Liberal and Conservative Christianity are both false

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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
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#81
American hating americans--yes--can't believe i left that out. It's like an episode of the Twilight Zone--except a lot more disturbing.

Thanks for sharing about your struggle in finding a new church. I've pretty much given up--I'm looking for a house church and praying about finding others who might be interested in starting one--I believe there are many others like me who are done with the institutional church (though how to find them?)--all the money going to the running of the machine--move trailer sermons--Tune in next week!--and every week they follow the same script. I run into Christians I've known for years who serve in the church and they are accepting so many things of the world--same sex marriage as an example or their teenage daughter's friend who has decided at 14 that she is a boy. Or Pastor John Ortberg's (you can look them up if you don't recognize the name) daughter who decided at 30 she was a man and then married a man who transitioned to being a woman--yes, truth is stranger than fiction.

The bible says don't forsake fellowship, but what if you want the fellowship but can't find it? The only good thing is I know the bible better now than I ever have--but thru studying discovering that every denomination has some false doctrine.

And back to what you said--among other things you said--closer to the love of God. I know what the bible says about God's love, but I never really have experienced it--I pray often but I don't feel I am praying as I should. I normally read my bible just before bed, so I don't feel I am spending as much time in the word as I should--anyway, I'm glad you mentioned it because it gave me something to think about--thank you.

now it's late, so that's why i'm not editing. (;



Thanks for sharing about your struggle in finding a new church. I've pretty much given up--I'm looking for a house church and praying about finding others who might be interested in starting one--I believe there are many others like me who are done with the institutional church (though how to find them?)--all the money going to the running of the machine--move trailer sermons--Tune in next week!--and every week they follow the same script.


We had tried to start a house church and I taught weekly with great discussions but over time people moved away or stopped coming and went back to traditional church. We would invite but people wouldn't come. I also believe we had no one in the group who was gifted in evangelism. I know myself is an introvert and I take a lot of preparation and thought into what I say or will say. So small talk is not easy for me. I like the deep thinking questions, the rich studies and in depth discussions.
I run into Christians I've known for years who serve in the church and they are accepting so many things of the world--same sex marriage as an example or their teenage daughter's friend who has decided at 14 that she is a boy. Or Pastor John Ortberg's (you can look them up if you don't recognize the name) daughter who decided at 30 she was a man and then married a man who transitioned to being a woman--yes, truth is stranger than fiction.


Unfortunately this is true for so many self proclaimed Christians. There are Christians who think there are other ways to salvation outside of Jesus, that good people go to Heaven (versus saved people), that the Bible is not the objective Word of God, and morals are subjective to only time and location.

For these people many believe they are not true Christians. For some this is true but for others I just hope it is of ignorance and a infant thinking Christian.

Also for the LGBT issues many do not know how to evangelize these individuals. We have to remember the Church is for the sinner, the pews or seats are for the sinners. But not for false teachers. The leadership is also for those who are following Jesus (still a sinner) but not enslaved to sin. There are Christians who struggle with homosexual or gender confusion. The only difference is if they struggle with the sin nature like us all.

This group statistically are many who have been abused as children, who have been brainwashed by their parents into thinking as a four year old boy they can be a girl, peer pressure or wanting to be accepted has been the leading cause in the rise of teen girl homosexual behavior, other studies show not only peer pressure but environment, upbringing, biology play into lgbt choices (biology as in damage to the brain through abuse or mental illness) and people who have been in bad relationships with the opposite sex, gender dysphoria is a real but rare case where someone is genuinely confused on their gender (this is typically fixed with therapy), and of course, just like the 70s and 80s it has also become a sexual freedom movement and a middle finger to traditional values of a system they have been taught to hate.

The bible says don't forsake fellowship, but what if you want the fellowship but can't find it? The only good thing is I know the bible better now than I ever have--but thru studying discovering that every denomination has some false doctrine.
This is true. No one has it 100% correct but we all should unite on the doctrines of who God is, Who Jesus is, what Jesus came to do, Heaven and Hell as literal places, salvation, and grace/faith.

Every Christian should study and get to where you are now.

