I have laid the foundation and ANOTHER BUILDETH THEREON

[kleronomos]

I would like to know what the thoughts are of building and growing upon the words of God.

1 Peter 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, all evil speakings, 2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. 4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.


It's been two thousand years since those words were written. How much BUILDING have we done? When we find someone building upon the foundation laid by Christ do we seek to help with that build or do we seek only to tear down?

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.


Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:


10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

I have a belief the the Church is in real trouble. If it were 2000 years ago and 'the church' were the chosen people that we would not recognize Christ any more than they did as we have become just like them when it comes to the words of GOD, as we are so busy tearing down the WORDS WRITTEN (their exact meaning, punctuation, etc.) instead of building upon the SPIRITUAL meanings/stories of the words written as in WHAT are they SHOWING US. What is happening and why.

This is probably too much to fast but just in case we don't have much time and since I am going for the gold myself just thought I would see if there were others who are of a solid faith and so have an open ear to hearing what God is showing us in these latter days.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Hi kleronomos.

I believe there are two extremes that have to be avoided: 1) Obsession with technical minutiae of the text itself; and, 2) Playing fast and loose with the text and making up your own gospel.

The foundation has been laid: "So then, you are no longer strangers and aliens, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone. . ."—Ephesians 2:19-20

My philosophy is to be led by the Spirit while remaining faithful to God's word. We have a wealth of information available for us to understand God's word better than ever. I believe it's a Christian's duty to learn and understand all they can but without becoming an egghead.

By that I just mean someone who can't relate to their fellow human beings nor they to him. For some people learning becomes an end in itself. This is very un-Christian in my opinion.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Context is really important, but I wouldn't put characterize word study as tearing the words down.

There are people that try to mar the truth by intentional misinterpretation or by changing the way a word is used- so word study is pretty important too.

 

[Mofastus]

1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

1 Corinthians 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

1 Corinthians 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

1 Corinthians 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

1Corinthians 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

1Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

1 Corinthians 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

1 Corinthians 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

1 Corinthians 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Acts 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I would like to know what the thoughts are of building and growing upon the words of God.

1 Peter 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, all evil speakings, 2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. 4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.


It's been two thousand years since those words were written. How much BUILDING have we done? When we find someone building upon the foundation laid by Christ do we seek to help with that build or do we seek only to tear down?

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.


Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:


10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

I have a belief the the Church is in real trouble. If it were 2000 years ago and 'the church' were the chosen people that we would not recognize Christ any more than they did as we have become just like them when it comes to the words of GOD, as we are so busy tearing down the WORDS WRITTEN (their exact meaning, punctuation, etc.) instead of building upon the SPIRITUAL meanings/stories of the words written as in WHAT are they SHOWING US. What is happening and why.

This is probably too much to fast but just in case we don't have much time and since I am going for the gold myself just thought I would see if there were others who are of a solid faith and so have an open ear to hearing what God is showing us in these latter days.

“Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:18-23‬ ‭

 

[Blain]

The word of God is like an onion or the earths crust it has many layers which is why is should be seen as somethingg to dig deeper into not something to build upon like a building. Even though it has been over two thousand years since the bible was fully written it still holds many secrets that require deeper digging and understanding. Many denom inations were created based on a certain series of scripture but not the whole word they built it up from that point into what you see these days and as you can see there are hundreds of denominations dividing the church

Instead of digging deeper on the whole many base their beliefs even some who have a main beliefs such as perfection and being sinless or those who are very spiritual yet have no hunger for the word have a few main verses they like to speak on and without even realizing it have founded their entire belief system on those verses not the whole word of God.

I think we all tend to do this without meaning to we each have a certain belief system and when we read scripture we see through the lenses of our belief system but this clouds our ability to truly dig deeper and strike oil, it certainly doesn't help when we don't know his voice we just think we do. He would speak to us if we allowed it but because we have hardened our hearts and built our system on certain beliefs we remain deaf to him and blind to the truth he wants to show us.

Perhaps I have gone a bit off topic but I just wanted to speak my thoughts on the matter and ponder it as well, I need to like everyone else search my heart and see where I may have done this without realizing it as should any student of the word

 

[kleronomos]

Hi kleronomos.

