Saved by Water

[Wansvic]

Please don't make such silly and condescending claims.

Can you point to anyone who has claimed that they don't believe Acts 2:38? No, you can't.

The issue that those who are "immersed" in the requirement for water baptism for salvation simply misunderstand and misapply the verse.

You guys claim it is THE pattern for salvation. We KNOW it was ONLY for that immediate crowd, who SAW the miracles of Jesus and then shouted "crucify Him, crucify Him".

By Acts 10, Cornelius received salvation and the Spirit on the basis of faith, BEFORE Peter was convinced by the evidence to water baptize them.

Gal 3:2 and 5 gives the NT pattern for receiving the Spirit; by believing the gospel.

Your theory is all wet.

Not so.

Ananias told Paul he would be a witness to all men and that baptism was to be done in order to wash away sin. This is consistent with the message proclaimed earlier by Peter. (Acts 2:38)


"And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:14-16

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Jesus said he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. He did not say get baptized because you are saved. (Mark 16:16)

Actually he said in John 3 whoever believes will never die but has eternal life. He who believes is not condemned. He who does not believe is condemned already. No mention of water baptism in the conversation at all.

Again, You can;t make a doctrine by one passage.

I mean look at Jesus words..

• John 3:15
  that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
  
  
• John 3:16
  For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  
  
• John 3:18
  “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
  
  
• John 3:36
  He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
  
  
• John 5:24
  “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
  
  
• John 6:35
  And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
  
  
• John 6:40
  And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
  
  
• John 6:47
  Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
  
  
• John 7:38
  He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”
  
  
• John 11:25
  Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.
  
  
• John 11:26
  And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
  
  
• John 12:44
  Then Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me.
  
  
• John 12:46
  I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.

we have the same in acts 10:

Acts 10:43
To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

Acts 13:39
and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Paul even said it

Romans 10:11
For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

and I have just6 scratched the surface. And you want me to look at 1 verse where jesus mentions baptism and say he forgot to mention it in all the other passages? or is there another reason Jesus does not say it in ANY of the other passages, But says it in this one?

I personally would look at the moral majority of passages where belief alone is used

Then I would look at all the passages where the word faith not works is used.

Then I would look deeply and consider what is the means of salvation. ESPECIALLY since no one in the OT was saved by any work period.. and then ask my self if baptism IN WATER is required. why in the OT, where they too were saved by grace, Baptism (whicvh was practiced then) was not required then. but is now.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Interesting statement since you misunderstand what is conveyed in Matthew 28:19 and insist the proper way to baptize is using a phrase. A phrase that is never repeated in administering water baptism. In fact every single detailed record of water baptism is done in the name of the Lord Jesus.

well since you have not proven I misunderstood anything.

this comment is silly at best.

 

[Wansvic]

Your right he did not make a mistake.

He said to baptize in the name of the Father Son and Spirit.

So I will take him at his word.

Please provide scriptures where the apostles actually performed water baptisms that way.

 

[Wansvic]

Actually he said in John 3 whoever believes will never die but has eternal life. He who believes is not condemned. He who does not believe is condemned already. No mention of water baptism in the conversation at all.

Again, You can;t make a doctrine by one passage.

I mean look at Jesus words..

• John 3:15
  that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
  
  
• John 3:16
  For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  
  
• John 3:18
  “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
  
  
• John 3:36
  He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
  
  
• John 5:24
  “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
  
  
• John 6:35
  And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
  
  
• John 6:40
  And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
  
  
• John 6:47
  Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
  
  
• John 7:38
  He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”
  
  
• John 11:25
  Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.
  
  
• John 11:26
  And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
  
  
• John 12:44
  Then Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me.
  
  
• John 12:46
  I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.

we have the same in acts 10:

Acts 10:43
To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

Acts 13:39
and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Paul even said it

Romans 10:11
For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

and I have just6 scratched the surface. And you want me to look at 1 verse where jesus mentions baptism and say he forgot to mention it in all the other passages? or is there another reason Jesus does not say it in ANY of the other passages, But says it in this one?

I personally would look at the moral majority of passages where belief alone is used

Then I would look at all the passages where the word faith not works is used.

Then I would look deeply and consider what is the means of salvation. ESPECIALLY since no one in the OT was saved by any work period.. and then ask my self if baptism IN WATER is required. why in the OT, where they too were saved by grace, Baptism (whicvh was practiced then) was not required then. but is now.

So are you saying Jesus did not mean what He said in Mark 16:16?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Please provide scriptures where the apostles actually performed water baptisms that way.

lol..

I can see this will go no where..

what they did or did not do in no way negates what he said.

 

[Wansvic]

well since you have not proven I misunderstood anything.

this comment is silly at best.

Do you not know that truth will always be established be at least 2-3 scriptures? That is a fact, and as such if your understanding of what was stated in Matthew 28:19 were correct there would be at least 1 other scripture that said the same thing. There is not. All water baptisms were performed in the name of the Lord Jesus.

 

[Wansvic]

lol..

I can see this will go no where..

what they did or did not do in no way negates what he said.

So, as far as you are concerned they did not obey Jesus.

It really is no laughing matter. What is sad is those such as yourself refuse to accept what the bible confirms by numerous scriptures.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
I suggest that YOU more closely. It doesn't say "through Jesus' name".

Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

I don't know if your error is intentional or just reading too quickly, but the next TWO WORDS are the key to receiving remisison of sins.

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

The action for remission of sins is to believe in Christ. The result is to have sins remitted.

Does the word make the connection between the use of the name of the Lord Jesus and remission of sin?

Why in the world do you KEEP ignoring the issue in Acts 10:43???

Here is the phrase that you seem to love to ignore:

"whosoever believes in Him shall receive remission of sins".

The phrase "throuth His name" which you seem so fixated on, is directly tied to "believes in Him"

So, let me re-arrange the sentence without changing anything.

To Him give all the prophets witness, that whosoever believes in His Name shall receive remission of sins.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus said he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. He did not say get baptized because you are saved. (Mark 16:16)

Don't you know that Mark 16:9-20 is NOT found in the oldest and most reliable manuscripts? Those verses were ADDED much later by the scribes who copied manuscripts.

So don't handle snakes. You'll get bit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Not so.

Ananias told Paul he would be a witness to all men and that baptism was to be done in order to wash away sin. This is consistent with the message proclaimed earlier by Peter. (Acts 2:38)

Your fixation on Acts 2:38 is sad. I've already proven FROM SCRIPTURE (Cornelius and Gal 3:2,5) that your theory is all wet.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do you not know that truth will always be established be at least 2-3 scriptures?

Hey, great point. So, since we're counting, there are MULTITUDES of verses that leave out baptism. ALL you've got is 2 verses. There are over 25 that refute your theory.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So are you saying Jesus did not mean what He said in Mark 16:16?

so your going to say he did not mean what he said in all the passages I quoted. Her FORGOT to mention baptism?

Mark 16 could be spirit baptism. That would mean it keeps from contradicting all the passages I shared with you.

once again, Your stuck on one verse. while not even paying attention to all the other verses. I can;t make a gospel on one verse. when so many others do not say what you are claiming is required, is required.

If baptismn was required. Jesus would have said so in all those other passages.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So, as far as you are concerned they did not obey Jesus.

It really is no laughing matter. What is sad is those such as yourself refuse to accept what the bible confirms by numerous scriptures.

Your right its no laughing matter that you reject what Jesus said.

like I said. this will go no where.. You do not even want to discuss what Jesus said..

 

[Wansvic]

FreeGrace2 said:
I suggest that YOU more closely. It doesn't say "through Jesus' name".

Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

I don't know if your error is intentional or just reading too quickly, but the next TWO WORDS are the key to receiving remisison of sins.

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

The action for remission of sins is to believe in Christ. The result is to have sins remitted.

Why in the world do you KEEP ignoring the issue in Acts 10:43???

Here is the phrase that you seem to love to ignore:

"whosoever believes in Him shall receive remission of sins".

The phrase "throuth His name" which you seem so fixated on, is directly tied to "believes in Him"

So, let me re-arrange the sentence without changing anything.

To Him give all the prophets witness, that whosoever believes in His Name shall receive remission of sins.

Those who believe will receive remission of sins when water baptized in the name of Jesus. This is clarified by Peter in addressing those who believed in Jesus in Acts 2:38, and by Ananias in the case of Paul in Acts 22:16.

Furthermore after making the statement in verse 43, Peter commanded the group submit to water baptism in the name of the Lord. (Acts 10:47-48)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Do you not know that truth will always be established be at least 2-3 scriptures? That is a fact, and as such if your understanding of what was stated in Matthew 28:19 were correct there would be at least 1 other scripture that said the same thing. There is not. All water baptisms were performed in the name of the Lord Jesus.

ok. lets use this example

I gave you how many verses which Jesus never mentioned baptism in the means of being redeemed, Justified. Born again, and given eternal life

And you want me to look at one.

Excuse me if I call you out on doing the very thing you accuse me of doing.

I am just sharing what Jesus said in Matt 28. Take it or leave it.

 

[Wansvic]

If baptismn was required. Jesus would have said so in all those other passages.

Not so. Consider Jesus never brought up repentance either but it is required.

 

[Wansvic]

Mark 16 could be spirit baptism.

God gives the Holy Ghost, man has no control over that. However, man makes the choice whether to get water baptized or not.

 

[Wansvic]

Your right its no laughing matter that you reject what Jesus said.

like I said. this will go no where.. You do not even want to discuss what Jesus said..

I actually did discuss what Jesus said. And, you don't agree. And that's a choice all must make.

I have to say that I am surprised that you would think the apostles disobeyed Jesus.

 

[RichMan]

I believe in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Col. 2:9 says that in Jesus dwells the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Do you believe in the trinity. God the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, all one ?
Do you believe a person not baptized as you say is lost and hell bound?
Do you believe a person that does not speak in tongues is lost and Hell bound?
A simple yes or no will do.
If you avoid answering, I will take that as a yes.