And back to what you said--among other things you said--closer to the love of God. I know what the bible says about God's love, but I never really have experienced it--I pray often but I don't feel I am praying as I should. I normally read my bible just before bed, so I don't feel I am spending as much time in the word as I should--anyway, I'm glad you mentioned it because it gave me something to think about--thank you.
May I ask how do you define God's love? When you pray do you give attention to how God speaks? God can speak through natural or supernatural revelation or general and special revelation.

Natural/general is God moving in nature or a message through other humans.

Supernatural/ Special is God speaking in dreams, visions, audibly, miracles, and revealing of wisdom from His written Word which in my opinion is His most used source to speak to us. Especially through the man of Jesus Christ.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
#82
Your too quick on the draw here Rondomon--again people try to say it's in the bible but you will not find the elders teacher apostles or Jesus preaching politics--the gospel is NOT politics and only the gospel will change people--please, people stop responding before carefully reading a person's position--it's so frustrating as I said Christians should be good citizens, fight corruption abortion etc.
Tats because you want to call it politics, I don't, I call it what John did, its not politics, its calling out EVIL. You and others use this as an excuse to not do what needs to be done. Jesus called the Pharisees vipers/devils and told them they would all be going to hell "(of course he knew, I would have to parse that by adding in IF you do not change your evil ways).

I read your post fully sister. I understand fully the qualifications, I am just pointing out God don't care about wat we call politics, or that our evil Gov. in the 1960s tried to tame what we say by passing the John son Amendment to stop the Church from speaking freely, did you know that? So for near 200 years could speak freely on ANYTHING, and all of the sudden in the 60s the Dems and Johnson tried to stymie their speech, so this is just political in your mind, calling out evil by ANYONE is our job. They have trained people to think as they do. The call people in the center FAR RIGHT, and people repent it as if we are Right, no they were doe away with for the most part LONG AGO, there are no KKK basically anywhere in America, there are no FAR RIGHT people thats why the have Hoaxes like Jussie Smollet. Mathew Sheppard was not killed by homosexual haters, a book came out saying the evidence showed two other homosexual men actually killed him, but the left uses propaganda, make people FEEL GUILTY.

The Jan 6 incident is the same thing as the Russia Investigation, the President and many of his cabinent called for a National Guard presence, but the Mayor f DC and Nancy Pelosi rejected that, why? Because the Feds placed people in the crowd and instigated people to go in, they wanted tis to happen, the CIA does this all over the world. They were opening the doors. People at the event were told they were told to STAND DOWN and t try to stop it, however these same people refused to call all of the BLM and ANTIFA Riots out, they will nit investigate that at all, they are partisan hacks, the FBI has been infiltrated with Commies. Naive people just don't see these things.

I knew this would happen because I understand Prophecy, I knew the Anti- Christs time was at hand so I knew Trump would win and they would steal the Election. But I also know they would not have ever gotten to this point f people had not allowed it. They are teaching our kids to hate god and to be Hedonistic creatures of lust, and we allowed it, we cant blame anyone but ourselves. That's why Gods anger is building, His Wrath is very near, we will not be here, but we still have a job to do, to call these evil people out, to shine the light onto evil, we don't get to say, WELL, THAT'S POLITICS, no, Jesus didn't call it politics when he denounced the Pharisees, nor did John when he denounced King Herod. You know I am right sister, we still must do our job, get out of our comfort zone, pick up our cross and follow Jesus. Using its politics is just and excuse not to get involved and to not call these evil people out.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
#83
You can be a Christian and fit into a political side. But where you put your faith in is what matters. If you think a sin is okay because the government says it is, then you are not following God (abortion, homosexuality etc).
When you put yourself on a pedestal because you see the other political party as the enemy or more evil, then you forget your sins and the price Jesus paid for you.
I am a conservative republican, mainly on policy belief but I put my faith in God and the moral labels of everyone on the commandments of God and not political parties.
Both sides struggle with greed
Both sides struggle with hate
Both sides struggle with envy
Both sides struggle with pride
Both sides put too much faith in their party and not in Christ
Both sides put their political identity and its worth before their identity in Christ and His worth
Yes, we should never trust in these people, but if you notice, when the votes stop coming in these people CHANGE colors like chameleons. There would be no abortion now if ALL Christians held these people to task. There would be no homosexual marriage if all Christians held these people to task. These are facts but Satan is a liar he knows ho to divide and conquer naive people
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
113
#84
You can be a Christian and fit into a political side. But where you put your faith in is what matters. If you think a sin is okay because the government says it is, then you are not following God (abortion, homosexuality etc).
When you put yourself on a pedestal because you see the other political party as the enemy or more evil, then you forget your sins and the price Jesus paid for you.
I am a conservative republican, mainly on policy belief but I put my faith in God and the moral labels of everyone on the commandments of God and not political parties.
Both sides struggle with greed
Both sides struggle with hate
Both sides struggle with envy
Both sides struggle with pride
Both sides put too much faith in their party and not in Christ
Both sides put their political identity and its worth before their identity in Christ and His worth
Both sides struggle with greed
Both sides struggle with hate
Both sides struggle with envy
Both sides struggle with pride
Both sides put too much faith in their party and not in Christ
Both sides put their political identity and its worth before their identity in Christ and His worth
In all honesty I only see one side struggle while the other completely gives in.

