The relationship between the Remission of Sins, the Blood of Jesus, and receiving the Holy Ghost

[KelbyofGod]

I propose that God does not have a problem with salvation coming one piece at a time. (instead of everything happening all at one moment as man has taught us). That's a bold statement. Can it be proven in the scriptures?

It’s not hard if you remember/consider/realize that God separated the times that each of these three things became available.

1. Remission of sins,
2. Belief in Jesus’ death and resurrection
3. Receiving the Holy Ghost.

I've written a longer explanation but first let's simply consider the relationship between "Receiving the Holy Ghost" and "Belief in Jesus' death and resurrection"

Watch how easy this is to prove:

FIRST...remembering John 7:39... decide when you believe the Holy Ghost (as it is now given) was first poured out. (Perhaps Acts 2:2-4, or John 20:22)

THEN... remembering John 20:8... decide when the first person believed that Jesus had died for their sins and had risen from the dead.

NOW... ask yourself ... "Are those two things occurring at the EXACT same moment? If not, then you already know that salvation occurs in steps/stages/pieces... and it is God who set it up that way.

Yes, there's a lot more to it, and it's VERY important, but that's the shortest way I currently know to start showing you the truth of the situation.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Great job, Kelby.

One thing that "Christians" ought think about is how Abraham, David, Joshua, Caleb, Moses, and all mentioned in the Great Hall of Faith, Hebrews chapter 11, could be considered Holy, Righteous and Pure . . . even though Christ hadn't died yet. How is it possible to be Pure if Christ hadn't lived or died in his physical body so as to be that final Sacrifice for all sin?

Understanding Salvation in the Old Testament explodes wide open Salvation as it is found in the New Testament.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I propose that God does not have a problem with salvation coming one piece at a time. (instead of everything happening all at one moment as man has taught us). That's a bold statement. Can it be proven in the scriptures?

It’s not hard if you remember/consider/realize that God separated the times that each of these three things became available.

1. Remission of sins,
2. Belief in Jesus’ death and resurrection
3. Receiving the Holy Ghost.

I've written a longer explanation but first let's simply consider the relationship between "Receiving the Holy Ghost" and "Belief in Jesus' death and resurrection"

Watch how easy this is to prove:

FIRST...remembering John 7:39... decide when you believe the Holy Ghost (as it is now given) was first poured out. (Perhaps Acts 2:2-4, or John 20:22)

THEN... remembering John 20:8... decide when the first person believed that Jesus had died for their sins and had risen from the dead.

NOW... ask yourself ... "Are those two things occurring at the EXACT same moment? If not, then you already know that salvation occurs in steps/stages/pieces... and it is God who set it up that way.

Yes, there's a lot more to it, and it's VERY important, but that's the shortest way I currently know to start showing you the truth of the situation.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Actually, I believe the moment one in faith calls out to Jesus as the tax collector. He is saved. And given the Holy Spirit as a pledge

Paul makes it clear. After hearing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and having believed you were sealed with the HS of promise.

While for many, the drawing of God can take years. Once repentance has occures. And faith has been applied and we call out. Salvation is complete.

So if anything, the process is

1. Hear
2. Repent
3 Believe
4. Call out.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The process (Work of Christ) is:

1) Circumcision of the heart - the removal of the Curse of the Lord. Until this Curse is removed, a person cannot understand, believe or receive.
2) Grants the ability to Turn and Repent.
3) Sends the Gift of the Holy Spirit (to be further taught)

The above three Works of Christ were all given to the Righteous, Holy, and Pure of the Old Testament

4) Christ's death on the Cross paid the debt for sin - Until we believe in the Power of the Resurrection, no one can be "made right" with God.

Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

Colossians 2:12 NLT - "For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead."

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The process (Work of Christ) is:

1) Circumcision of the heart - the removal of the Curse of the Lord. Until this Curse is removed, a person cannot understand, believe or receive.
2) Grants the ability to Turn and Repent.
3) Sends the Gift of the Holy Spirit (to be further taught)

The above three Works of Christ were all given to the Righteous, Holy, and Pure of the Old Testament

4) Christ's death on the Cross paid the debt for sin - Until we believe in the Power of the Resurrection, no one can be "made right" with God.

Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

Colossians 2:12 NLT - "For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead."

Ouch, The curse can not be removed until justification occures.

