Saved by Water
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Here is an entire thread in which everyone had the opportunity...
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/understanding-the-trinity-as-a-doctrine.201406/
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/understanding-the-trinity-as-a-doctrine.201406/
No, but you do need scripture to ascertain the purpose of water baptism. Fortunately Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3 directly state that purpose. (no matter how much anyone detests that purpose)
"John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." - Mark 1:4 KJV
"And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" - Luke 3:3 KJV
If the bible states that baptism is for the remission of sins (which it does), and someone else says baptism is just an outward show, we both know we are supposed to trust the biblical statement, not the statement of man.
Love in Jesus to all who hear,
Kelby
"John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." - Mark 1:4 KJV
"And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" - Luke 3:3 KJV
If the bible states that baptism is for the remission of sins (which it does), and someone else says baptism is just an outward show, we both know we are supposed to trust the biblical statement, not the statement of man.
Love in Jesus to all who hear,
Kelby
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See article on Acts 22:16 - https://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2015/03/acts-2216-baptism-essential-for.html
In Matthew 3:11, we read - "I baptize you with water for repentance.. (NASB) Now was this baptism for "in order to obtain" repentance? (which makes no sense at all) or was this baptism for "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance? Obviously the latter. So water baptism does not obtain repentance or the remission of sins, but is done "in regards to/on the basis of" remission of sins received upon repentance. It's the same in Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3. John the Baptist preached a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. This baptism was for "in regards to/on the basis of" remission of sins received upon repentance.
Luke 24:47 - and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life." This was prior to receiving water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47)
Luke 24:47 - and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life." This was prior to receiving water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47)
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Ridiculous. They HAVE been, but you keep your eyes closed so as to not see them.
For example, ALL the verses that show the Father speaking TO the Son and Gen 1:26 where God says "let US...".
You have no excuse for your "oneness" theory.
None of these verses say that. Every verse that mentions that baptism saves is referring to the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It's all been explained to you, but your eyes are closed to truth.
Yes, and a symbol. No symbol saves. Only Jesus saves. He saves by giving the gift of etenal life (John 5:24 and 10:28). And God the Father gives the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13,14).
Don't conflate verses. It is a public acknowledgement of the FACT that the one being baptized identifies with Christ.
Salvation is br grace through faith. Eph 2:8. Period.
Paul's answer to the jailer refutes your ideas.
No, it is not. It is a figure of speech that relates to future eternal blessings/reward. Those believers who don't confess Jesus before men will not be rewarded in heaven.
But that's another doctrine and story. You don't want the truth regarding baptism and salvation, so how can you accept the truth about eternal rewards?
For example, ALL the verses that show the Father speaking TO the Son and Gen 1:26 where God says "let US...".
You have no excuse for your "oneness" theory.
None of these verses say that. Every verse that mentions that baptism saves is referring to the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It's all been explained to you, but your eyes are closed to truth.
Yes, and a symbol. No symbol saves. Only Jesus saves. He saves by giving the gift of etenal life (John 5:24 and 10:28). And God the Father gives the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13,14).
Don't conflate verses. It is a public acknowledgement of the FACT that the one being baptized identifies with Christ.
Salvation is br grace through faith. Eph 2:8. Period.
Paul's answer to the jailer refutes your ideas.
No, it is not. It is a figure of speech that relates to future eternal blessings/reward. Those believers who don't confess Jesus before men will not be rewarded in heaven.
But that's another doctrine and story. You don't want the truth regarding baptism and salvation, so how can you accept the truth about eternal rewards?
Please stop making up lies. I HAVE dealt with that verse and I've explained it to you multiple times.
That is the FACT, which you aren't interested it.
There were Gentiles in that crowd, no doubt.
If Acts 2:38 applies to the entire human race, Paul's answer to the jailer couldn't possibly be accurate or true. Nonsense.
Because Acts 2:38 didn't apply to them. They heard the gospel from Peter, believed it.
Acts 11-
13 He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter.
14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
v.13 is Peter's narrative of what Cornelius told him. v.14 is the result of believing the message that Peter brought to them. v.16 shows CLEARLY the difference between water and the Holy Spirit. They are DIFFERENT baptisms.
And v.17 clearly shows HOW they received the Holy Spirit; "believed in the Lord Jesus Christ". This is the exact same message Paul answered the jailer. NO WATER INVOLVED. But your eyes remain closed to truth.
And that refutes your whole theory.
That is the FACT, which you aren't interested it.
There were Gentiles in that crowd, no doubt.
If Acts 2:38 applies to the entire human race, Paul's answer to the jailer couldn't possibly be accurate or true. Nonsense.
Because Acts 2:38 didn't apply to them. They heard the gospel from Peter, believed it.
Acts 11-
13 He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter.
14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
v.13 is Peter's narrative of what Cornelius told him. v.14 is the result of believing the message that Peter brought to them. v.16 shows CLEARLY the difference between water and the Holy Spirit. They are DIFFERENT baptisms.
And v.17 clearly shows HOW they received the Holy Spirit; "believed in the Lord Jesus Christ". This is the exact same message Paul answered the jailer. NO WATER INVOLVED. But your eyes remain closed to truth.
And that refutes your whole theory.
FreeGrace2 said:
You are totally misreading the verse. It does NOT say the symbol saves us. It says water baptism is a symbol of the baptism that DOES save us.
Correct. Nope, it doesn't.
But your eyes are closed to the truth.
You are totally misreading the verse. It does NOT say the symbol saves us. It says water baptism is a symbol of the baptism that DOES save us.
Correct. Nope, it doesn't.
But your eyes are closed to the truth.
SophieT said:
Oneness does not want to believe
They believe very strongly in false doctrine. All religions do that.
ps: Christianity is not a religion.
Oneness does not want to believe
They believe very strongly in false doctrine. All religions do that.
ps: Christianity is not a religion.
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Rejection is to refuse what scripture actually states occurs in obedience to God's command to be water baptized. Without acceptance of the core principle that God chose to establish water baptism as the means for remitting a believer's personal sin in association with Jesus' sacrifice it is impossible to understand other scriptures relevant to a topic.