Does the Bible describe our life as being a computer simulation.

[ZNP]

Ever since 2003 there have been scientific conjecture that the universe is like a computer simulation. They provide many pieces of evidence, I will briefly describe three since this thread is discussing the Biblical basis of the theory and therefore I have to give a little review of the theory.

1. What is an electron? I don't think anyone can explain this except for those who have never studied it. On the one hand you can operate very will with the rule that an electron is a particle. Based on that rule Chemists have been very happy working with the various elements and manufacturing them or breaking them down. The rules surrounding the periodic table have been tested a million times over and work beautifully.

However, the double slit experiment comes up with a very weird result indicating that electrons are a wave and not a particle. However, we get two very different results when we do this experiment. If you are observing the path of the electron it appears to be a wave. If you ignore that and simply observe where the electron ends up it appears to be a particle.

However, there is one theory on how to reconcile these two. If we are in a computer simulation that has all the rules of the periodic table then everything works perfectly in the macro scale. This includes setting up an experiment to see where the electrons end up. Simple rule, but the simulation is not set up to actually observe the electron and that is where it breaks down because the code is actually like a wave.

2. Scientists have demonstrated that they can encode a computer virus into DNA so that when you read the DNA on your computer they can hack your computer.

3. While trying to smash particles into smaller and smaller pieces they discovered that if you make the particle small enough it loses the element of time and space. In a computer simulation you will have a code for say a pixel of red but in that code you have to tell it when and where to appear. If you cut the code down small enough you will simply have red without any code for when or where.

4. Now let's consider this from other more esoteric phenomena. We have resuscitated many people from the dead and so many come back with stories of going to heaven that it is irresponsible to ignore them. This includes very young children and people of different faiths who say they saw Jesus. When you listen to some of these it seems the person was dead for a week and yet according to the doctors they were dead for 5 minutes. Now suppose life is a computer simulation, when you die you take those 4d goggles off. You could be there for a week but when they send you back they could send you back 5 minutes later. This is very interesting to me because there is a verse that says "and time will be no more". The easiest way to understand this verse is to consider this life to be a computer simulation.

5. There is another verse that says whatever you have whispered in secret will be shouted from the rooftop. If we are in a computer simulation that would be simple to do.

6. Now consider this from the perspective of God's judgement. Is God righteous when all these people are killed? I was asked this by someone who plays video games and I asked him if it was a sin to kill people in a video game. He said no. So then it is hypocritical to accuse God of sin for something you justify yourself for.

7. There has been some amazing Bible study on the Bible being a very high level code. Even the ancient scribes who would copy out the Hebrew said the same thing saying that changing one single character could change the whole world. This is what John says in his gospel when he says "all things came into being through the word and apart from the word nothing that has come into being has come into being.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Well . . . amazing OP question. The below verse certainly leads me to believe that all things are planned. I mean . . . all things!

Isaiah 34:14-17 NIV - "Desert creatures will meet with hyenas, and wild goats will bleat to each other; there the night creatures will also lie down and find for themselves places of rest. 15 The owl will nest there and lay eggs, she will hatch them, and care for her young under the shadow of her wings; there also the falcons will gather, each with its mate. 16 Look in the scroll of the LORD and read: None of these will be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is his mouth that has given the order, and his Spirit will gather them together. 17 He allots their portions; his hand distributes them by measure. They will possess it forever and dwell there from generation to generation."

If owls and falcons WILL be at a specific place and specific time . . . then their entire lives are under the control of God. This would include all events and circumstances that surround the owls and falcons. But, they are just mere animals. How much more critical and important are we . . . the Children of God?

And it seems to me that this is why we are told not to worry, for all things are under the control and determination of the Lord. So, if this is the case, then why fight life? Why worry about anything at all? Therefore, let us "go with the flow." Let us be easy with each other. Let of Love one another whole-heartedly, forgiving in an unending fashion.

After experiencing the Raw, Almighty Power of God in the Arizona desert, I have come to see, CLEARLY, that I have not been in control of my life. The way that I have been treated has been completely unwarranted, hence, I am not a True "stranger in a foreign land." I am a True "alien" for my family and former friends have all abandoned me, though I have done nothing wrong. In fact, I am a very good, loving, and kind person that always turned sour when I was being falsely accused and continuously being blamed for things that I did not do, though everyone around me seemed to "get off" Scott free without any repercussion to their obvious sin and chaotic lifestyle.