I believe there are two extremes that have to be avoided: 1) Obsession with technical minutiae of the text itself; and, 2) Playing fast and loose with the text and making up your own gospel.

The foundation has been laid: "So then, you are no longer strangers and aliens, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone. . ."—Ephesians 2:19-20

My philosophy is to be led by the Spirit while remaining faithful to God's word. We have a wealth of information available for us to understand God's word better than ever. I believe it's a Christian's duty to learn and understand all they can but without becoming an egghead.

By that I just mean someone who can't relate to their fellow human beings nor they to him. For some people learning becomes an end in itself. This is very un-Christian in my opinion.

Hello,

I believe you are correct. We have Christians who are experts at tearing down, finding anything wrong with another's beliefs yet ask those same people to simply lay out Gods Plan and it gets quiet. Aren't we told that God doesn't give revelations to the wise? If that is indeed truth then those who may be receiving them are CUT short because they can't communicate them because they are so busy defending against the onslaught of the 'explain this'. I am getting a little worried that we will miss some very important revelations because of OUR approach to the 'ewes'. Jesus was pretty specific with Peter about it.

How do we build upon the foundation of Christ? How do we change the conversation to one of benefit and unity? WHAT IF Christ doesn't return until we COME TOGETHER AS ONE? OMG.

Are we moving forward and building and I am just not seeing it? Please, if you know of some new buildings that have gone up that Scripture backs up share it with me. I am all ears.

How do we bring together those who believe there can be NO change whatsoever from what was first given with those who believe 'books will be opened' in the very end? We can't build and grow and stay the exact same, there has to be change. When new things that come to light we have the most simple way of checking out if they are true or not as we compare with what is written.

Do you have any ideas or know of anyone who does? Just searching and seeking and getting ready for the Spirit to be poured out and I want to make sure I am open to it so God doesn't find someone else who is

 

[kleronomos]

Perhaps I have gone a bit off topic but I just wanted to speak my thoughts on the matter and ponder it as well, I need to like everyone else search my heart and see where I may have done this without realizing it as should any student of the word

Hello,

Never worry about that when in a thread I started. I think I start them so I don't have to worry as God words are not linear to me., they are interwoven and one thought brings about another that is when I believe the Holy Spirit is leading to a deeper truth. True, some may perceive as 'off topic' but it came from somewhere and they should be investigated . Drives me nuts when I have had a random AWESOME thought and never got it back because I was worried about it not being the right place...


Though I do agree with you we are to dig deeper to find the hidden treasures, for me, it is when we bring those out and put them with truths we already possess that 'building' is done. And it does change and it is like a building to me we move from babes to the mature soldier ready to serve God in ways that ewes can't. We possess what they do PLUS all that has been added to it and it is different, though remaining the same. ONLY GOD can do that...

Do you think the church today has become like the synagogue back when Jesus walk among us in which there was NO DEVIATION from what was known ALLOW? What they knew was the only way and Christ showed them that just wasn't true. What would be the reason of sending us the Holy Spirit if it were not to lead us to deeper truths? Are the words of God not being 'wrought(ing?) in us' today? Do you think with all the accelerated speeds of learning and referencing and the tools at our disposal the the words of God would naturally be brining out things not known before? (not even needed till now since they weren't experiencing the end times?)

I wonder
Romans 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation 21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand. 22 For which cause also I have been much hindered from coming to you.

if there is any hope for us here in these forums with everyone already having been spoken to and having heard....


Thank you for sharing your thoughts here

 

[ResidentAlien]

Hello,

I believe you are correct. We have Christians who are experts at tearing down, finding anything wrong with another's beliefs yet ask those same people to simply lay out Gods Plan and it gets quiet. Aren't we told that God doesn't give revelations to the wise? If that is indeed truth then those who may be receiving them are CUT short because they can't communicate them because they are so busy defending against the onslaught of the 'explain this'. I am getting a little worried that we will miss some very important revelations because of OUR approach to the 'ewes'. Jesus was pretty specific with Peter about it.

How do we build upon the foundation of Christ? How do we change the conversation to one of benefit and unity? WHAT IF Christ doesn't return until we COME TOGETHER AS ONE? OMG.

Are we moving forward and building and I am just not seeing it? Please, if you know of some new buildings that have gone up that Scripture backs up share it with me. I am all ears.

