Soul sleep is a false doctrine

[Gardenias]

Quite the opposite. The Greeks probably learned this from the Hebrews. And the term "immortal" does not apply to souls. Mortality and immortality are strictly about the human body. Hence "mortality rates".

But souls and spirits are imperishable, therefore we read about the OT saints in Sheol/Hades (which is in "the heart of the earth", or "the lower parts of the earth") after they died. Here is "The writing of Hezekiah king of Judah, when he had been sick, and was recovered of his sickness":
I said in the cutting off of my days, I shall go to the gates of [Sheol]: I am deprived of the residue of my years. (Isaiah 38:10 KJV) [Note: the KJV translators should not have substituted "the grave" for Sheol, which has led to a lot of confusion]
I said, “In the prime of my life I shall go to the gates of Sheol; I am deprived of the remainder of my years.” (Isaiah 38:10 NKJV)
אֲנִ֣י אָמַ֗רְתִּי בִּדְמִ֥י יָמַ֛י אֵלֵ֖כָה בְּשַׁעֲרֵ֣י שְׁאֹ֑ול פֻּקַּ֖דְתִּי יֶ֥תֶר שְׁנֹותָֽי

Strong's Concordance (H7585)
sheol: underworld (place to which people descend at death)
Original Word: שְׁאוֹל
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: sheol
Phonetic Spelling: (sheh-ole')
Definition: underworld (place to which people descend at death)

SO then what is being said is our SPIRIT goes back to God,our SOULS wait in either a place of rest or torment until judgment and resurrection because the body decays those are then placed into an incorruptible and immortal new body?

 

[ewq1938]

You’re using a KJV+ Strong’s numbers from eSword, so look at the word rest in Revelation 14:13. It is G373 and it means exactly what I said it means:

“repose which is a state of rest, sleep, or tranquility; to take ease or refresh” and does not mean patience.

That's a modern definition of repose. That is not what the Greek word means. I have already proven that.

IF it did mean to sleep, the souls of dead are shown as being awake and possible "sleeping" for a short time. How would that prove soul sleep? It wouldn't and since G373 does not mean to rest in sleeping, there is no evidence that any soul is sleeping like a human being sleeps.

Soul sleep doesn’t have to mean sleeping at all times or immediately after death. I imagine you think soul sleep is a coma-like state from which the soul can never awake from until God says so.

There is no example of a soul that is asleep in the bible.

 

[ewq1938]

That’s false. This isn’t time for rejecting objective definitions for Greek words when they put you between a rock and a hard place and when they debunk the thesis of your OP.

Once again, Revelation 6:11 uses G373 when talking about rest and it means exactly what it says.

G373- rest - repose which is a state of rest, sleep, or tranquility; to take ease or refresh.

Sleep is not a part of word's definition:

G373
ἀναπαύω
anapauō
an-ap-ow'-o
From G303 and G3973; (reflexively) to repose (literally or figuratively (be exempt), remain); by implication to refresh: - take ease, refresh, (give, take) rest.
Total KJV occurrences: 12

G373
ἀναπαύω
anapauō
Thayer Definition:
1) to cause or permit one to cease from any movement or labour in order to recover and collect his strength
2) to give rest, refresh, to give one’s self rest, take rest
3) to keep quiet, of calm and patient expectation
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G303 and G3973
Citing in TDNT: 1:350, 56

It is never one time translated as sleep because it doesn't have that meaning.

 

[ewq1938]

Before I comment further, which translation is that?

ERV.

Here's EMTV:

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, thus also God will bring with Him those who die in Jesus.
1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall by no means precede those who are dead.
1Th 4:16 Because the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[ewq1938]

Say it once, say it again, say it three times. Each time you say "“These saints under the altar of God are then told to be patient for a "little season.” you're changing the Word of God.

The word you're changing is rest in Revelation 6:11 to say patience. Rest and patience aren't the same thing.

Yes they are.

