Reading The First Five Chapters Of Revelations Without Stopping

[Pablo2021]

70th week was fulfilled right after the 69th week, right? After all, the prophecy says "70 weeks" not "69 weeks plus 2,000+ years plus 1 week".

Hello, Phoneman 777: I'm following you, and therefore, received the little bell notification that you had just posted. Now, sincerely, I do not quite know whether I am allowed to try to answer to this question of yours or not; but I will take the risk, taking it as if it were an open question to be answered by anyone in this thread. Here we go...:

The 69th week was fulfilled at the moment Messiah was cut off (sacrificed on the post)

From the Persian king Artaxerxes' DECREE to rebuild Jerusalem (445 B.C.) up to the date that Messiah was cut (33A.D. --with a misscalculation on the part of the Gregorian calendar of aprox. 5 years, should be 38 A.D.) (Savior was born 5

Which adds up to the 483 years (69 weeks x 7 years/week = 483 years)

At that moment, God's prophetic clock time relating Israel stopped (paused) to give effect to what is called "The times of the Gentiles" or "The Church Age". So, the 70th week will resume right after the Church is taken up by our Lord.

 

[Pablo2021]

Well that was an interesting post but was there some point you were trying to make?

Awelight: Please, allow me to interject a little: I think I can see what's in the course of the verses shared by Friend.

Me, as Mexican, am pretty aware of what means to live in darkness, thick one, from generations; especially because we, Latin Americans have typically been under the strong spells of Catholic religion and politics.

So, when the real Good News is preached to us, that light is overwhelming too, obviously, in a liberating, awesome way. And yet, distractions, misssteps, or any other hindrance, threatens to darken back our lives.

But keeping in mind these facts as described in the tandem of verses so listed, it takes all the way to the throne, Us being the very Seven Eyes of the Lamb!!

Because prior to this revelation given to John, he had been told the lampstands were the seven churches equaling the Seven Spirits of God... Even Paul --you remember?--, he said we were seated with Christ in the heavenlies; which, as we know, there's only ONE throne, in which He has promised all the saved will be sitting down. How come? IN HIM, because we are His Body, we have the MIND of Christ, and he who joins to the Lord is ONE SPIRIT.

Eph. 2:6
1Co 6:17
1Co 2:16

 

[Rondonmon]

70th week was fulfilled right after the 69th week, right? After all, the prophecy says "70 weeks" not "69 weeks plus 2,000+ years plus 1 week".

No sir, the Judgment is against Israel. Its in three different Prophesies to start with, The Wall, the Death and the Agreement between the Anti-Christ and THE MANY (not just Israel). The Dan. 9:24-27 passage clearly states that Israel MUST REPENT before the 70 weeks judgment can end. Satan is very good at twisting scriptures (Ye shall not surely die). Israel has to repent, that doesn't mean when Jesus dies for their sins !! when do we get forgiveness? When we accept Jesus' as our savior, not when he died, else all men would be heaven bound.

By the way, if tis all happened in 70 AD (it didn't) there would still be a 37 year Gap !!

God sees Israel as "Dead Men's Bones" from 70 AD until 1948, maybe even from 33 AD when the Veil was rent into. Thus, there was no Israel in God's eyes. Thus they can't make recompence as a nation, only as individuals, thus they were blinded IN PART (as a Nation, not as individuals).

We have THREE MARKERS, the Wall, The Death of Messiah AND the coming Agreement with Israel and THE MANY.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Hello, Phoneman 777: I'm following you, and therefore, received the little bell notification that you had just posted. Now, sincerely, I do not quite know whether I am allowed to try to answer to this question of yours or not; but I will take the risk, taking it as if it were an open question to be answered by anyone in this thread. Here we go...:

The 69th week was fulfilled at the moment Messiah was cut off (sacrificed on the post)

From the Persian king Artaxerxes' DECREE to rebuild Jerusalem (445 B.C.) up to the date that Messiah was cut (33A.D. --with a misscalculation on the part of the Gregorian calendar of aprox. 5 years, should be 38 A.D.) (Savior was born 5

Which adds up to the 483 years (69 weeks x 7 years/week = 483 years)

At that moment, God's prophetic clock time relating Israel stopped (paused) to give effect to what is called "The times of the Gentiles" or "The Church Age". So, the 70th week will resume right after the Church is taken up by our Lord.