I do not see the new Conservative movement to have their identity before Christ. But I also look at policies promoted and listen to many conservatives up incoming or in office speak on the issues and many take their faith very seriously.

I almost feel many people have failed to see the shift from Democrat and Republican. Democrats now by majority are Socialists. Republicans are now by majority the Conservative Party who holds Christian values as their guide.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,235
710
113
#87
Consumers buy products from amazon, creating a demand. Amazon hires workers to fill that demand.

No consumers, no demand. No demand, no jobs.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
113
#88
Consumers buy products from amazon, creating a demand. Amazon hires workers to fill that demand.

No consumers, no demand. No demand, no jobs.
And who in this case answered the call to the demand?

The decline in in-person sales left a demand for better online stores.

Jeff Bezos founded Amazon in late 1994, on a cross-country road trip from New York City to Seattle. The company began as an online bookstore and has since expanded to a wide variety of other e-commerce products and services, including video and audio streaming, cloud computing, and artificial intelligence. It is currently the world's largest online sales company, the largest Internet company by revenue, and the world's largest provider of virtual assistants and cloud infrastructure services through its Amazon Web Services branch.

Without those willing to risk financial success or failure we would not see companies like this.

(I'm just using this as an example)

In some cases people can build a company from almost nothing as in the case of the KFC founder. But for many companies it took someone with money to invest. Ever watch Shark Tank the tv show?

Of course, demand is part of the factor, but yes the rich do help create jobs.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,235
710
113
#89
I Republicans are now by majority the Conservative Party who holds Christian values as their guide.
Again, mammon worship, self-idolatry, cheating workers, lies deceit and hypocrisy, and abandoning compassion for the truly sick and poor ARE NOT CHRISTIAN VALUES

Christians have just been deceived into thinking they are, or blinded to the fact the republicans promote them, because they are tunnel visioned on the sins of the left.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,235
710
113
#90
And who in this case answered the call to the demand?

The decline in in-person sales left a demand for better online stores.

Jeff Bezos founded Amazon in late 1994, on a cross-country road trip from New York City to Seattle. The company began as an online bookstore and has since expanded to a wide variety of other e-commerce products and services, including video and audio streaming, cloud computing, and artificial intelligence. It is currently the world's largest online sales company, the largest Internet company by revenue, and the world's largest provider of virtual assistants and cloud infrastructure services through its Amazon Web Services branch.

Without those willing to risk financial success or failure we would not see companies like this.

(I'm just using this as an example)

In some cases people can build a company from almost nothing as in the case of the KFC founder. But for many companies it took someone with money to invest. Ever watch Shark Tank the tv show?

Of course, demand is part of the factor, but yes the rich do help create jobs.
No rich person EVER hired someone to produce/sell/ship items consumers aren't buying.

My older brother is a prime example (npi). Poured tons of time and money into a business that no one ever patronized. As a result, despite the time and money he invested, he never created a single job.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,235
710
113
#91
The decline in in-person sales left a demand for better online stores.
It was online sales that created the decline in in-person sales.

How very republican of you, to insist on putting the cart in front of the horse.

