Soul sleep is a false doctrine
- Thread starter ewq1938
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
IF you make it to Heaven, you can tell the LORD Jesus HE taught false doctrine.
After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue,
standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands.
And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb!”
And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. And they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God forever and ever! Amen.”
Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”
“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”
So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason,
they are before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in His temple;
Revelation 7:9-15
i agree
They have one verse that can be explained, and hang their whole theory on it. The majority of Bible verses say that "the dead know nothing" and the theory of spiritualism is mixed through this disembodied spirit thinking which was invented in paganism, the devil.
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
The first lie was about not dying,
you wont die you lie as a spirit..... is a lie of the devil
There are exceptions.... some people were raised when Jesus was raised.... God raised Moses, Elijah and Enoch are in heaven,
we don't know how many God has raised as an exception but we know that the day of His coming is the time when the saved will be raised. and white robes can't be worn by spirits.
Jesus assured the people of His day, “...thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just” (Luke 14:14). Again, He said, “For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works” (Matthew 16:27). There is no equivocation here. If the saved go straight to heaven as a spirit they would be enjoying their reward. The reward is given at the second coming.
If i had a father that really loved me and he died a few years ago. Do you think he would enjoy watching me suffer a painful life of sin and watching me choose sinful strife . Heaven would be hell for my loving father.
"The dead" refers to dead people. You read "dead bodies" into the verse because of your belief.
Can i understand your belief...
is this how you understand it? = When a person dies their body goes to the grave and the disembodied spirit, or character of the person lives on in a spiritual form. both saved and unsaved.
Soul is a term that has been twisted in its meaning so be careful.. Soul in the bible means dust and breath of life. Gods life + physical form. souls do die.
Being able to exist in a realm, spiritual dimension separated from the body was invented by paganism many years ago and is evil.
God can exist anywhere and everywhere but we are moral humans that depend on God for life.
i was referring to the verses below for Enoch and Elijah.
2Ki 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal......
2Ki 2:9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.
2Ki 2:10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.
2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
2Ki 2:12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.
Heb_11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Elijah was taken into heaven (the sky, where the birds fly. Think "birds of heaven", a phrase used a few times in the Bible.) and moved from one place to another. This was to underscore the transfer of leadership to Elisha. If the prophets thought he was taken to heaven where God is, they would not have bothered to go look for him. Also, if Elijah could go to heaven before Jesus Christ died for our sins, then anyone could, and the work of Christ was not necessary.
Enoch prophesied during a time of great evil. He was translated (moved) from one place to another to prevent his being killed by those seeking his life. We know from verse 13 that he died. And if Enoch could go to heaven before Christ paid the price for sins, then anyone could, and what Christ went through was not necessary.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Revelation chapter 6 and chapter 7 are not about exceptions. They are literal Souls of the dead in Christ.
When CHRIST died on the Cross the entrance to Heaven was made open for all of His Saints.
And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
Yes, that is seen here:
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Ecc 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Luk 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 20:38 He is not a God of dead, but of living men, for to Him are all living."
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
2Co 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
No one is dead or sleeping in heaven with the Lord.
Luk_23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
The spirit goes to God!
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Every eye shall see him, even those that had pierced him though they died long ago. If they were asleep or dead they couldn't witness his return!
That's one meaning but soul has another meaning as well:
Soul has three definitions.
1: the word soul is an old English term that could be used in place of the word "person" or "human being". Basically if you had a soul you could be called a soul.
2: The word soul can be a reference to the human body.
3: the word soul is also the spiritual part of human beings (it's moral and emotional aspect), and survives death and will wait for a physical body to inhabit again at the resurrection.
1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Here we have all the parts that comprise a whole person:
body
soul
spirit
The soul here is definition 3.
1Pe_3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Here soul is speaking of all three, body soul and spirit together as a complete person. This would be a soul as in definition 1 and 2.
Human beings have a soul and a spirit and a body. Colloquially a person is a "soul" but a different type of soul than the soul within us.
No, it is a biblical doctrine.
The first death is death of body. When you see that dead body you can say, "John is dead". That is not a reference to his living soul which is in heaven.
It is what the bible tells us and I proved it and you side-stepped passed the scriptural references that was proof. That's called dodging because you cannot dispute scriptures given.
Study the KJV Bible;
John 11; 11...“These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.”
(Hum!!!...twice in one sentence !!!!!)
We are reminded that we humans say dead...Christ in the spirit world says...sleep.
You should be the one studying since you are "dead wrong" pun intended:
Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
In otherwords disciples made the same mistake you are making.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
By your understanding of death, he was only physically wrong, not spiritually wrong. IOW, he wasn't wrong at all.
God bless you all. You're going to believe what you want. I'm out.
The only people wrong were the disciples and you soul deathers. Christ said Lazarus was sleeping as in dead. The disciples misunderstood so Christ had to correct them that he was saying Lazarus was dead, not actually sleeping. The soul sleep and soul death doctrines follow the same mistake the disciples made, not learning from their mistake but continuing the error.
You're the one making the mistake and can't see it though it's right in front of your eyes.
Lazarus was DEAD! You say he wasn't.
But carry on. I know I said I was out, but now I am. No more responses from me. Believe what you like.