I look at my painful, miserable life as a fulfillment of the Word of God, in that "we" will be hated by the world because we do not belong to this world. My Father is God in heaven, which is why my earthly father, whom I adored and nearly worshipped, has hated me beyond imagination. It has been brother against brother, mother against son. All of my Christian family hates me, and we're talking about ministers, missionaries, elders, preachers wives, elders wives . . . and on and on. It is unbelievable how the Bible describes my pain and sufferings. And it is through the fact that I seem to represent a True Child of God (because of my pain and struggles) that I rejoice over them! I am thankful that I meet the description of a True Child of God . . . made evident by pain and suffering.

So yes, I believe that we are under the complete Power and control of the Almighty God who created all that is.

 

[ZNP]

Isaiah 34:14-17 NIV - "Desert creatures will meet with hyenas, and wild goats will bleat to each other; there the night creatures will also lie down and find for themselves places of rest. 15 The owl will nest there and lay eggs, she will hatch them, and care for her young under the shadow of her wings; there also the falcons will gather, each with its mate. 16 Look in the scroll of the LORD and read: None of these will be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is his mouth that has given the order, and his Spirit will gather them together. 17 He allots their portions; his hand distributes them by measure. They will possess it forever and dwell there from generation to generation.".

I will try to collect relevant verse references and highlight them, so thanks for this.

Isaiah 34:14-17

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I will try to collect relevant verse references and highlight them, so thanks for this.

Isaiah 34:14-17

I am seriously looking forward to what you come up with. I have an enormous collection of verses that outline God's Responsibility in this world, His Power/Control in terms of why this world is the way it is, His Mysterious Plan, and Mind Control, etc.

In my estimation, as I read the entire Bible, the entirety of the body of written material outlines the total control over all of creation to prove His incredible Power. Power is the single most important thing that we are to recognize as the main theme of the Bible, for if we recognize this fact, the remainder of His Truth (and Plan) begins to unfold. This book that we have . . . it is shocking!

 

[p_rehbein]

Ever since 2003 there have been scientific conjecture that the universe is like a computer simulation. They provide many pieces of evidence, I will briefly describe three since this thread is discussing the Biblical basis of the theory and therefore I have to give a little review of the theory.

By any chance, are you a Master Herbalist? just wondering.......

 

[tourist]

I read your entire OP and found it to be well-written and the content fascinating.

 

[ZNP]

By any chance, are you a Master Herbalist? just wondering.......

no, but I did teach HS Chemistry

 

[Nehemiah6]

By any chance, are you a Master Herbalist?

Either that or a Master Illusionist.

Human beings are not "simulations". At the same time the entire universe shows that God is the Ultimate Mathematician, in that everything in the universe is mathematically precise. And the laws of electronics were put into effect by God Himself. Or more precisely Christ Himself.

 

[ZNP]

Either that or a Master Illusionist.

Human beings are not "simulations". At the same time the entire universe shows that God is the Ultimate Mathematician, in that everything in the universe is mathematically precise. And the laws of electronics were put into effect by God Himself. Or more precisely Christ Himself.

Excellent, you can save us all a lot of time, just point us to the Bible verses that rule this out.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

We are in a situation that is even greater than a simulation, for we are living, breathing organisms that are controlled by the Power and pre-written Plan of God, all of which is pre-recorded upon a Heavenly Scroll . . . much like how a computer MUST follow written code.

Those of us who wake up to this reality are in the "driver's seat" so to speak. Those of us who recognize these happenings are either waking up or are already awake. Come on folks . . . we must wake up to the Omniscient Power and Control of our Almighty God!

 

[ewq1938]

https://www.gotquestions.org/simulation-theory.html

Occasionally, a philosopher or scientist will suggest our reality is not “real.” While this is a common theme in science fiction and fantasy, some propose it might be true in the actual world. Their claim—or at least, their question—suggests that all of reality is actually a simulation, that what we think of as “real” is something artificial and only part of a larger existence. The suggestion comes in many different forms, united through basic components, loosely described as simulation theory. All such claims are heavily flavored by solipsism, which suggests our observations are untrustworthy. Any simulation hypothesis or simulation theory has to contend with the weaknesses inherent in solipsism itself.

