Jesus' Command in Matthew 28:19

[justbyfaith]

Wansvic said:
Anyone who wishes to understand what Jesus meant in Matthew 28:19 need only to look up each detailed water baptism recorded

The other poster believes that water baptism is required for salvation. He is fixated on water baptism. He reads 1 Peter 3:21 as "it is the symbol that saves". His very words!!

The real focus should be on to whom the Great Commission was given. It seems most evangelicals today assume the GC is for every believer, but without thinking this through. If it is for every believer, then EVERY believer must become a missionary and travel throughout the world, because that is the command that Jesus gave.

Rather, the GC was Jesus' "marching orders" for the 11 disciples (apostles) for the purpose of establishing local churches through the known world. The command was NOT directed to all believers, just the 11.

And later, Paul was chosen as well. The key point is that the GC was given face to face by Jesus to 12 men. And they all obeyed the command that Jesus gave them.

So, if the GC wasn't for all believers, then what is our responsibility?

Col 4:6 - Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

1 Peter 3:15 - But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

Every believer must be prepared to give a solid biblical answer for everyone who asks.

This means if believers are living a Spirit-filled life, one that is supernatural, people will be drawn to you with questions.

So, hopefully, all believers are being asked about the hope (confidence) they have.

The Great Commission is indeed given to all of us.

The original 11 did not fulfill the Great Commission. It was given to the church.

 

[justbyfaith]

of course that would be impossible since God says let US make man in our image

As one who has been baptized in Jesus' Name, I believe that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are in fact distinct from one another and that therefore there is no problem in my theology with God referring to Himself as "Us" or "We".

 

[justbyfaith]

kindly show the scripture that will verify what you say here

Compare Matthew 28:18 with Acts 2:38.

If Peter was not being disobedient, the "name" (Matthew 28:19) of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is "Jesus Christ."

 

[justbyfaith]

Compare Matthew 28:18 with Acts 2:38.

Sorry, Matthew 28:19.

 

[infinitekhanol]

Consider what Isaiah reveals about the Father, Son and Holy Ghost:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isa 9:6

The contention is not whether Jesus is God or not. The scripture is crystal clear on that. Jesus is God the Son. However, we must have a good grasp of the Trinity to know that what you are contending about the NAME Jesus is not what it is. We must be able to differentiate his meaning when he says, I and my Father are one; when you see me you have seen the Father and Him being the fulness of God bodily. And then when he says, my Father is greater than me.

 

[infinitekhanol]

can you point to a single person baptized in “ the name “ of the father or Holy Ghost ? Father , son and Holy Ghost aren’t names they are three aspects pointed out of Jesus Christ which is the name of the one God. His name is Jesus his name isn’t father son and Holy Ghost that’s a description of “the three “ who are one

but the name of the father son and Holy Ghost is Jesus !!

that’s why you won’t find a record of anyone getting baptized “ in the name of the father son and Holy Ghost “ unless they are baptized in the name of the lord Jesus that’s his name

First, Acts of the Apostles do not show all baptisms administered by all the Apostles, so it would be wrong to say that all baptisms were administered in the name of Jesus. Acts of the Apostles give records of baptisms by some of the Apostles.

Secondly, we must have a good grasp of the Trinity to have a clear understanding of when Jesus says, I and my Father are one and him being the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and then, when he says, my Father is greater than me. This understanding we need to know that Jesus is not a singular name for God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost.

 

[KelbyofGod]

as I have already stated, there is but one aspect to salvation and that is the shed blood of Christ on the cross

The problem with that statement is that it is worded inaccurately. If you had said "there is but one thing that atones for our sins, and that is the shed blood of Christ on the cross" I would have agreed.

I think I have always told you that there are 2 major aspects (or pieces) we need for salvation. 1. Remission of sins (which is accomplished through baptism in Jesus' name) and 2. Receiving the Holy Ghost (which comes with speaking in tongues). Having one part but not the other is insufficient.

And that's something people have a REALLY hard time understanding because their filter does not believe it possible for a person to have remission of sins without at the same moment receiving the Holy Ghost.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[SophieT]

The problem with that statement is that it is worded inaccurately. If you had said "there is but one thing that atones for our sins, and that is the shed blood of Christ on the cross" I would have agreed.