How do we bring together those who believe there can be NO change whatsoever from what was first given with those who believe 'books will be opened' in the very end? We can't build and grow and stay the exact same, there has to be change. When new things that come to light we have the most simple way of checking out if they are true or not as we compare with what is written.

Do you have any ideas or know of anyone who does? Just searching and seeking and getting ready for the Spirit to be poured out and I want to make sure I am open to it so God doesn't find someone else who is

We don't have to build new buildings; that's part of the problem today. You have the greater part of the "Christian" church changing and adapting to the world. This isn't helping the church but only making it more worldly. God's people aren't called to adapt to the world but to stand out from the world and be different. Sure, things change that effect everyone, but the thing that distinguishes the body of Christ from the world is how we respond to these changes. Do we go right along like the rest of the world, or do we maintain our separateness regardless of cultural changes? We should be recognized as different.

I don't know if we have that much control over when we may all come together as one. I think it's just up to God's timing. I do know the New Testament teaches us to be of the same mind and speak the same things. I think one issue people may have around the idea of us all reaching a unity in the faith is thinking that every person who claims to be born again actually is. If we're waiting for every single one of us—including the tares—to reach a unity I'm afraid we'll be in for a very long wait. God knows who are His and knows when His true followers have reached the proper state of unity.

I don't know if that helps. I sense you're frustrated by a lot of things and I don't claim to have all the answers. Keep looking!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The word of God is like an onion or the earths crust it has many layers which is why is should be seen as somethingg to dig deeper into not something to build upon like a building. Even though it has been over two thousand years since the bible was fully written it still holds many secrets that require deeper digging and understanding. Many denom inations were created based on a certain series of scripture but not the whole word they built it up from that point into what you see these days and as you can see there are hundreds of denominations dividing the church

Instead of digging deeper on the whole many base their beliefs even some who have a main beliefs such as perfection and being sinless or those who are very spiritual yet have no hunger for the word have a few main verses they like to speak on and without even realizing it have founded their entire belief system on those verses not the whole word of God.

I think we all tend to do this without meaning to we each have a certain belief system and when we read scripture we see through the lenses of our belief system but this clouds our ability to truly dig deeper and strike oil, it certainly doesn't help when we don't know his voice we just think we do. He would speak to us if we allowed it but because we have hardened our hearts and built our system on certain beliefs we remain deaf to him and blind to the truth he wants to show us.

Perhaps I have gone a bit off topic but I just wanted to speak my thoughts on the matter and ponder it as well, I need to like everyone else search my heart and see where I may have done this without realizing it as should any student of the word

Amen . if we start believing the gospel that’s written well Be saved

 

[kleronomos]

We don't have to build new buildings; that's part of the problem today. You have the greater part of the "Christian" church changing and adapting to the world. This isn't helping the church but only making it more worldly. God's people aren't called to adapt to the world but to stand out from the world and be different. Sure, things change that effect everyone, but the thing that distinguishes the body of Christ from the world is how we respond to these changes. Do we go right along like the rest of the world, or do we maintain our separateness regardless of cultural changes? We should be recognized as different.

I don't know if we have that much control over when we may all come together as one. I think it's just up to God's timing. I do know the New Testament teaches us to be of the same mind and speak the same things. I think one issue people may have around the idea of us all reaching a unity in the faith is thinking that every person who claims to be born again actually is. If we're waiting for every single one of us—including the tares—to reach a unity I'm afraid we'll be in for a very long wait. God knows who are His and knows when His true followers have reached the proper state of unity.

I don't know if that helps. I sense you're frustrated by a lot of things and I don't claim to have all the answers. Keep looking!

Hello Again,

You make a very good point. So I ask you, just because many are doing it incorrectly should those who would BY Scripture AND proved by Scripture, and not the ways of the world NOT do it? We know there is but a remnant who have Gods Truth which is verified by 'the falling away' where the whole world worships after him leaving only a remnant with the armor to withstand and endure to the end. When frustrated I go back to that saying that the only thing evil needs to succeed is for the good to quit doing anything or something to that effect. Gods will is that all come to repentance. That is the goal. I know the mystery of iniquity works really hard and has better workers and maybe that is why those of us who LOVE HIS WORDS need to keep doing what is right even when it seems everyone around us is telling us not too. With thanks to you again

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hello Again,

You make a very good point. So I ask you, just because many are doing it incorrectly should those who would BY Scripture AND proved by Scripture, and not the ways of the world NOT do it? We know there is but a remnant who have Gods Truth which is verified by 'the falling away' where the whole world worships after him leaving only a remnant with the armor to withstand and endure to the end. When frustrated I go back to that saying that the only thing evil needs to succeed is for the good to quit doing anything or something to that effect. Gods will is that all come to repentance. That is the goal. I know the mystery of iniquity works really hard and has better workers and maybe that is why those of us who LOVE HIS WORDS need to keep doing what is right even when it seems everyone around us is telling us not too. With thanks to you again

there’s also a certain way of understanding his words often literal interpretation would drive us away like these disciples

“Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

….From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:54-56, 59-60, 66‬ ‭KJV‬

there’s a certain truth and spirit a lesson in his words but it’s not always literal

“And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭9:47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭9:45-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christians around the globe would be limbless by now if we took some things literal. There’s a spirit conveyed through believing the gospel a righteousness of heart and mind that leads us along in truth but often it’s not the letter but spirit we want

 

[Blik]

It's been two thousand years since those words were written. How much BUILDING have we done? When we find someone building upon the foundation laid by Christ do we seek to help with that build or do we seek only to tear down? .

If we study the early Christian Fathers of the first 300 years of the church the church followed Christ. There were heretics and cults that sprung up, but they weren't fought, they were simply given the truth. In 313 the Emperor Constantine decided he would "help" the church by giving it worldly ways. He made it a fight with the Jews, he Christianized pagan holidays, he took authority from men taught by the apostles and gave it to a group of men.

Now, we study the church as a church before Constantine and a church after Constantine. That study needs to be done by applying what is of Christ and what is of Constantine. They are different.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If we study the early Christian Fathers of the first 300 years of the church the church followed Christ. There were heretics and cults that sprung up, but they weren't fought, they were simply given the truth. In 313 the Emperor Constantine decided he would "help" the church by giving it worldly ways. He made it a fight with the Jews, he Christianized pagan holidays, he took authority from men taught by the apostles and gave it to a group of men.

Now, we study the church as a church before Constantine and a church after Constantine. That study needs to be done by applying what is of Christ and what is of Constantine. They are different.

and even now what came from Constantine is further distorted and changed into other denominations

 

[kleronomos]

there’s also a certain way of understanding his words often literal interpretation would drive us away like these disciples

“Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

….From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:54-56, 59-60, 66‬ ‭KJV‬

there’s a certain truth and spirit a lesson in his words but it’s not always literal

“And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭9:47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭9:45-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christians around the globe would be limbless by now if we took some things literal. There’s a spirit conveyed through believing the gospel a righteousness of heart and mind that leads us along in truth but often it’s not the letter but spirit we want

No but it is literally spiritual. Do you think if the words of God were taught as they should be we would run into these problems? I personally don't. I think we would be able to speak with each other 1000 times better because God would have set our thinking correct from the get go. I am so glad I took the time to just do it. I still remember going and getting my 'highlighters' and starting at page one my only goal to read and enjoy every word. No pressure, no test, no nothing but letting God 'speak' to me. The following time was simply amazing. I didn't believe I had kept anything in my mind from the first but I was wrong. I've done it a few more times since then and am about to start again this new year (my one resolution) and can't wait to see what will be revealed....


It is almost unbelievable, when the understanding comes, how truly simple it is. God Bless

 

[kleronomos]

If we study the early Christian Fathers of the first 300 years of the church the church followed Christ. There were heretics and cults that sprung up, but they weren't fought, they were simply given the truth. In 313 the Emperor Constantine decided he would "help" the church by giving it worldly ways. He made it a fight with the Jews, he Christianized pagan holidays, he took authority from men taught by the apostles and gave it to a group of men.

Now, we study the church as a church before Constantine and a church after Constantine. That study needs to be done by applying what is of Christ and what is of Constantine. They are different.