As it turns out, Scripture indicates that our earthly lives are only part of a larger whole, and there is a “real reality” above and beyond what we experience on a day-to-day basis. The Bible says our “reality” is created and designed. And yet, most who support “simulation theory” reject the idea of God, an afterlife, or other spiritual concepts. This is not dissimilar to how many atheists attempt to use evidence for the Big Bang Theory against biblical views, despite the fact that concepts like a “beginning” were once seen as antithetical to atheism itself.

Ultimately, theories suggesting that reality is simulated are either irrelevant or support the basic claims of theism. These theories typically come from one of two sources: philosophical reasoning or scientific observations.

Philosophically, arguments about reality being a simulation hinge on possible advances in technology. A common approach suggests that, if technology could ever be capable of simulating reality, then we are most probably living in a simulation right now; if we are not, such technology is most likely impossible. This assumes that a civilization capable of making simulations probably will make them, and the number of such simulations will probably become extremely large. This, in turn, would create a scenario where simulated minds far outnumber “real” minds, meaning any given mind—including our own—is statistically more likely to be part of a simulation than “actual.”

Scientifically, observations of the universe suggest a certain “resolution” to space and time. Below that, it seems, there is no possible division. Quantum physics gets its name from the idea that components of the universe are not infinitely divisible—they are measured in fundamental, discrete quanta, which are the smallest possible “bits” of those things. Quanta somewhat correspond to the pixels on a computer screen or the binary language used in most programs. This approach to simulation theory raises the question of whether our perceived reality is simulated, analogous to the way the pixels on a TV screen combine to “simulate” an actual scene.

By definition, those who see evidence of the “simulation” of reality are literally arguing for a designer. This makes the simulation hypothesis, in a sense, an argument for Intelligent Design, because it posits that the very nature of the universe suggests deliberate, intentional arrangement. Likewise, the simulation hypothesis would strongly support the possibility of miracles, since a simulation could be adjusted by whoever is in control of it.

The Bible directly tells us our universe was created (Genesis 1:1). It indicates that God thinks and functions in a way “above” our own (Isaiah 55:9). Scripture makes it clear that God is not subject to the laws that govern the “natural” universe (Exodus 4:21). Mankind, according to the Bible, has a destiny that extends beyond the reality we currently know (Hebrews 9:27), and there is a “spiritual realm” somehow distinct from the realm we ordinarily perceive (1 Corinthians 2:14). Scripture also indicates that we are more than physical (2 Corinthians 5:8) and that there is something “more real” than what we see or experience on earth (Hebrews 9:11; 9:24).

Ultimately, the claim that all of reality is a simulation is something that cannot be proved, at least not in philosophical or scientific terms. This is mostly due to the self-defeating nature of solipsism: the more sure we are that our experiences are false, the less we can trust those experiences—including the experiences that lead us to believe in solipsism!

Further, if we can interact with something “outside” our simulation, then both the “outside” and the simulation are part of the same “reality.” If we can’t interact with this “outside,” then it’s no different from something imaginary, so we have no reason to think it’s real, let alone claim it to be real. Interestingly, various forms of the simulation hypothesis also support the idea that human knowledge might, in fact, be limited. The fact that something is beyond our normal set of rules does not make it unreal. Rather, such questions become matters of spirituality. Literally, they are super-natural concepts: they describe something beyond the “natural” universe we experience.

Biblically, the question of reality being a simulation comes down to terminology. Debating over whether or not reality is “simulated” or “created” is somewhat like debating whether a piece of clay was “formed” or “shaped.” Or whether or not Pluto is a “planet.” Ultimately, both terms, simulated and created, imply that the universe we experience was purposefully arranged by something beyond our own reality. Christianity teaches that there is a higher form of existence than our universe and that the world we live in was purposefully arranged by God. By definition, any meaningful evidence of “simulation” in reality would prove an intelligent designer (Psalm 19:1; Romans 1:18–20).

 

[ZNP]

The Bible directly tells us our universe was created (Genesis 1:1). It indicates that God thinks and functions in a way “above” our own (Isaiah 55:9). Scripture makes it clear that God is not subject to the laws that govern the “natural” universe (Exodus 4:21). Mankind, according to the Bible, has a destiny that extends beyond the reality we currently know (Hebrews 9:27), and there is a “spiritual realm” somehow distinct from the realm we ordinarily perceive (1 Corinthians 2:14). Scripture also indicates that we are more than physical (2 Corinthians 5:8) and that there is something “more real” than what we see or experience on earth (Hebrews 9:11; 9:24)..

Thank you, I would argue that all of these verses are consistent with a simulation.

 

[soberxp]

My previous work was 3D modeling On the computer by software，I was surprised to find that when the 3D human model I made is closer to reality, the model will appear more natural of God,It's like this is what it should be,no other way.

If I can blow my breath in computer software, It can alive,The premise is that if I can do the activities of every cell, including the thinking of the human brain.ofc, I know that I can't do it,cuz lack of knowledge.

I can be sure intuitively, The world we live in is like a "simulation".

But our thoughts are not simulated,Our thoughts are different.

 

[ZNP]

All Biblical prophecies would be easy to understand if we view human life as a computer simulation. Someone who knows the entire simulation could describe any level. They may not know what you will do since you have free will, but they do know the trials and tribulations that you will encounter.

God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent. That is easy to understand if you view the creation as a computer simulation that He has written.

The point is that this is an analogy that might help us visualize the universe that we are in. It explains how a soul that doesn't die is housed in a mortal body.

 

[Lanolin]

intersting but its like how some christians who are sports fanatics try to explain the gospel and life in general is like a game, or how Shakespeare who was a playwright insisted that all the world is a stage, that men are merely players

Being a librarian I suppose I could say life is like a book/story and God is the author of it.
Other analaogies include a God being a potter and we are the clay
And I suppose those who are designers or engineers say God is like an intelligent designer. (Of course designers like to think of themselves as intelligent!)

What about parents. You can say God is like a Father and we are His children. Easy to grasp no?

 

[Jocund]

Ever since 2003 there have been scientific conjecture that the universe is like a computer simulation. They provide many pieces of evidence, I will briefly describe three since this thread is discussing the Biblical basis of the theory and therefore I have to give a little review of the theory.

1. What is an electron? I don't think anyone can explain this except for those who have never studied it. On the one hand you can operate very will with the rule that an electron is a particle. Based on that rule Chemists have been very happy working with the various elements and manufacturing them or breaking them down. The rules surrounding the periodic table have been tested a million times over and work beautifully.

However, the double slit experiment comes up with a very weird result indicating that electrons are a wave and not a particle. However, we get two very different results when we do this experiment. If you are observing the path of the electron it appears to be a wave. If you ignore that and simply observe where the electron ends up it appears to be a particle.

However, there is one theory on how to reconcile these two. If we are in a computer simulation that has all the rules of the periodic table then everything works perfectly in the macro scale. This includes setting up an experiment to see where the electrons end up. Simple rule, but the simulation is not set up to actually observe the electron and that is where it breaks down because the code is actually like a wave.

2. Scientists have demonstrated that they can encode a computer virus into DNA so that when you read the DNA on your computer they can hack your computer.

3. While trying to smash particles into smaller and smaller pieces they discovered that if you make the particle small enough it loses the element of time and space. In a computer simulation you will have a code for say a pixel of red but in that code you have to tell it when and where to appear. If you cut the code down small enough you will simply have red without any code for when or where.

4. Now let's consider this from other more esoteric phenomena. We have resuscitated many people from the dead and so many come back with stories of going to heaven that it is irresponsible to ignore them. This includes very young children and people of different faiths who say they saw Jesus. When you listen to some of these it seems the person was dead for a week and yet according to the doctors they were dead for 5 minutes. Now suppose life is a computer simulation, when you die you take those 4d goggles off. You could be there for a week but when they send you back they could send you back 5 minutes later. This is very interesting to me because there is a verse that says "and time will be no more". The easiest way to understand this verse is to consider this life to be a computer simulation.

5. There is another verse that says whatever you have whispered in secret will be shouted from the rooftop. If we are in a computer simulation that would be simple to do.

6. Now consider this from the perspective of God's judgement. Is God righteous when all these people are killed? I was asked this by someone who plays video games and I asked him if it was a sin to kill people in a video game. He said no. So then it is hypocritical to accuse God of sin for something you justify yourself for.

7. There has been some amazing Bible study on the Bible being a very high level code. Even the ancient scribes who would copy out the Hebrew said the same thing saying that changing one single character could change the whole world. This is what John says in his gospel when he says "all things came into being through the word and apart from the word nothing that has come into being has come into being.

If you're a HS Chem teacher some of my reply is going to be bread and butter to you, but I'll add more detail in hopes that it makes it easier for others to jump in.