Hi, Pablo, the 445 B.C. date is often appealed to for the starting point of calculating "from the going forth of the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem", as well as the idea that "Messiah" means "commander" and is reckoned to refer to His triumphant entry, which points the end of the 69th week to His death. But that's not the case: because "Messiah" primarily means "anointed" which occurred not at His death, but in Jordan at His baptism when He was anointed by the Holy Spirit, not by a crowd that just a week later yelled "crucify Him!"

The 445 B.C. decree was merely a reinstatement of the original decree in 457 B.C. (suspended due to interference by Tobias and company) found in Ezra 7, which was proclaimed "in the seventh year reign of Artaxerxes" and is the absolute most confirmed date in all the Bible, proven by extra-Biblical archaeology. That's why if you grab a really old KJV Bible with margins l you'll discover the date "457 B.C." written in.

By counting from 457 B.C., we come to 27 A.D, which was not Jesus' birth or death, but the year He was baptized.

How do we know?

Because Luke 3:1 KJV says His baptism was in "15th year reign of Tiberius, Pilate...Herod..." , the only year all three reigned simultaneously. According to the ancient Syro-Macedonian calendar which no doubt was the one being used at that time in that region, that simultaneous reign was in the year 27 A.D.

Therefore, Jesus was baptized in 27 A.D., crucified in 31 A.D., and the Gospel went to the Gentiles in 34 A.D.

 

[Phoneman-777]

No sir, the Judgment is against Israel. Its in three different Prophesies to start with, The Wall, the Death and the Agreement between the Anti-Christ and THE MANY (not just Israel). The Dan. 9:24-27 passage clearly states that Israel MUST REPENT before the 70 weeks judgment can end.

It does? Where?

 

[Rondonmon]

It does? Where?

My Blog of 5 years ago already answers this. I gave you the answer as in Dan. 9:24-27 but verse 24 defines it.

Daniel's 70 Weeks Decree against Israel

In Daniel 9:24, Daniel prophesied that these six things must come to pass before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled. Some think Jesus fulfilled all of these, most seem to think, as I do, that these things have not come to pass, and when they do that will be the end of the age.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (This was not a part of my original blog, but I wanted to place the scripture here also.)

1. Finish the transgression (Israel has to stop their transgressions against God, they only do that when Elijah comes)
2. Make and end of sins (Israel has to stop Willful Sins against God, not sin nature which is in the 100 year reign)
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity (Israel has to Repent, Jesus death wont reconcile anyone without repentance)
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness (By the time the 70th week ends Jesus has to be reigning in His Righteousness)
5. To seal up vision and prophecy (The 70th week must Seal Up all prophetic visions and utterings by God)
6. Anoint the most Holy (Jesus is the Most Holy, he will be anointed Lord of lords and Kings of kings)

1. The Hebrew word used for transgression denotes revolt or rebellion. The Jewish people chose to reject God, many even chose to stay in Babylon once they were freed. It also denotes their rejection of Jesus Christ. Jesus prophesied in Matthew 23 that the Jewish people would not see him again until they accepted him. Matt. 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. So in order for Jesus to return, Israel has to repent of their rejection of God/Jesus, and Israel will open their hearts to the Messiah, as Paul, Isaiah and Zechariah (Zechariah 12:10) prophesied, amongst others.

2. This is fairly straightforward, willful sins can only end when the millennial reign starts, so by the time this 70 week decree is over, Jesus will have to have returned to set up his kingdom, ushering in the millennial kingdom where there will be no willful sins. Since the tribulation week is the last week of the 70 weeks decree, that makes perfect sense, as soon as the tribulation period ends, or the “time of Jacob’s trouble” ends, then “willful sins will end”. Mankind living during Jesus' 1000 year reign will still have sin nature, but no desire to sin under Jesus Christ.

