Ghost.

Everyone must make their own choice whether to believe the entire gospel message, or just certain parts of it. Jude 3 makes the point that there is a common salvation. And the way to find it is by earnestly seeking out what was at first delivered to the apostles.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

the circumcision of Christ is also called the baptism performed by the spirit

col 2:
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the [i]handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

that does not happen until after one has faith (the putting away of the body of sin, and being raised in him to newness of life.)

repent and believe is the first step, after we are drawn by God

once this happens, through the spiritual circumcision (baptism) of the Hs. Our sins are washed away and we are made clean, and we who were dead are made alive

immediately almost simultaneously. we are also given the spirit in our hearts as a guarantee (anointed by the spirit or he comes in us)

I hear what you're saying. Hey, let me run this past you . . . the Baptism of John. Check out these verses (I hope I can present this in a way easy to understand . . . it isn't easy even for me).

Acts 19:2-6 NLT - 2 "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them. "No," they replied, "we haven't even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." 3 "Then what baptism did you experience?" he asked. And they replied, "The baptism of John." 4 Paul said, "John's baptism called for repentance from sin. But John himself told the people to believe in the one who would come later, meaning Jesus." 5 As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied."

Compare this with:

Luke 7:28-30 CSB - "I tell you, among those born of women no one is greater than John, but the least in the kingdom of God is greater than he." 29 (And when all the people, including the tax collectors, heard this, they acknowledged God's way of righteousness, because they had been baptized with John's baptism. 30 But since the Pharisees and experts in the law had not been baptized by him, they rejected the plan of God for themselves.)"

My notes:

The Luke passage absolutely indicates, and quite clearly, that the Baptism of John the Baptist represented a Spiritual change of some kind, and that would likely be the lifting of the Sinful Nature, so that Spiritual Blindness would be lifted so that they could understand, believe, and [see].

What is significant about John's Baptism? Perhaps the Baptism of John is a Holy Baptism that lifts the Sin Nature. Wouldn't this explain why no one is greater than John? Wouldn't this explain what it means to "prepare the way?" Preparing the way? How? By lifting the Sin Nature first? It was because of the Baptism of John that all who received it were enabled to believe. And, it wasn't until AFTER they believed they received the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 11:10 NLT - "John is the man to whom the Scriptures refer when they say, 'Look, I am sending my messenger ahead of you, and he will prepare your way before you."

I submit that the Baptism of John actually lifted the Curse of the Lord. And yes, this would mean that Jesus had authored this right through John's Baptism. We know, for sure, that there was a difference in John's Baptism and the simple water Baptism of others, thus, he Prepared the Way. The way to what? The ability to possess True belief.

If anything, these passages show that Circumcision of Heart and Repentance certainly came before the reception of the Holy Spirit. Those baptized by John believed, but they had not received the Holy Spirit (Acts 19, long after Luke 7). So, the road-work was completed . . . all who had received John's Baptism were Enabled, meaning, their Hearts were Circumcised of the Curse of the Lord. There was an entire body, or group of people that had been prepared to establish the New Church on and after the Day of Pentecost. Thousands were ready and Enabled (to receive the Holy Spirit)! But those who did NOT receive John's Baptism . . . they rejected the Plan of God. No doubt, there was something about John's Baptism that was remarkable not only in evidence but by the Words of Christ . . . "there is no one greater than John."

So unbelievable . . . I love this Bible!

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I hear what you're saying. Hey, let me run this past you . . . the Baptism of John. Check out these verses (I hope I can present this in a way easy to understand . . . it isn't easy even for me).

Acts 19:2-6 NLT - 2 "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them. "No," they replied, "we haven't even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." 3 "Then what baptism did you experience?" he asked. And they replied, "The baptism of John." 4 Paul said, "John's baptism called for repentance from sin. But John himself told the people to believe in the one who would come later, meaning Jesus." 5 As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied."

Compare this with:

Luke 7:28-30 CSB - "I tell you, among those born of women no one is greater than John, but the least in the kingdom of God is greater than he." 29 (And when all the people, including the tax collectors, heard this, they acknowledged God's way of righteousness, because they had been baptized with John's baptism. 30 But since the Pharisees and experts in the law had not been baptized by him, they rejected the plan of God for themselves.)"

My notes:

The Luke passage absolutely indicates, and quite clearly, that the Baptism of John the Baptist represented a Spiritual change of some kind, and that would likely be the lifting of the Sinful Nature, so that Spiritual Blindness would be lifted so that they could understand, believe, and [see].