This is why trickle-down, in all the places it's been tried, has been a miserable failure. Yet despite the failure, republicans STILL push it, because it lines their pockets.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
113
#92
Again, mammon worship, self-idolatry, cheating workers, lies deceit and hypocrisy, and abandoning compassion for the truly sick and poor ARE NOT CHRISTIAN VALUES

Christians have just been deceived into thinking they are, or blinded to the fact the republicans promote them, because they are tunnel visioned on the sins of the left.
Do you love socialism because I am getting the vibe you hold to socialistic ideology. Maybe you won't admit it. But according to this post above, you are the one deceived.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
113
#93
No rich person EVER hired someone to produce/sell/ship items consumers aren't buying.

My older brother is a prime example (npi). Poured tons of time and money into a business that no one ever patronized. As a result, despite the time and money he invested, he never created a single job.
But by majority a rich person HAS hired someone to produce/sell/ship items consumers ARE buying.

Your brother took a risk and failed. Others took that risk and was successful. Through there success in supplying the demand they created 100s to 1000s of jobs.

You must got something against rich entrepreneurs? Possible jealousy or greed?
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
113
#94
Tats because you want to call it politics, I don't, I call it what John did, its not politics, its calling out EVIL. You and others use this as an excuse to not do what needs to be done. Jesus called the Pharisees vipers/devils and told them they would all be going to hell "(of course he knew, I would have to parse that by adding in IF you do not change your evil ways).

I read your post fully sister. I understand fully the qualifications, I am just pointing out God don't care about wat we call politics, or that our evil Gov. in the 1960s tried to tame what we say by passing the John son Amendment to stop the Church from speaking freely, did you know that? So for near 200 years could speak freely on ANYTHING, and all of the sudden in the 60s the Dems and Johnson tried to stymie their speech, so this is just political in your mind, calling out evil by ANYONE is our job. They have trained people to think as they do. The call people in the center FAR RIGHT, and people repent it as if we are Right, no they were doe away with for the most part LONG AGO, there are no KKK basically anywhere in America, there are no FAR RIGHT people thats why the have Hoaxes like Jussie Smollet. Mathew Sheppard was not killed by homosexual haters, a book came out saying the evidence showed two other homosexual men actually killed him, but the left uses propaganda, make people FEEL GUILTY.

The Jan 6 incident is the same thing as the Russia Investigation, the President and many of his cabinent called for a National Guard presence, but the Mayor f DC and Nancy Pelosi rejected that, why? Because the Feds placed people in the crowd and instigated people to go in, they wanted tis to happen, the CIA does this all over the world. They were opening the doors. People at the event were told they were told to STAND DOWN and t try to stop it, however these same people refused to call all of the BLM and ANTIFA Riots out, they will nit investigate that at all, they are partisan hacks, the FBI has been infiltrated with Commies. Naive people just don't see these things.

I knew this would happen because I understand Prophecy, I knew the Anti- Christs time was at hand so I knew Trump would win and they would steal the Election. But I also know they would not have ever gotten to this point f people had not allowed it. They are teaching our kids to hate god and to be Hedonistic creatures of lust, and we allowed it, we cant blame anyone but ourselves. That's why Gods anger is building, His Wrath is very near, we will not be here, but we still have a job to do, to call these evil people out, to shine the light onto evil, we don't get to say, WELL, THAT'S POLITICS, no, Jesus didn't call it politics when he denounced the Pharisees, nor did John when he denounced King Herod. You know I am right sister, we still must do our job, get out of our comfort zone, pick up our cross and follow Jesus. Using its politics is just and excuse not to get involved and to not call these evil people out.
you said”You and others use this as an excuse to not do what needs to be done.”

obviously you are picking and choosing and not taking the time to read what i write— yes christians need to stand up against evil and be responsible citizens of course! No that church becomes a political platform — Christ is our example, the gospel is the only thing that will change men’s hearts.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
113
#95
It was online sales that created the decline in in-person sales.

How very republican of you, to insist on putting the cart in front of the horse.

This is why trickle-down, in all the places it's been tried, has been a miserable failure. Yet despite the failure, republicans STILL push it, because it lines their pockets.
It was online sales that created the decline in in-person sales.
This is what I said. The demand was there and someone took a risk and it paud off big time. If no risk was taken then there would be no Amazon, no Amazon, no workers.