3. Israel has to be reconciled unto God before the 70 weeks have been fulfilled. There is no doubt that Jesus died for all of our sins, thus the atonement for sins has been made, but there is a conditional requirement for all of us to receive that atonement, we must accept Jesus as our Savior. When Israel accepts the Messiah Jesus, as their Messiah of Salvation (Yeshua means Salvation), then the atonement for sins will have been completed, and Israel will have been reconciled unto God, thereby ushering in the millennial kingdom.

4. This 70 week decree has to bring in everlasting righteousness, and we know this can not happen until Jesus sets up his Kingdom. This world has always had wickedness under Satan, and always will until Jesus is Lord of lords and King of kings. By the time Daniels prophecy ends, it must usher in everlasting righteousness.

5. Seal up vision and prophecy, the word used here denotes to close up, meaning that before this 70th week can come to an end, all prophecy must be fulfilled or closed up. This will only happen when Israel accepts Jesus as their Messiah and he lands on Mt. Zion to rule over this wicked world with a rod of iron.

6. The very last goal that this 70 week prophecy has to usher in is the anointing of the most holy. The bible says most holy, many try to add holy place, but whether it is the temple being anointed, or Jesus Christ as Lord of lords and King of kings as I suspect, we know this must happen before the 70 weeks decree is fulfilled. And Jesus must return and rule on earth for his 1000 year reign.

All six of these things have to happen before this prophecy can be totally fulfilled. These are six spiritual goals that have to come to pass or this prophecy will not be finished or sealed up. We know these things have not come to pass yet, but we also know they are very near to happening, therefore watch, for Israel is now a nation again, and the world is against her in mass, soon she will need her Messiah's help, then she will call upon him, and he will save her from this wicked world.
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I spend a lot of time on my blogs so the spelling us much better.........

 

[Friend]

It does? Where?

Hello Phoneman:

It's easy to drift into conjecture; the 7 weeks accounts for the 49 years to rebuild Nehemiah's temple.​

Dan 9:25-27 "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

The previous verse accounts for saviors execution/cut off 62 weeks later, when thereafter: (by the August 70 AD) the 6th Beast/Rome destroys the Temple/City... Form "Pentocost"/"Weeks"...

"Weeks" accounts for the times of the Gentiles (an undeterminable amount of time) which end is the Rapture (like in the days of Noah when the unbelieving are left behind: The same day the treaty with Israel is Ratified, but broken 3.5 years later.​

Again, any narrative beyond this is clearly drifting away from what is plain to see here, and even what is well Established by Historians. With Egypt and Assyria + the Four Beasts / Empires of Daniel; that takes us to the Fall of Ancient Rome with the Book of Revelations giving us the 7th Beast (The 70th week) "for a little while" in the Future.​

27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

From Pentecost/weeks, that is (on the Jewish calendar) the next observance is the trumpets, with the first/last for the church sounded on the first day of the seventh month (during the fig, date and Grape Harvest) where before the middle of the "week" (Pentecost) and thereafter "tabernacles" comprehending temporary places of worship for 3 1/2 years in the "wilderness"; but hereafter returning to the promise land flowing with milk and honey... From the Voice Like a trumpet (at the beginning of Chapter Four) the church is only mentioned one more time but not until 19 chapters later; when the narrative pops back into the times of the Gentiles...​

 

[awelight]

I agree, because we must have a correct understanding of the Gospel if we are to be equipped with the knowledge necessary to avoid getting the Mark of the Beast:

"And I say another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the EVERLASTING GOSPEL to preach unto them that dwell in the Earth, to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people....And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation..." ​

​

But, while the Gospel is of primary importance, God says those who read and understand Revelation are blessed, and I want all the blessings I can get my hands on.

There is serious theological error in this line of thinking. You said: "..we must have a correct understanding of the Gospel if we are to be equipped with the knowledge necessary to avoid getting the Mark of the Beast:"

To begin with, all of God's chosen people are sealed with the Holy Spirt:

Eph_1:13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,--in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph_4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption.

If one possesses the "seal" of the Holy Spirit they CANNOT receive the "mark" or seal of the Beast. One cannot possess both marks. This "mark" or "seal" denotes the idea of the "seal" of a particular king. These seals, were public testimony as to authority and ownership, in ancient days.