G373
ἀναπαύω
anapauō
Thayer Definition:
1) to cause or permit one to cease from any movement or labour in order to recover and collect his strength
2) to give rest, refresh, to give one’s self rest, take rest
3) to keep quiet, of calm and patient expectation
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G303 and G3973
Citing in TDNT: 1:350, 56

This clearly matches the context of the souls of the dead complaining and being upset that their death's have yet to be avenged. Telling them to anapauō for awhile is telling them to be quiet and wait patiently until it's the right time for vengeance. At no time are these souls going to fall asleep. Souls do not sleep and do not need sleep.

 

[ewq1938]

Gill:

and it was said unto them, that they should rest; or have rest; eternal rest from all their toil and labour, from all their sorrows and sufferings of every kind, which rest remains for the people of God, and into which these were now entered; or that they should cease from expostulating and inquiring after the above manner, and rest satisfied and contented, exercising the graces of faith, hope, and patience, believing, looking, and waiting:

 

[Runningman]

Yes they are.

G373
ἀναπαύω
anapauō
Thayer Definition:
1) to cause or permit one to cease from any movement or labour in order to recover and collect his strength
2) to give rest, refresh, to give one’s self rest, take rest
3) to keep quiet, of calm and patient expectation
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G303 and G3973
Citing in TDNT: 1:350, 56

This clearly matches the context of the souls of the dead complaining and being upset that their death's have yet to be avenged. Telling them to anapauō for awhile is telling them to be quiet and wait patiently until it's the right time for vengeance. At no time are these souls going to fall asleep. Souls do not sleep and do not need sleep.

No.

Strong's and the Greek word ἀναπαύω (G373) literally translate to repose. It means a state of rest, sleep, of tranquility. Feel free to look it up in literally any Greek and English dictionary. The facts are on my side.

Given this unchangeable fact, you're also changing the Word of God. The majority of Greek scholars and authoritative sources on the subject of translating words from Greek to English disagree with you and the Bible refutes you.

 

[Runningman]

ERV.

Here's EMTV:

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, thus also God will bring with Him those who die in Jesus.
1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall by no means precede those who are dead.
1Th 4:16 Because the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

The ERV is not a strict translation of the Bible into English. It's known as a dynamic equivalent translation. For the New Testament, the ERV uses the United Bible Societies' Greek New Testament (4th revised edition, 1993) and Nestle-Aland Novum Testament Graece (27th edition, 1993).

The KJV is a literal translation and it was translated from the Textus Receptus.

I already looked up which versions change the Word of God to mean patience instead of rest in Revelation 6:11 and Revelation 14:13 and there aren't many. You're searching far and wide for evidences to confirm your false doctrine.

The way we should approach the Bible is not by searching for evidences to confirm what we want it to say, but rather allowing the Bible to take the lead and find evidences that confirm what it says. Best of luck to you dear @ewq1938

 

[Runningman]

That's a modern definition of repose. That is not what the Greek word means. I have already proven that.

It's the only accepted definition of repose.

IF it did mean to sleep, the souls of dead are shown as being awake and possible "sleeping" for a short time. How would that prove soul sleep? It wouldn't and since G373 does not mean to rest in sleeping, there is no evidence that any soul is sleeping like a human being sleeps.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 is the most straight forward verse that proves soul sleep.

There is no example of a soul that is asleep in the bible.

That's false. 1 Thessalonians 4:14

 

[Absolutely]

Sleeping can mean two things. Literal sleep, or a figure of speech that means to be dead. In various verses, sleeping is being dead not literal sleeping. It is speaking of the human body, not the spirit or soul.

Christ explained that here:

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

The disciples misunderstood Christ when he said Lazarus is sleeping. The only way for the disciples to understand what he meant was by correcting their error. Don't make the same mistake the disciples made. Scripture is talking about death, not "sleeping". The dead are not "sleeping", they are dead. Their spirit and soul are in heaven or Hades depending on how they lived their lives and even there no one is asleep.


"Our friend Lazarus sleepeth" is the figure of speech.
"Lazarus is dead" is the literal and plain speech.

Even though you eloquently articulated that....and i agree.... The members here are stuck over definitions.

It has gotten bizarre what they are posting.

 

[Absolutely]

the op needs to read "soul sleep or oblivian in death vs the spirit going into eternal life or death via death of the body"

Or some such qualifier.

 

[Runningman]

Unfortunately, Bible discussions do often devolve into a back and forth about definitions of words - often to little or no avail. If we can't agree on what words mean then there is a communication barrier that effectually impedes the discussion. Being unable to communicate on universally-accepted and agreed upon words is a Bible discussion thread killer. Who wants to talk on and on, page after page, about what words mean, fiddling with definitions, and so forth instead of just accepting what the dictionaries say? Not me.

Feel free to reply or ping me when or if anyone wants to seriously discuss the Biblically sound doctrine of souls that sleep and/or take rest according to 1 Thess. 4:14, Rev. 6:11, and Rev. 14:13. And there's many more verses that supplement these, too, that maybe we can discuss.

 

[Absolutely]

Unfortunately, Bible discussions do often devolve into a back and forth about definitions of words - often to little or no avail. If we can't agree on what words mean then there is a communication barrier that effectually impedes the discussion. Being unable to communicate on universally-accepted and agreed upon words is a Bible discussion thread killer. Who wants to talk on and on, page after page, about what words mean, fiddling with definitions, and so forth instead of just accepting what the dictionaries say? Not me.

Feel free to reply or ping me when or if anyone wants to seriously discuss the Biblically sound doctrine of souls that sleep and/or take rest according to 1 Thess. 4:14, Rev. 6:11, and Rev. 14:13. And there's many more verses that supplement these, too, that maybe we can discuss.

Soul sleep as opposed to what?
Entering heaven or hades at death?

 

[TMS]

You can present the truth over and over again but if you don't have ears to hear it is useless.

“The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being” (Genesis 2:7).

Dust + Gods breath = a living being

The body turns to dust again, and the spirit goes back to God, who gave it. The spirit of every person who dies—whether saved or unsaved—returns to God at death.

“Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7).

“The body without the spirit is dead” (James 2:26).
“The spirit of God is in my nostrils” (Job 27:3 KJV).

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die” (Ezekiel 18:20 KJV).
“Every living soul died in the sea” (Revelation 16:3 KJV).

According to God’s Word, souls do die! We are souls, and souls die. Man is mortal (Job 4:17).
Only God is immortal (1 Timothy 6:15, 16). The concept of an undying, immortal soul is not found in the Bible, which teaches that souls are subject to death.

People do not go to heaven or to hell at death. They don’t go anywhere—but they wait in their graves for the resurrection.
“All who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth” (John 5:28, 29).
“David … is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. … For David did not ascend into the heavens” (Acts 2:29, 34).
“If I wait, the grave is mine house” (Job 17:13 KJV).

“The living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun. … There is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10).
“The dead do not praise the Lord” (Psalm 115:17).

The dead cannot contact the living, nor do they know what the living are doing. They are dead. Their thoughts have perished (Psalm 146:4 KJV).
“Man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep. … His sons come to honor, and he does not know it; they are brought low, and he does not perceive it” (Job 14:12, 21).
“Nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun” (Ecclesiastes 9:6).

“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work” (Revelation 22:12).
“The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout. … And the dead in Christ will rise. … And thus we shall always be with the Lord” (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).
“We shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye … and the dead will be raised incorruptible. … For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Corinthians 15:51–53).

The righteous will be rewarded at the second coming. They will be raised, given immortal bodies, and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. There would be no purpose in a resurrection if people were taken to heaven at death.

the devils first lie.....
“The serpent said to the woman, ‘You will not surely die’ ” (Genesis 3:4).