It is such a failure to be one of the wealthiest and nations on Earth.
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
113
#96
Yes, we should never trust in these people, but if you notice, when the votes stop coming in these people CHANGE colors like chameleons. There would be no abortion now if ALL Christians held these people to task. There would be no homosexual marriage if all Christians held these people to task. These are facts but Satan is a liar he knows ho to divide and conquer naive people
How many people made it out of the flood out of millions. Only 8. Howm nany made it out of Sodom and G. 3 out of 1000s— the majority of the world do not follow after God. Even Jesus did not change the Evil Roman Empire while on this earth.
 

CronBri1992

Junior Member
Apr 14, 2018
10
4
3
#97
In all honesty I only see one side struggle while the other completely gives in.

I do not see the new Conservative movement to have their identity before Christ. But I also look at policies promoted and listen to many conservatives up incoming or in office speak on the issues and many take their faith very seriously.

I almost feel many people have failed to see the shift from Democrat and Republican. Democrats now by majority are Socialists. Republicans are now by majority the Conservative Party who holds Christian values as their guide.
It almost seems like people of certain political views do fit the demographic of Christians. But I believe we should separate ourselves of worldly beliefs and stick to full trust in God and His ways
 

CronBri1992

Junior Member
Apr 14, 2018
10
4
3
#98
By the way, is Christianchat down? I tried getting on the chat and nothing pops up.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
#99
you said”You and others use this as an excuse to not do what needs to be done.”

obviously you are picking and choosing and not taking the time to read what i write— yes christians need to stand up against evil and be responsible citizens of course! No that church becomes a political platform — Christ is our example, the gospel is the only thing that will change men’s hearts.
I understand the way you are parsing it, but its not politics to preach against these evil people. I AGREE (believe it or not, :)) I don't think preachers should spend very other Sunday talking Dem/Republican and why we need to trust in men and people in Politics, so we agree there, I get very agitated when I see Preachers who do this every week because they are missing the mark, our trust and focus should be on Jesus, but st the same time, instead of trying to say this is nw how we can change things, they need to point to why we lost that ground, and why we will soon be raptured because of ALL THESE SIGNS. My point is the reason we lost these grounds is we allowed Satan to tell us we can't be political, but that is also our job, because we each have VOTES unlike men back before the 1776 US Constitution, where men in Europe were not allowed to vote unless they were Aristocrats. So, we each have a vote thus we have a duty as Christians to represent Jesus with that vote, that's my point.

I am not saying Preachers should spend 24/7/365 preaching Politics, but we do have a duty because we represent Jesus, we have to call out evil and we have to try and put forth the value of Jesus as best we can with that vote.

So I understand your point, but I don't think we can free ourselves from politics because we each have a vote. I also don't want to hear a preacher talking politics every week, but if hes speaking about the evil being done by our leaders, I am OK with that.

How many people made it out of the flood out of millions. Only 8. Howm nany made it out of Sodom and G. 3 out of 1000s— the majority of the world do not follow after God. Even Jesus did not change the Evil Roman Empire while on this earth.
But Nineveh repented sister, even though Jonah cowered at God's command. Jesus so loved the world he came to die, even if only one person came unto Christ he would have sacrificed himself, because love conquers all, SECONDLY, why has God allowed Satan to reign for 6000 some odd years? As a WITNESS unto his guilt. We do the same thing, we must tell the wicked the wickedness of their ways, then if they do not repent God will use that against them, this is why all men must hear the Gospel. After Jesus' 1000 year reign brings Peace and tranquility, Satan can't say but they love my way, no they were mislead by a liar, but under Jesus there will be NO MURDER, NO WARS, NO LIES, NO GREED etc. etc. This will convict Satan, thus Jesus can say ALL MURDERS are on you Satan.

God Bless
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,845
4,497
113
It almost seems like people of certain political views do fit the demographic of Christians. But I believe we should separate ourselves of worldly beliefs and stick to full trust in God and His ways
We should always remain Biblical. I just so happen to think the Bible speaks on all political views.