1. An attempt to understand the universe strictly through black and white, 2-bit, boolean logic isn't necessary. In the same way that "sqrt(4) = +2, -2" it can also be the case that things exist uncollapsed wave-function forms. Non-binary forms superpositioned between states (e.g. Schrodinger's cat). These type of probabilistic approaches to data are great for risk management and actuarial science, but to the common person might appear nonsensical (even though they aren't).

2. This type of DNA to computer code virus would depend heavily on the way the program is set up to read the data. The same is true of any kind of "encoding a message in DNA". The message can't be read unless there is a convention for how that message is to be written and decoded. The "hackability" of the software using code hidden in DNA depends on abusing the quirks in the software, which makes the DNA-computer-virus situation a one-trick pony that wouldn't necessarily work on other software that could do the same thing. "Sanitise your inputs!"

3. Unless "red" is an emergent property of the when and where (which it arguably is). While it could be the case that there exists a Platonic perfect "red", it may also be the case that it is a perceptual effect of other Platonic forms interacting.

4. "and time will be no more" from Rev 10:6 is a very interesting observation. The passage was written in Greek for a Greek speaking audience and using "Chronos" as the term for "time". In Greek mythology, Chronos was the titan that embodied the concept of time. In the same way that we see "Hades" used in the NT in a capacity to express the underworld, Chronos too can reasonably stand for a packaged concept that means more than meets the eye at first. Very astute observation!

5. "secrets shouted from the rooftops" from Luke 12:3. It would be simple in a computer simulation. It would also be simple for a dreaming mind that dreamt the world into existence. We see quotes like the famous Arthur C. Clarke quote, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." And we also see short stories like Isaac Asimov's "The Last Question" which merges the entire computer simulation concept and God.

6. The broader conversation about the Epicurean dilemma usually comes back to the conclusion that the things we experience as "bad" in life aren't actually bad in the overall picture.

7. A simulation theory within the Bible doesn't necessarily require the concept of computer code (Plato's perfect forms is an example that doesn't require computer code), but it is an interesting perspective to take that approach. I think you explained in a later post that the approach is more or less just a convention. The thought is interesting if we are looking at the concept of manipulating RNG values (not true random) of a simulated world through rituals and other OCD procedures in order to produce specific effects that wouldn't be obvious without understanding the source code. If you don't understand what I mean by that RNG comment, that's alright. If you do understand what I mean by that RNG comment, I'm interested to see what you think about the implications.

 

[ZNP]

7. A simulation theory within the Bible doesn't necessarily require the concept of computer code (Plato's perfect forms is an example that doesn't require computer code), but it is an interesting perspective to take that approach. I think you explained in a later post that the approach is more or less just a convention. The thought is interesting if we are looking at the concept of manipulating RNG values (not true random) of a simulated world through rituals and other OCD procedures in order to produce specific effects that wouldn't be obvious without understanding the source code. If you don't understand what I mean by that RNG comment, that's alright. If you do understand what I mean by that RNG comment, I'm interested to see what you think about the implications.

Well if you could do that it would be like using electricity even though we don't really understand that either. When you use a theory like this in solving real world problems it proves that this is more than a theory.

(As for the comment about the DNA needing to know what weakness in the software is there to hack into, that is true, and although the experiment put a specific vulnerability in that they then hacked it was still a proof of concept).

 

[oyster67]

Does the Bible describe our life as being a computer simulation.


No. Although time on this Earth is very short, there is nothing "simulated" about what Jesus did on the Cross for us. There is nothing "simulated" about the choice we must make. Our eternal destinies hinge upon this decision we must (and shall) all make.

 

[ZNP]

Does the Bible describe our life as being a computer simulation.


No. Although time on this Earth is very short, there is nothing "simulated" about what Jesus did on the Cross for us. There is nothing "simulated" about the choice we must make. Our eternal destinies hinge upon this decision we must (and shall) all make.

That is an excellent point, how does viewing the material world as a simulation impact the significance of the cross of Christ?

Does viewing the material world as a simulation make it so that you are no longer held in fear of death? Pain? Public humiliation?

We had a poster on this forum recently say that he had been "crucified" on some thread.

 

[ZNP]

The first reason that they give for this possibility is that we are already doing it. An online forum, cyber space, these are examples of what they mean by simulation. So simulation is referring to a way we can communicate with God and others. We are told specifically that we cannot see God directly and live so it would make sense to create a simulation where Jesus could walk among us and we could communicate with Him, touch Him, and handle Him.