A person is not born again while still under the penalty of sin

God demands a person choses to trust him, if he is to be saved, If this is the case, He has to grant people the ability to believe in the gospel.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Ouch, The curse can not be removed until justification occures.

A person is not born again while still under the penalty of sin

God demands a person choses to trust him, if he is to be saved, If this is the case, He has to grant people the ability to believe in the gospel.

No one can be Justified if they are Cursed.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Jesus destroys the works of the Devil by Circumcising the Heart. This is how Colossians 2:9-15 concludes. It is the Circumcision of Christ that "defeats the devil."

1 John 3:8 NIV - "The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work."

Colossians 2:9-15 NIV - "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No one can be Justified if they are Cursed.

Your right, Being justified REMOVES the curse..

A man who is guilty is cursed. Unless that guilt is paid by another (redemption) once redemption is paid the person is justified.

However. That person still has to make a choice. Recieve his freedom by accepting the redemption.

Or rejecting the redemption and stay in prison.

He who believes is not condemned (justified) he who does not believe is condemned already (still in prison) because he has not believed.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Jesus destroys the works of the Devil by Circumcising the Heart. This is how Colossians 2:9-15 concludes. It is the Circumcision of Christ that "defeats the devil."

1 John 3:8 NIV - "The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work."

Colossians 2:9-15 NIV - "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."

Yes

But non of that takes place UNTIL a person says yes.

The tax collector gd on his knees and cried out for Gods mercy. He went home justified. He did not get on his knees justified.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Your right, Being justified REMOVES the curse..

That seems right. Makes perfect sense.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

However. That person still has to make a choice.

I don't think we can make that choice until the Curse has been removed.

Romans 8:8 NLT - "That's why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God."

If a person could choose Christ while Cursed, then the above passage would be in error. At least, that's the way it seems (to me),

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The tax collector gd on his knees and cried out for Gods mercy. He went home justified. He did not get on his knees justified.

I would say that Christ had already Circumcised his heart, thus enabling him to Turn and Repent.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I don't think we can make that choice until the Curse has been removed.

Romans 8:8 NLT - "That's why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God."

If a person could choose Christ while Cursed, then the above passage would be in error. At least, that's the way it seems (to me),

Then no one can go to hell

Because you can’t send someone to hell who never even had the ability to repent.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Here is more supporting Scripture:

Backhistory: Christ had just healed this man.

John 9:39-41 NLT - 39 Then Jesus told him, "I entered this world to render judgment--to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind." 40 Some Pharisees who were standing nearby heard him and asked, "Are you saying we're blind?" 41 "If you were blind, you wouldn't be guilty," Jesus replied. "But you remain guilty because you claim you can see.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I would say that Christ had already Circumcised his heart, thus enabling him to Turn and Repent.

Then God is a respector of persons.

He chose him, and that enabled him to repent, and did not chose the other.. which prevented them the ability to repent.

That is not being a fair God, and the whole universe would see that.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Here is more supporting Scripture:

Backhistory: Christ had just healed this man.

John 9:39-41 NLT - 39 Then Jesus told him, "I entered this world to render judgment--to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind." 40 Some Pharisees who were standing nearby heard him and asked, "Are you saying we're blind?" 41 "If you were blind, you wouldn't be guilty," Jesus replied. "But you remain guilty because you claim you can see.

Yep

why? Because they did not believe. They had every opportunity to believe. In fact some dude. Say, nicodemus to just mention a few.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Then no one can go to hell

Because you can’t send someone to hell who never even had the ability to repent.

God knows before hand who He will give to Christ . . . and Christ shall lose none.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Then God is a respector of persons.

He chose him, and that enabled him to repent, and did not chose the other.. which prevented them the ability to repent.

That is not being a fair God, and the whole universe would see that.

I hear you, but Scripture tells us that before the world was created, He knew who would be His, and that's because of what is written upon His Heavenly Scroll which cannot be overturned.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Yep

why? Because they did not believe. They had every opportunity to believe. In fact some dude. Say, nicodemus to just mention a few.

No, they didn't have the chance to believe. They were placed under a deep sleep.

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - 7 So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. 8 As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

God knows before hand who He will give to Christ . . . and Christ shall lose none.

Yep he does

Whoever sees and believes

’that is his will

Whoever believes is not condemned.