What is significant about John's Baptism? Perhaps the Baptism of John is a Holy Baptism that lifts the Sin Nature. Wouldn't this explain why no one is greater than John? Wouldn't this explain what it means to "prepare the way?" Preparing the way? How? By lifting the Sin Nature first? It was because of the Baptism of John that all who received it were enabled to believe. And, it wasn't until AFTER they believed they received the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 11:10 NLT - "John is the man to whom the Scriptures refer when they say, 'Look, I am sending my messenger ahead of you, and he will prepare your way before you."

I submit that the Baptism of John actually lifted the Curse of the Lord. And yes, this would mean that Jesus had authored this right through John's Baptism. We know, for sure, that there was a difference in John's Baptism and the simple water Baptism of others, thus, he Prepared the Way. The way to what? The ability to possess True belief.

If anything, these passages show that Circumcision of Heart and Repentance certainly came before the reception of the Holy Spirit. Those baptized by John believed, but they had not received the Holy Spirit (Acts 19, long after Luke 7). So, the road-work was completed . . . all who had received John's Baptism were Enabled, meaning, their Hearts were Circumcised of the Curse of the Lord. There was an entire body, or group of people that had been prepared to establish the New Church on and after the Day of Pentecost. Thousands were ready and Enabled (to receive the Holy Spirit)! But those who did NOT receive John's Baptism . . . they rejected the Plan of God. No doubt, there was something about John's Baptism that was remarkable not only in evidence but by the Words of Christ . . . "there is no one greater than John."

So unbelievable . . . I love this Bible!

the baptism of john was to get people to stop looking at the law and get them to start looking to the one who would come. He came to prepair the hearts of the people.

as for lifting the curse of the lord? i have never heard of this before.. What lifted my curse? Since I did not receive the baptism of John?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Actually, I believe the moment one in faith calls out to Jesus as the tax collector. He is saved. And given the Holy Spirit as a pledge

Paul makes it clear. After hearing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and having believed you were sealed with the HS of promise.

While for many, the drawing of God can take years. Once repentance has occures. And faith has been applied and we call out. Salvation is complete.

So if anything, the process is

1. Hear
2. Repent
3 Believe
4. Call out.

is there any relationship to repentance and baptism for repentance and remission of sins ?

I would say hear , believe , act based on the belief for instance the saving of souls comes through hearing the gospel, believing and then acting upon the knowledge we have heard and believed like this

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33, 36-39, 41, 46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬


faith is to hear , believe and act in that belief or in other words “faith without works is dead “ or “incomplete”

see how they heard Peter preaching the gospeL and it hit them in the heart because they believed what he was saying about Jesus ? Then how they asked what do we do ? Then Peter says repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sins ?

then notice they actually did believe because they acted and we’re saved into the body ? Hear , believe , act

“Noah the word is going to flood build an ark like I tell you and you’ll be saved “ Noah believed so Noah acted in that belief

“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All Noah did was believe what God was telling him his reaction was from belief of course if he believed there was a flood coming and he was instructed to build the work and be saved if he believed it the action is a result

and so Christians have been warned of God also and been instructed on how to be saved also like Noah by living faith

There’s fire coming but salvation is hear

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if God told us believe and get baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sins and we believe that the rest is part of it receiving the Holy Ghost is to receive the gospel and believe it’s a goft from that process but no where in scripture are we ever told receiving the Holy Ghost remits our sins

but we are taught a clear doctrine that believing the gospel and getting baptized for repentance and remission of sins is a promise from God to remit our sins according only to his word and not the worlds doctrines explaining different ways and paths

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

is there any relationship to repentance and baptism for repentance and remission of sins ?

I would say hear , believe , act based on the belief for instance the saving of souls comes through hearing the gospel, believing and then acting upon the knowledge we have heard and believed like this

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33, 36-39, 41, 46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬


faith is to hear , believe and act in that belief or in other words “faith without works is dead “ or “incomplete”

see how they heard Peter preaching the gospeL and it hit them in the heart because they believed what he was saying about Jesus ? Then how they asked what do we do ? Then Peter says repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sins ?

then notice they actually did believe because they acted and we’re saved into the body ? Hear , believe , act

“Noah the word is going to flood build an ark like I tell you and you’ll be saved “ Noah believed so Noah acted in that belief

“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All Noah did was believe what God was telling him his reaction was from belief of course if he believed there was a flood coming and he was instructed to build the work and be saved if he believed it the action is a result

and so Christians have been warned of God also and been instructed on how to be saved also like Noah by living faith

There’s fire coming but salvation is hear

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if God told us believe and get baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sins and we believe that the rest is part of it receiving the Holy Ghost is to receive the gospel and believe it’s a goft from that process but no where in scripture are we ever told receiving the Holy Ghost remits our sins

but we are taught a clear doctrine that believing the gospel and getting baptized for repentance and remission of sins is a promise from God to remit our sins according only to his word and not the worlds doctrines explaining different ways and paths

if it is grace it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

God does not need to see works. He knows if our faith is sincere or not. He does not ask for our works. because if we add works to grace. they cancel each other out.