“For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles” (Revelation 16:14, KJV).
“False christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect” (Matthew 24:24).

Devils work incredibly convincing miracles (Revelation 13:13, 14). Satan will appear as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14) and, even more shocking, as Christ Himself (Matthew 24:23, 24). The universal feeling will be that Christ and His angels are leading out in a fantastic worldwide revival. The entire emphasis will seem so spiritual and be so supernatural that only God’s elect will not be deceived.

 

[ewq1938]

That's false. 1 Thessalonians 4:14

There is nothing about a soul being asleep in that verse. Revelation 6 proves the souls of the dead are awake. Soul sleep literally has no biblical support.

 

[ewq1938]

Given this unchangeable fact, you're also changing the Word of God.

I haven't but you have. It says rest, but you change it to sleep. Rest is the correct translation. The souls of the dead are fully awake proving soul sleep is false AND they are told to rest because they are so upset and wanting vengeance. It is a rest from that that they will take part in.

 

[ewq1938]

The ERV is not a strict translation of the Bible into English. It's known as a dynamic equivalent translation.

It is an excellent translation because it even translates the figure OS speech so no one can be confused at what is being said. For a dead person to be "asleep" means they are dead. It has nothing to do with sleep that living humans need.

 

[Runningman]

I haven't but you have. It says rest, but you change it to sleep. Rest is the correct translation. The souls of the dead are fully awake proving soul sleep is false AND they are told to rest because they are so upset and wanting vengeance. It is a rest from that that they will take part in.

I’ve maintained that the definition of rest in Revelation 6:11 and Revelation 14:13 means repose this entire discussion. Check your sources because a repose does include sleep. Your accusation is absurd.

 

[ewq1938]

I’ve maintained that the definition of rest in Revelation 6:11 and Revelation 14:13 means repose this entire discussion. Check your sources because a repose does include sleep.

I have found a definition from an older dictionary that did not add "sleep" to the definition of repose and repose was used by Strong only but not by Thayer. It's highly likely Strong is thinking of repose as rest but not as sleeping. No dictionary says the Greek word means to sleep, nor did the translators ever translate that word to "sleep" That's because they Greek word does not mean to rest in sleep. It's resting while awake just like the souls of the dead in Revelation 6. Again, not one verse in the bible says a soul is sleeping. It says the dead are sleeping but that means to be dead not to literally be sleeping.

 

[Nehemiah6]

For a dead person to be "asleep" means they are dead.

This is elementary and should not even be under discussion.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2837: κοιμάω (koimao)

κοιμάω, κοίμω: passive, present κοιμάομαι. κοιμωμαι; perfect κεκοίμημαι (cf. Winer's Grammar, 274 (257)); 1 aorist ἐκοιμήθην; 1 future κοιμηθήσομαι; (akin to κεῖμαι; Curtius, § 45); to cause to sleep, put to sleep (Homer, et al.); metaphorically, to still, calm, quiet, (Homer, Aeschylus, Plato); passive to sleep, fall asleep: properly, Matthew 28:13; Luke 22:45; John 11:12; Acts 12:6; the Sept. for שָׁכַב. metaphorically, and euphemistically equivalent to to die (cf. English to fall asleep): John 11:11; Acts 7:60; Acts 13:36; 1 Corinthians 7:39; 1 Corinthians 11:30; 1 Corinthians 15:6, 51 (cf. Winers Grammar, 555 (517); Buttmann, 121 (106) note); 2 Peter 3:4; οἱ κοιμώμενοι, κεκοιμημένοι, κοιμηθέντες, equivalent to the dead: Matthew 27:52; 1 Corinthians 15:20; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; with ἐν Χριστῷ added (see ἐν, I. 6 b., p. 211b), 1 Corinthians 15:18; in the same sense Isaiah 14:8; Isaiah 43:17; 1 Kings 11:43; 2 Macc. 12:45; Homer, Iliad 11, 241; Sophocles Electr. 509.