I think I have always told you that there are 2 major aspects (or pieces) we need for salvation. 1. Remission of sins (which is accomplished through baptism in Jesus' name) and 2. Receiving the Holy Ghost (which comes with speaking in tongues). Having one part but not the other is insufficient.

And that's something people have a REALLY hard time understanding because their filter does not believe it possible for a person to have remission of sins without at the same moment receiving the Holy Ghost.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

you know most people would get a headache doing the damage control you find yourself needing to do

but it seems to just come naturally to you

you said what you meant the first time

quit fudging the truth. it's obnoxious and ridiculous as this point

If you had said "there is but one thing that atones for our sins, and that is the shed blood of Christ on the cross" I would have agreed.

what a bunch of bunk

I have said that only the blood of Christ can cleanse us from our sins over and over and over through these forums and somewhere in reply to you and waterboy more than once

slippery like an eel the way you keep changing your posts and then try to blame others

yuck

 

[Wansvic]

The contention is not whether Jesus is God or not. The scripture is crystal clear on that. Jesus is God the Son. However, we must have a good grasp of the Trinity to know that what you are contending about the NAME Jesus is not what it is. We must be able to differentiate his meaning when he says, I and my Father are one; when you see me you have seen the Father and Him being the fulness of God bodily. And then when he says, my Father is greater than me.

Actually the apostles consistent actions in association with water baptism prove that point. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) Also, as shared previously, Paul made the point that the name of the one who was crucified for people was to be used in water baptism. (1 Cor. 1:13-15)

 

[Wansvic]

First, Acts of the Apostles do not show all baptisms administered by all the Apostles, so it would be wrong to say that all baptisms were administered in the name of Jesus. Acts of the Apostles give records of baptisms by some of the Apostles.

Secondly, we must have a good grasp of the Trinity to have a clear understanding of when Jesus says, I and my Father are one and him being the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and then, when he says, my Father is greater than me. This understanding we need to know that Jesus is not a singular name for God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost.

Principles are not to be established by anything other than what God made available in the biblical record. We know this to be true because Jesus stated in John 12:48 that all will be judged by the word. And, Matthew 18:16 and 2 Cor. 13:1, make the point that truth will always be confirmed by 2-3 scriptures.

 

[SophieT]

Consider what Isaiah reveals about the Father, Son and Holy Ghost:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isa 9:6

The names of God actually point to plurality of persons. For example, the Hebrew word translated as God in Genesis and also in more than 2700 other places in the OT, is Elohim. This word means 'more than one' If Genesis 1:1 began with the Hebrew word 'El' it would have been singular, but this noun was not used. So, we have a plural name for God used over 2700 times in the OT and yet the Oneness group would have you believe this is not true.

In the beginning, ELOHIM created the heavens and the earth.

In Genesis 3:22, we read 'the man has become as one of us'. Well who is the US? Elohim...not El

Two Lords are mentioned in Genesis 19:24, two Lords sit side by side in Psalms 110: 1-5 among other such references in scripture

Yet, the Oneness Pentecostals will overlook these facts, change the subject or attempt to state that is not what the author meant

There is actually only ONE place in scripture where it is stated that Jesus is the Father, Isaiah 9...but this is a Hebrew idiom describing the terminology of the Jews. We know that while Jesus was on earth, he prayed to His Father in heaven and a voice from heaven spoke when He was baptized by John.

Scripture also states that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father in heaven.

It is mind boggling how people can try to teach that no Godhead exists.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

First, Acts of the Apostles do not show all baptisms administered by all the Apostles, so it would be wrong to say that all baptisms were administered in the name of Jesus. Acts of the Apostles give records of baptisms by some of the Apostles.

Secondly, we must have a good grasp of the Trinity to have a clear understanding of when Jesus says, I and my Father are one and him being the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and then, when he says, my Father is greater than me. This understanding we need to know that Jesus is not a singular name for God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost.