Grace is freely given, undeserved

Works are to earn a reward or a prize.

not by works of righteousness which we have done but by his mercy he saved us.

Are you depending on Christ to save you. Or your work? you can't depend on both

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

the baptism of john was to get people to stop looking at the law and get them to start looking to the one who would come. He came to prepair the hearts of the people.

as for lifting the curse of the lord? i have never heard of this before.. What lifted my curse? Since I did not receive the baptism of John?

Sorry, I don't have the time to paraphrase myself. Studying for the Real Estate Brokers exam. But, the answers are in the first post.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

if it is grace it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

God does not need to see works. He knows if our faith is sincere or not. He does not ask for our works. because if we add works to grace. they cancel each other out.

Grace is freely given, undeserved

Works are to earn a reward or a prize.

not by works of righteousness which we have done but by his mercy he saved us.

Are you depending on Christ to save you. Or your work? you can't depend on both

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46‬ ‭KJV‬‬


lol yeah “grace means we don’t have to do anything God said will save us “

yay !!!! And “faith means don’t do anything and doing anything he said is a work of the law just say grace instead woohoo ! “

not my kind of doctrine sorry I’m a believer in Jesus so I do
My best to hear his word and have faith

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Simplicity for you faith doesn’t ignore what God said it can’t because that’s The source of faith

I think it’s important to hear what Jesus the savior said of salvation and not omit and deny and argue against it because Joseph prince or Paul Ellis or modern grave teachers can’t compete with the truth of this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24

Ill keep My faith in the savior and Lords word

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

This leads to the question . . . .what is a "Work"? I would submit that Love is a Work.

1 John 3:14 NLT - "If we love our Christian brothers and sisters, it proves that we have passed from death to life. But a person who has no love is still dead."

What is concerning is all of the aggression that is shared between "believers" in these kinds of forums. This form of aggression is reflective of a lack of genuine Love. And, that equates to a lack of Salvation having been granted.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This leads to the question . . . .what is a "Work"? I would submit that Love is a Work.

1 John 3:14 NLT - "If we love our Christian brothers and sisters, it proves that we have passed from death to life. But a person who has no love is still dead."

What is concerning is all of the aggression that is shared between "believers" in these kinds of forums. This form of aggression is reflective of a lack of genuine Love. And, that equates to a lack of Salvation having been granted.

if it’s coming from faith it’s completing faith it’s only the works of the law of Moses that no longer applies good deeds and doing good rather than evil hasn’t changed at all

a good work is anything good we do in Christs name me the idea Thy at good works aren’t for Christians because of “ grace “ is preposterous when Gods grace teaches us this

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

grace isn’t supposed to turn us from good works its meant to teach us to repent and live upright godly lives while we wait for Christ

and it teaches us to be zealous d love good works to be constantly looking for what good we can do

“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the works of the law are what Moses said like all the ordinances festivals new moons ceremonial washings all of the things they had to do to be considered clean before God that’s what we don’t have to do we don’t sacrifice animals we don’t have a temple where preists serve on earth so all those things became irrelevant doing good and doing evil has never and will be never change

good works is to do what is good and right and fair me genrous and helpful and unselfish it’s to love the life Jesus set before us on the gospel

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

grace isn’t supposed to turn us from good works its meant to teach us to repent and live upright godly lives while we wait for Christ

and it teaches us to be zealous d love good works to be constantly looking for what good we can do

Hey my friend,

Do you think that maybe Grace isn't something that teaches, but that it is actually an Act of God?

Exodus 33:19 NKJV - "Then He said, "I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

I would propose that Grace is the Circumcision of Christ, which would explain what Paul said about "Sufficient Grace."

Deuteronomy 30:6 NKJV - "And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live."

And this Circumcision from God comes through Christ our God:

Colossians 2:11 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature."

Again, this explains the words of Paul below:

2 Corinthians 12:9 KJV - "And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."

Anyone under a Curse is "weak," thus to receive Grace is the Act of God that causes us to become alive. Hence, to receive the Circumcision of Christ is the greatest gift we could ever hope to receive. This Grace is greater than any physical healing, or perhaps even emotional healing (some say Paul had a physical problem, others say he suffered from pride). Either way, Circumcision of the Heart is the foundation of the Promises discussed with Abraham, our Father of Faith.

Love this Bible of ours!