Secondly, the mark of the Beast will only come upon the non-elect: Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall come.

Thirdly, the A-Millennial view of future events, is fraught with errors. The last week of Daniels prophecy is yet future. The historical view of the A-Millennial teachings do not holdup under scrutiny. Additionally, their view destroys the OT promises of God to Israel. This view attempts to make synonymous the Church and the Kingdom but yet, the disciples of Christ, knew not of any established Kingdom. Acts 1:6 They therefore, when they were come together, asked him, saying, Lord, dost thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel? The Lord did not correct them on this issue, so they must have had it right but said to them: Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know times or seasons, which the Father hath set within His own authority.

 

[awelight]

Awelight: Please, allow me to interject a little: I think I can see what's in the course of the verses shared by Friend.

Me, as Mexican, am pretty aware of what means to live in darkness, thick one, from generations; especially because we, Latin Americans have typically been under the strong spells of Catholic religion and politics.

So, when the real Good News is preached to us, that light is overwhelming too, obviously, in a liberating, awesome way. And yet, distractions, misssteps, or any other hindrance, threatens to darken back our lives.

But keeping in mind these facts as described in the tandem of verses so listed, it takes all the way to the throne, Us being the very Seven Eyes of the Lamb!!

Because prior to this revelation given to John, he had been told the lampstands were the seven churches equaling the Seven Spirits of God... Even Paul --you remember?--, he said we were seated with Christ in the heavenlies; which, as we know, there's only ONE throne, in which He has promised all the saved will be sitting down. How come? IN HIM, because we are His Body, we have the MIND of Christ, and he who joins to the Lord is ONE SPIRIT.

Eph. 2:6
1Co 6:17
1Co 2:16

Pablo, thanks for replying. Am glad to hear that you came out from Catholicism. Their teachings, that salvation is a combination of faith and works, is pure heresy. It is the modern equivalent of the Jewish religious teachings that reject Christ's Person and Work.

There are a few things I would like to point out however: The number seven, as used in Christ's final Revelation to John, is always symbolic of of Divine totality or completion. It rarely, if ever, is applied to man. The number of man is six. One short of God's number. Six, because what is created cannot be as complete as it's creator. In every aspect of our Person and Nature, we fall short. Albert Barnes had this to say about the number seven:

The number seven is evidently a favorite number in the Book of Revelation, and it might be used by the author in places, and in a sense, such as it would not be likely to be used by another writer. Thus, there are seven epistles to the seven churches; there are seven seals, seven trumpets, seven vials of the wrath of God, seven last plagues; there are seven lamps, and seven Spirits of God; the Lamb has seven horns and seven eyes. In Rev_1:16, seven stars are mentioned; in Rev_5:12, seven attributes of God; Rev_12:3, the dragon has seven heads; Rev_13:1, the beast has seven heads. Each used as a completeness of a Person or thing.

You said the following: "..Us being the very Seven Eyes of the Lamb!!" Sorry, but we are not the seven eyes. Let's look at this verse for a moment:

Rev 5:6 And I saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, having seven horns, and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent forth into all the earth.

The seven horns - Denote the complete power and authority of the Lamb (Jesus Christ). The seven eyes - Denote the knowledge and inspection of the Lamb, He knows and sees all things. The seven Spirts - Denote the all encompassing work of the one Holy Spirit, who has placed Himself under the Lamb's authority. The Holy Spirit's ministry is to: Regenerate, Illuminate and Seal the hearts and minds of those the Lamb sends Him too and the ones He is sent too, are the ones the Father gave to the Lamb.

Additionally, on the subject of numbers: In Revelation, the number of the Beast is said to be 666. This 666 is not to be understood as a literal number only but is symbolic as too the Trinity of the Devil. You have God's Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit and there will be the Devil's Trinity - Satan (Lucifer), Anti-Christ and False Prophet.

Some of your other comments gets into Eschatological variations and beliefs. To complicated to go into now.

By the way, you should not feel a need to tell people you are Mexican. If you are in Christ, then we are all the same. True believers care not about ones ethnic background or color, just about ones love for the Gospel and Doctrine's of our Lord.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

There is serious theological error in this line of thinking. You said: "..we must have a correct understanding of the Gospel if we are to be equipped with the knowledge necessary to avoid getting the Mark of the Beast:"

Phoneman is saying that if a person is not equipped, that person is not saved. His statement is spot on.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Hello Phoneman:

It's easy to drift into conjecture; the 7 weeks accounts for the 49 years to rebuild Nehemiah's temple.​

Dan 9:25-27 "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

The previous verse accounts for saviors execution/cut off 62 weeks later, when thereafter: (by the August 70 AD) the 6th Beast/Rome destroys the Temple/City... Form "Pentocost"/"Weeks"...

"Weeks" accounts for the times of the Gentiles (an undeterminable amount of time) which end is the Rapture (like in the days of Noah when the unbelieving are left behind: The same day the treaty with Israel is Ratified, but broken 3.5 years later.​

Again, any narrative beyond this is clearly drifting away from what is plain to see here, and even what is well Established by Historians. With Egypt and Assyria + the Four Beasts / Empires of Daniel; that takes us to the Fall of Ancient Rome with the Book of Revelations giving us the 7th Beast (The 70th week) "for a little while" in the Future.​

27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

From Pentecost/weeks, that is (on the Jewish calendar) the next observance is the trumpets, with the first/last for the church sounded on the first day of the seventh month (during the fig, date and Grape Harvest) where before the middle of the "week" (Pentecost) and thereafter "tabernacles" comprehending temporary places of worship for 3 1/2 years in the "wilderness"; but hereafter returning to the promise land flowing with milk and honey... From the Voice Like a trumpet (at the beginning of Chapter Four) the church is only mentioned one more time but not until 19 chapters later; when the narrative pops back into the times of the Gentiles...​

I always ask proponents of the "gap" theory to try this: Go to work and take your lunch hour at 12:00 but instead of coming back at 1, don't come back until 2. When the boss says, "Where the flip you been? You only get one hour for lunch and were supposed to be back at 1:00!" just tell him, "Boss, didn't you know? There's a "one hour gap" between 12:59 and 1:00, so I've only been gone an hour!

"Seventy Weeks are determine..." not "seventy weeks plus 2,000 years". It's a Numerically Specific Time Prophecy which starts in 457 B.C. and ends 490 years later in 34 A.D.

 

[awelight]

Phoneman is saying that if a person is not equipped, that person is not saved. His statement is spot on.

Interesting - I went back over the entire thread and I never saw where such a claim was made by phoneman, as you posted here. Are you his interpreter. LOL

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Interesting - I went back over the entire thread and I never saw where such a claim was made by phoneman, as you posted here. Are you his interpreter. LOL

Interesting question. No. I'm not his interpreter.

But what he's saying is obvious in relation to what I wrote and the subsequent Scripture that he issued to support what I wrote. Instead of my being his interpreter, we simply happen to be in agreement, thus it's simple to understand what he's saying.

 

[awelight]

I always ask proponents of the "gap" theory to try this: Go to work and take your lunch hour at 12:00 but instead of coming back at 1, don't come back until 2. When the boss says, "Where the flip you been? You only get one hour for lunch and were supposed to be back at 1:00!" just tell him, "Boss, didn't you know? There's a "one hour gap" between 12:59 and 1:00, so I've only been gone an hour!

"Seventy Weeks are determine..." not "seventy weeks plus 2,000 years". It's a Numerically Specific Time Prophecy which starts in 457 B.C. and ends 490 years later in 34 A.D.

Interesting and somewhat humanistic approach to a problem. By this reasoning, then there should be no "gap" between Christ's First Advent and His Second. All of the OT prophecies, concerning this matter, ran the events together. Thus, Christ should have come and been received as Messiah and crowned King of Israel, sat upon David's Throne and overthrown the Roman's.

Gaps appear throughout OT Prophecies. How about this one:

Gen_3:15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Let's see, it took only about four-thousand years to bring about the second part of this prophecy. The first part - bruise or smash his head, has not yet happened, Satan is alive and well.

 

[awelight]

Interesting question. No. I'm not his interpreter.

But what he's saying is obvious in relation to what I wrote and the subsequent Scripture that he issued to support what I wrote. Instead of my being his interpreter, we simply happen to be in agreement, thus it's simple to understand what he's saying.

Alrighty then.

 

[Rondonmon]

I always ask proponents of the "gap" theory to try this: Go to work and take your lunch hour at 12:00 but instead of coming back at 1, don't come back until 2. When the boss says, "Where the flip you been? You only get one hour for lunch and were supposed to be back at 1:00!" just tell him, "Boss, didn't you know? There's a "one hour gap" between 12:59 and 1:00, so I've only been gone an hour!

"Seventy Weeks are determine..." not "seventy weeks plus 2,000 years". It's a Numerically Specific Time Prophecy which starts in 457 B.C. and ends 490 years later in 34 A.D.

It is no theory, its facts. The problem is you are trying to make God subject to TIME, He is not subject to time as we humans are. He is not from this universe and God only created this time construct (universe) for us, and maybe the Angels before us. God sees things differently from us firstly, secondly, God gave the prophesy in three different sections for a reason. Not to amuse us.

The Prophesy is about Israel receiving a punishment for 70 weeks. When Jesus was put to death, God from that point on saw Israel as Dead Mn's Bones, how can an UNLIVING ENTITY (Nation) be punished? Again, God sees what He sees, not what we wish Him to see, God says they were dead unto him at that point in time. The prophesy was put forth to make Israel come unto repentance, they never have repented as a nation, tbh, this isn't even that hard of a prophesy like some are. They will thus repent just before the DOTL when the Two-witnesses (who are the 1335 blessing) show up 75 days before the Beast shows up to conquer Israel/The Many (1260) and 45 days before the False Prophet forbids Jesus Worship(1290) in the temple AND defiles the now (by that time) cleansed temple by placing an Image of the E.U. President in the holy place, were IT out not stand, not where HE ought not stand.

Anyone who thinks Israel has repented already is just kidding themselves brother.

YES, it is 70 weeks of Judgment against a LIVING BREATING NATION, ever wonder why God called them Dead Men's Bones from 33 AD or 70 AD until 1948? He saw Israel as a Non Entity, thus they were not a nation, this is why after the Rapture, if you take out the Church Age, Nebuchadnezzars Statue fits together as one statue, this is why the Fourth Beast have the 10 PLUSS the Little Horn arising out of heir Head (Europe and the Anti-Christ) This is also why England and the Ottoman Empire are not Beast Kingdoms over the area in God's eyes, its all about Nations who had dominion over Israel AND the whole Mediterranean Sea Region, not one or the other.

 

[Pablo2021]

If you are in Christ, then we are all the same. True believers care not about ones ethnic background or color, just about ones love for the Gospel and Doctrine's of our Lord.

Exactly that, awelight: The Gospel and Doctrines of our Lord!!...

I agree with you in that we're all the same in Christ (whether barbarians or Greeks or Jewish; wise or unwise men, etc.) I was rather speaking from the standpoint of someone who's been born and raised, basically, in a country-and-culture deeply rooted in a most corrupted religious (and therefore social) spells not that easy to break.

I'll give you an example: During the Spanish domain in "The New Spain" (mainly Mexico), it was common to see the Spaniards back in Spain, both laymen and clerics, buying, or paying for, the public or religious offices available to be assigned for to work in Mexico. And once they took office, it was also customary for them to get back their "invested" moneys by levying heavier taxes or by (further) selling of job positions, taking/asking for bribes, etc., etc.; and this went all the way down the social ladder up until now. And what else could it be expected from an environment like this? Only our Blessed Saior Anointed could save us! Nonetheless, it remains the need in me to realize where I come from, where I am, and how I can face these realities. Like when the apostle instructed Titus what sort of teaching he should deliver to the brethren, and why:

[Tit 1:5-9, 12-13 NASB95] 5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you,

6 [namely,] if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.

7 For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain,

8 but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled,

9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict. ...

12 One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." 13 This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith.