“First, Acts of the Apostles do not show all baptisms administered by all the Apostles, so it would be wrong to say that all baptisms were administered in the name of Jesus. Acts of the Apostles give records of baptisms by some of the Apostles.”

yes everything that’s there is what we go
By though we don’t say “ well Everything isn’t recorded so maybe they allDid other things not Mentioned in scripture “that would Be going down Alice’s rabbit hole into a land of pure speculation and fantasy

There’s only The one name we get baptized into Jesus name because he is the Lord



“That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we get baptized in his name because it’s the only name we’re given

“….by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Because it’s the gospel we believe

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord…..
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:1, 3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because …
“And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So that
“That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And so

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. ….Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39, 41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus name saves

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭

“Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:4-5‬ ‭

We die with Jesus through baptism for remission of sins

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3, 6-7‬ ‭

it’s silly to debate what name is the name for Christians it’s the basis for the New Testament

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s no question about getting baptized in my belief but you know it’s ok if you don’t agree I’m ok with that. It seems like arguing just for the sake of it getting baptized is something we do. Because of what God said it means it’s Simple and it’s faith

“Believe the gospel and get baptized and I will remit your sins and you will be saved “

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we then need to argue about if it’s really needed it’s because we didn’t hear and believe the good news that saves souls

“ the fruit is poison don’t eat it or you will die “ “ okay lord I believe you !!

v.

“ is the fruit really poison ? Is that really what God said ? “ hmm not sure what do you think ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

wrong. we are bought with the blood of Christ. He shed His blood to redeem us from the sin we are born with.

13 Christ bought us with His blood and made us free from the Law. In that way, the Law could not punish us. Christ did this by carrying the load and by being punished instead of us. It is written, “Anyone who hangs on a cross is hated and punished.”
14 Because of the price Christ Jesus paid, the good things that came to Abraham might come to the people who are not Jews. And by putting our trust in Christ, we receive the Holy Spirit He has promised. Galatians 3

water did not buy us or save us. Christ bought us with His blood

“wrong. we are bought with the blood of Christ.”

Yeah can agree that Christs suffering and death laid for our souls . did I say bought with water or did you create that ? So you had something to correct and argue ?

“water did not buy us or save us. Christ bought us with His blood”

seems like your creating and rebuking all in one post. But yeah Christ gave his life no doubt in that part now let’s see if getting baptized relates to his death ?


“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4, 6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so agreed Jesus she’s his blood to propitiate for all sin

“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

how does that information change what the Bible teaches about getting baptized in water for remission of sins because we believe in Jesus ? Jesus shed his blood yep and Jesus told us to believe and get baptized as well

doesnt seem Like a conundrum to say both are true Jesus paid the price for all people but some don’t believe and respond he also offers remission of sins through faith but some don’t hear and believe

 

[SophieT]

“wrong. we are bought with the blood of Christ.”

Yeah can agree that Christs suffering and death laid for our souls . did I say bought with water or did you create that ? So you had something to correct and argue ?

“water did not buy us or save us. Christ bought us with His blood”

seems like your creating and rebuking all in one post. But yeah Christ gave his life no doubt in that part now let’s see if getting baptized relates to his death ?


“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4, 6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so agreed Jesus she’s his blood to propitiate for all sin

“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

how does that information change what the Bible teaches about getting baptized in water for remission of sins because we believe in Jesus ? Jesus shed his blood yep and Jesus told us to believe and get baptized as well

doesnt seem Like a conundrum to say both are true Jesus paid the price for all people but some don’t believe and respond he also offers remission of sins through faith but some don’t hear and believe

this is what you actually said:

we’re not born of blood though ….rather water and spirit your post #73

so yes you are very wrong...and the scripture I posted verified that fact

you seem to be in such a huff. instead, why don't you acknowledge that you are wrong when you say we are not born of blood but are born through water and spirit

seems like your creating and rebuking all in one post. But yeah Christ gave his life no doubt in that part now let’s see if getting baptized relates to his death ?

you should be rebuked, but I was simply correcting your fallacy. how were you saved? would you like to describe that experience?

I really do not care about the rest of your post and how much you tried to spin what you actually said

the fact you seem to believe that Jesus needs our help, indicates a person who does not understand God's plan of salvation

but again...you were saved how? can you describe that event?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

this is what you actually said:

we’re not born of blood though ….rather water and spirit your post #73

so yes you are very wrong...and the scripture I posted verified that fact

you seem to be in such a huff. instead, why don't you acknowledge that you are wrong when you say we are not born of blood but are born through water and spirit



you should be rebuked, but I was simply correcting your fallacy. how were you saved? would you like to describe that experience?