First, I agree the 'true' churches have always tried to follow Christ but I am going to have to disagree with you on the 300 years part because of the letters written to the 7 churches. These are words we can trust to reveal truth and that TRUTH didn't look so good. Christ was even looking to spew out of His mouth. What was this a mere 60 or so years later? What do we know about what the dark ages did to what they 'knew or didn't know'. The ONLY thing I believe we can trust are the words of God. They come before everything else. I believe that what OTHER MEN said or did also come second to the words we find before us today. WE HAVE the leading of the Holy Spirit to lead us to HIS truth. Certainly we are given prophets and teachers and preachers and all the rest but WE, each one of us must PROVE those words through the words written, not through what man says is written. The heart and mind know when a truth is presented when we are being led by the Spirit, though the stubborn flesh may fight against it.

One of the hardest things we ever do is to let go of what ever lies we have come to believe as truth. We go kicking screaming punching and yelling till we fall to our knees in repentance and prayer with strong tears PLEASE GOD HELP ME TO UNDERSTAND of NOT MY WILL but yours NO MATTER THE COST, no matter the fall, no matter the what or the HOW until He raises us up and opens our eyes and ears and we again break down in pure THANKFULNESS for the lesson we have just been taught. Was one of (a few) of my personal battles

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

op: Paul's "...I have laid The Foundation, and another buildeth thereupon..."?

I would like to know what the thoughts are of building and growing upon The Words of God.

Precious kleronomos, thanks for initiating a Great Study! More Specifically,
we should say: "building and growing In God's Amazing GRACE, According To
God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided" (instead of Confusion; rule #2 of
Bible "study" Rules), as follows, with This included:

Jesus Christ Himself Being the Chief Cornerstone

Thanks Precious ResidentAlien, Very "Key" Words In This Great Study:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world”
(Matthew 25:34)

God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21!)

God's Building: Christ, on earth, told Peter and the eleven apostles:

Mat_16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock
I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Note: this wall of God's Building is the Nation Of ISRAEL, Jesus Christ Being
The ROCK (Foundation?)! Correct? Or "Cornerstone"?

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)

God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9!)

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9!)

Now note about God's Building: Christ, from heaven, inspired
Paul to teach us, The Body Of CHRIST:

"...I have laid The Foundation..." wait! What is this??? Was not "The Rock"
already laid in Mat_16:18??? What in the world "is Paul laying HERE"??? hint:

Jesus Christ Himself Being the Chief Cornerstone! Would not this Mean That
"There is Now A Second wall (of four?) Added To God's Building," That of "The
ONE NEW man" (Eph 2:15)? This does Make Perfect Sense in the light of ALL:

The Differences That Holy Scripture Teaches in God's TWO Different Programs!
Amen?

Much More, Rightly Divided, is here: God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels
and here: Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!
====================================================
Conclusion: our "growth by good works as co-labourers With God (1Co 3:9),
Under HIS Amazing GRACE" would then be According To:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)

Which God Has Given Directly TO us, Correct? (And Bringing Much LESS
Confusion in today's "Very WEAK and Severely Divided assembly," Amen?)

Please be Richly Encouraged In Christ, And HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!
(2 Timothy 2:15)

 

[Blik]

First, I agree the 'true' churches have always tried to follow Christ but I am going to have to disagree with you on the 300 years part because of the letters written to the 7 churches.

God is truth and we can verify the truth of the Lord when we look at the world God created. In this world of truth there was a change in the church so extreme we are told of the apostle age as a separate age to study. I do not think that the descriptions of what is wrong in our churches told of by John makes it not the truth that the church changed when Constantine changed it.

 

[kleronomos]

Mat_16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock
I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Note: this wall of God's Building is the Nation Of ISRAEL, Jesus Christ Being
The ROCK (Foundation?)! Correct? Or "Cornerstone"?

"...I have laid The Foundation..." wait! What is this??? Was not "The Rock"
already laid in Mat_16:18??? What in the world "is Paul laying HERE"??? hint:

The ROCK - the premise
Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.


I am looking for the 'hint' and the second foundation but I am not seeing it (but I have not yet prayed and that could be the problem) but I believe there is only one foundation and that is Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[kleronomos]

The ROCK - the premise
Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.


I am looking for the 'hint' and the second foundation but I am not seeing it (but I have not yet prayed and that could be the problem) but I believe there is only one foundation and that is Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

If we would quit dividing the body of Christ, think how much confusion would go away.