 

[Phoneman-777]

There is serious theological error in this line of thinking. You said: "..we must have a correct understanding of the Gospel if we are to be equipped with the knowledge necessary to avoid getting the Mark of the Beast:"

To begin with, all of God's chosen people are sealed with the Holy Spirt:

Eph_1:13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,--in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph_4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption.

If one possesses the "seal" of the Holy Spirit they CANNOT receive the "mark" or seal of the Beast. One cannot possess both marks. This "mark" or "seal" denotes the idea of the "seal" of a particular king. These seals, were public testimony as to authority and ownership, in ancient days.

Secondly, the mark of the Beast will only come upon the non-elect: Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall come.

Thirdly, the A-Millennial view of future events, is fraught with errors. The last week of Daniels prophecy is yet future. The historical view of the A-Millennial teachings do not holdup under scrutiny. Additionally, their view destroys the OT promises of God to Israel. This view attempts to make synonymous the Church and the Kingdom but yet, the disciples of Christ, knew not of any established Kingdom. Acts 1:6 They therefore, when they were come together, asked him, saying, Lord, dost thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel? The Lord did not correct them on this issue, so they must have had it right but said to them: Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know times or seasons, which the Father hath set within His own authority.

Yes, the "seal" is not the kind that prevents the escape of contents contained inside the thing sealed...the Seal of God affixed by the Holy Spirit refers to the "sign", a "mark", remember Romans 4:11 KJV?

Romans 4:11 KJV shows us that "sign" and "seal" are identical - they are outward indication of the inward condition, period. The two words are used INTERCHANGABLY in Scripture.

OSAS tries to make the seal out to be something that keeps saved people from becoming lost but they just don't have Scripture to back it up. Jesus said in Matthew 24:12-13 KJV there will be plenty saints that allow abounding iniquity to kill their "agape" cold and dead, but "he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" which includes having to endure the time of the Beast and the Mark of the Beast...which is why we need a correct understanding of the Gospel.

 

[Pablo2021]

I always ask proponents of the "gap" theory to try this: Go to work and take your lunch hour at 12:00 but instead of coming back at 1, don't come back until 2. When the boss says, "Where the flip you been? You only get one hour for lunch and were supposed to be back at 1:00!" just tell him, "Boss, didn't you know? There's a "one hour gap" between 12:59 and 1:00, so I've only been gone an hour!

"Seventy Weeks are determine..." not "seventy weeks plus 2,000 years". It's a Numerically Specific Time Prophecy which starts in 457 B.C. and ends 490 years later in 34 A.D.

Hello Phoneman 777: What a number of us is displaying is that the last week, the 70th week, is still pending according to God's clock regarding Prophecy for Israel.

We remember, Daniel was praying, asking about the 70-year captivity spoken of by Jeremiah; but Gabriel revealed him not about 70 literal years, but 70 weeks (of years) And here's the game changer: Now the messenger is telling him about "70 weeks" relating Yaweh's/Eternal's purposes for His people Israel!! And, well, we know the rest: the Artaxerxes decree carried on by Nehemiah (which marked the start for the 70 weeks = 490 years)...

[Dan 9:2, 21, 24 NASB20] 2 in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, observed in the books the number of the years which was [revealed as] the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet for the completion of the desolations of Jerusalem, [namely,] seventy years. ... 21 while I was still speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision previously, came to me in [my] extreme weariness about the time of the evening offering. ... 24 "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the wrongdoing, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

(PART 1/2)​

 

[Phoneman-777]

Interesting - I went back over the entire thread and I never saw where such a claim was made by phoneman, as you posted here. Are you his interpreter. LOL

I kinda did. We can't expect a person to be saved who has a wrong interpretation of the Gospel. While we're not to judge eternal destinies, would anyone argue that David Koresh will be in the kingdom? What about pedophile priests to whom almost a billion Catholics look to for intercession? What about (dare I say it?) the OSAS crowd who think they can climb down into the pit of sin, sit comfortable among the filth, swat away the uplifting hand of Jesus and flash their OSAS Licence to Sin in His face?

Every one of these folks believe or did believe they had a good bead on the Gospel.