I really do not care about the rest of your post and how much you tried to spin what you actually said

the fact you seem to believe that Jesus needs our help, indicates a person who does not understand God's plan of salvation

but again...you were saved how? can you describe that event?

“we’re not born of blood though ….rather water and spirit your post #73”

so I was agreeing with Jesus ?

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬

lol I believe I was speaking of scripture doesn’t say we’re born of blood does it ??? It seems you don’t claim that either your saying “ we were bought with his blood not water “ and I agree your not saying we’re born of blood are you ? Because if not you agree with Jesus word too

“we’re not born of blood though ….rather water and spirit”

what’s your beef with that to begin with ? See your saying to Me “ we weren’t bought with water we were bought with his blood “ I agree but what’s your beef with what I said is the thing I’m lost really it seems your creating it yourself

I did say we aren’t born of blood because it says we’re born of water and spirit . Blood is what Jesus was born of not us we’re born of water and spirit and his perfect blood is our atonement. We’re never born of Jesus blood though not sure what you think you see in that statement but we’re not born of his blood we’re born of his spirit up from the water of remission and Into the spirit

“This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so I agree with this but I bet you can’t agree probably huh ?

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Seems we’re born of water and spirit to
Me but I’m Christian so I try to hear what Christ says and not worry about the contradictions

 

[justbyfaith]

Two Lords are mentioned in Genesis 19:24, two Lords sit side by side in Psalms 110: 1-5 among other such references in scripture

The Bible teaches clearly that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6).

So, if two Lords are mentioned anywhere, it should be clear that if both are designated with a capital "L", that they are the same Lord.

 

[justbyfaith]

why don't you acknowledge that you are wrong when you say we are not born of blood but are born through water and spirit

See John 1:12-13, John 3:5.

 

[Wansvic]

The names of God actually point to plurality of persons. For example, the Hebrew word translated as God in Genesis and also in more than 2700 other places in the OT, is Elohim. This word means 'more than one' If Genesis 1:1 began with the Hebrew word 'El' it would have been singular, but this noun was not used. So, we have a plural name for God used over 2700 times in the OT and yet the Oneness group would have you believe this is not true.

In the beginning, ELOHIM created the heavens and the earth.

In Genesis 3:22, we read 'the man has become as one of us'. Well who is the US? Elohim...not El

Two Lords are mentioned in Genesis 19:24, two Lords sit side by side in Psalms 110: 1-5 among other such references in scripture

Yet, the Oneness Pentecostals will overlook these facts, change the subject or attempt to state that is not what the author meant

There is actually only ONE place in scripture where it is stated that Jesus is the Father, Isaiah 9...but this is a Hebrew idiom describing the terminology of the Jews. We know that while Jesus was on earth, he prayed to His Father in heaven and a voice from heaven spoke when He was baptized by John.

Scripture also states that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father in heaven.

It is mind boggling how people can try to teach that no Godhead exists.

Notice what the word says: In Jesus dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily. (Col 2:9)

 

[Wansvic]

The point is that, it does not matter whether one is baptised in the name of the father, the Son and the holy Ghost or in the name of Jesus. Both fulfils the standard Jesus gave on how one should be baptised.

Notice what Peter stated concerning water baptism on the Day of Pentecost: ",,,And be baptized EVERYONE of you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sin..." Peter was specific. EVERYONE was to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. No mention of the Father or the Holy Ghost. Why? Again, because the apostles obeyed the command Jesus gave in Matthew 28:19.

 

[KelbyofGod]

you know most people would get a headache doing the damage control you find yourself needing to do

but it seems to just come naturally to you

you said what you meant the first time
[ ... ]

slippery like an eel the way you keep changing your posts and then try to blame others

I try very hard to not agree with a statement (or question) that can be interpreted as saying something I'm not saying. It's part of "be wise as serpents, harmless as doves" (which is also why I would rather give a compliment than a cut-down)

Often when you try to get me to agree to something, you've included a vagueness or have re-worded my statement (often only slightly) but in a way that changes the meaning. That's when I'll step away from agreement. And usually I'll try to find a clearer way to state the point.

I want to address the Jesus' blood topic directly in another post (remind me if I forget). But first I will address something about yourself.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby