Liberal and Conservative Christianity are both false

[Laura798]

Politics has increasingly invaded every aspect of our lives in the US, and religion is no exception. You hear both sides saying the other side are evil, false Christians. But my contention is both sides are evil and false.

The right pays home to the god of country and patriotism, among other false gods; and the left worships themselves and pleasure.

"Come out of her, my people, lest you participate in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues."—Revelation 8:4

"Therefore 'Come out from the midst of them and be separated,' says the Lord. 'Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you.' "—2 Corinthians 6:17; Isaiah 52:11

It's a bit of a challenge to articulate exactly what I want to say. I do believe as citizens we must vote our conscience and care about the decisions our government makes, however I was disturbed by how Christians have, for example raised Donald Trump to 'savior' status even though he is not a Christian. I could not bring myself to vote for the 'lesser' of two evils in the last election--my feeling is Trump has caused much animosity and hard push backs against Christians in this country--Liberals now equate Republicans with Christianity.

I met some women at a 4th of July barbecue for conservatives, who invited me to join their women's home church bible study. I asked them if they followed any particular teacher--they said Jack Hibbs of Calvary Chapel. I looked him up on Youtube and the first video I saw was a scripted 'performance' of him crying over Trump's loss--it was theatrical and completely planned out as evidence of the video screen images and text and music--I felt like I was watching a religious Twilight episode. Needless to say I didn't join the study.

Also, I called a church whose pastor had a radio program in the county where I lived as he seemed to be well versed in scripture. His mother and and father were actually the founders of the church in the 50's. In any case I contacted the church to see if someone could speak to me regarding my spiritual angst--the state of the church universal and my difficulty in finding a simple gospel centered church in my area. His mother contacted me which I thought initially was quite gracious. However, when I mentioned not having voted you would've thought I called Jesus Belzeebub--she said Trump was a Christian (no more calling a lion an elephant makes that so) and when on for a good 15 minutes telling me how wrong I was. I couldn't believe it . Trump himself said, he didn't have need to ask God for forgiveness. The bible says 'you will know them by their fruit' by his own words and actions it is impossible for me to believe he is a Christian. In any case, I hung up more discouraged than ever at the way politics has become united with the 'Christian' faith.

Again, I do believe we are responsible as citizens to vote our conscience and to fight against tyranny--but the way things are going, I see it as making things worse for the Christian cause. A Christian should never make a political leader a 'savior'--I believe this is dangerous and could lead to the deception by the antichrist.

Excuse for not editing--skipped breakfast so must have some lunch!

 

[Aaron56]

I apologize if I came across as impolite.

In the process of voting in moral people here is one example of why we try.

The Texas Heartbeat Act, which is estimated to save the lives of 150 babies every day, protects an unborn child in the womb after that child’s heart begins to beat.

There is no doubt abortion is a scourge in the U.S. It is of the same spirit of child sacrifice to secure good fortune from a Pagan god. This is what I would say to people who defend the practice of abortion on demand.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

It's a bit of a challenge to articulate exactly what I want to say. I do believe as citizens we must vote our conscience and care about the decisions our government makes, however I was disturbed by how Christians have, for example raised Donald Trump to 'savior' status even though he is not a Christian. I could not bring myself to vote for the 'lesser' of two evils in the last election--my feeling is Trump has caused much animosity and hard push backs against Christians in this country--Liberals now equate Republicans with Christianity.

I met some women at a 4th of July barbecue for conservatives, who invited me to join their women's home church bible study. I asked them if they followed any particular teacher--they said Jack Hibbs of Calvary Chapel. I looked him up on Youtube and the first video I saw was a scripted 'performance' of him crying over Trump's loss--it was theatrical and completely planned out as evidence of the video screen images and text and music--I felt like I was watching a religious Twilight episode. Needless to say I didn't join the study.

Also, I called a church whose pastor had a radio program in the county where I lived as he seemed to be well versed in scripture. His mother and and father were actually the founders of the church in the 50's. In any case I contacted the church to see if someone could speak to me regarding my spiritual angst--the state of the church universal and my difficulty in finding a simple gospel centered church in my area. His mother contacted me which I thought initially was quite gracious. However, when I mentioned not having voted you would've thought I called Jesus Belzeebub--she said Trump was a Christian (no more calling a lion an elephant makes that so) and when on for a good 15 minutes telling me how wrong I was. I couldn't believe it . Trump himself said, he didn't have need to ask God for forgiveness. The bible says 'you will know them by their fruit' by his own words and actions it is impossible for me to believe he is a Christian. In any case, I hung up more discouraged than ever at the way politics has become united with the 'Christian' faith.

Again, I do believe we are responsible as citizens to vote our conscience and to fight against tyranny--but the way things are going, I see it as making things worse for the Christian cause. A Christian should never make a political leader a 'savior'--I believe this is dangerous and could lead to the deception by the antichrist.

Excuse for not editing--skipped breakfast so must have some lunch!

That was a beautiful prayer. Sounded sincere and how many of us felt.

I do believe Donald Trump was a Christian but a new Christian. The policies he promoted is not what someone who hates God would promote.

Look at the opposite direction our country has fallen. We are looking at a new army of terrorists in Afghanistan, Russis about to invade Ukraine, China watching for weakness to invade Taiwan, we also have lawlessness in the streets with nothing being done, open borders, etc.

No one I knew took Trump as a Savior as in salvation.

People had the most issues with his comments to the liberals attacking him. But yet no one hardly debated policies.

I voted for Trump because I did not see him as evil or had evidence to persuade me otherwise. I saw Hillary and Biden as evil servants of Satan.

In fact, I felt Trump was actually fighting for the people and not the establishment.

He made mistakes like not cleaning total house and falling into traps where they provoked him. But he wasn't a career politician. He said what he said and meant it.

His judges he filled has made a huge difference in cases all over America including the Supreme Court.

I am grateful for how God moved in him. He may have felt like a Samson but much good was done.

 

[JTB]

No one I knew took Trump as a Savior as in salvation.

Really? Because this is the impression I get on how many Christians idolize Trump:

 

[Laura798]

That was a beautiful prayer. Sounded sincere and how many of us felt.

I do believe Donald Trump was a Christian but a new Christian. The policies he promoted is not what someone who hates God would promote.

Look at the opposite direction our country has fallen. We are looking at a new army of terrorists in Afghanistan, Russis about to invade Ukraine, China watching for weakness to invade Taiwan, we also have lawlessness in the streets with nothing being done, open borders, etc.

No one I knew took Trump as a Savior as in salvation.

People had the most issues with his comments to the liberals attacking him. But yet no one hardly debated policies.

I voted for Trump because I did not see him as evil or had evidence to persuade me otherwise. I saw Hillary and Biden as evil servants of Satan.

In fact, I felt Trump was actually fighting for the people and not the establishment.

He made mistakes like not cleaning total house and falling into traps where they provoked him. But he wasn't a career politician. He said what he said and meant it.

His judges he filled has made a huge difference in cases all over America including the Supreme Court.

I am grateful for how God moved in him. He may have felt like a Samson but much good was done.

Oh Rough Soul! This is exactly how believers will be deceived by the anti-christ. Of course when I use the word savior I mean in the context of this earthly realm, the same way the Germans saw Hitler as a type of messiah-the same with the Jews in Jesus' time who were looking for an earthly ruler/messiah. It's so scary how Christians have been deceived by Trump-'even Satan comes as an angel of light'--Trump is not a Christian--if someone says they do not need to ask God for forgiveness it is IMPOSSIBLE they are a Christian--and the words that come out of his mouth show he is not a Christian--calling yourself a Christian does not make you one, no more than a monkey calling himself a lion.

Notice in this video Trump evades the question if he has ever asked God for forgiveness and also never actually calls himself a Christian--he says he is a 'religous person', a 'protestant', a 'Presbyterian', but not however a Christian.

I am truly surprised that you think his Jack Hibbs prayer was 'sincere'; it is so obvious the whole thing was choreographed. He was one of the pastors that met with Trump--but the bible says do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. I cannot imagine Jesus or any of the apostles being part of Trump's prayer posse--that is a 'team' vs just simply praying for him. I feel they want to keep their 5013 C Status--all the pastors that met with him are raking in the bucks.

Christ told us what the end will be like--things will go from bad to worse--unlike some false teachers that actually believe things will get better.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Really? Because this is the impression I get on how many Christians idolize Trump:

View attachment 233893

Then your impression is misinformed nothing in that image represents Jesus.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Oh Rough Soul! This is exactly how believers will be deceived by the anti-christ. Of course when I use the word savior I mean in the context of this earthly realm, the same way the Germans saw Hitler as a type of messiah-the same with the Jews in Jesus' time who were looking for an earthly ruler/messiah. It's so scary how Christians have been deceived by Trump-'even Satan comes as an angel of light'--Trump is not a Christian--if someone says they do not need to ask God for forgiveness it is IMPOSSIBLE they are a Christian--and the words that come out of his mouth show he is not a Christian--calling yourself a Christian does not make you one, no more than a monkey calling himself a lion.

Notice in this video Trump evades the question if he has ever asked God for forgiveness and also never actually calls himself a Christian--he says he is a 'religous person', a 'protestant', a 'Presbyterian', but not however a Christian.

I am truly surprised that you think his Jack Hibbs prayer was 'sincere'; it is so obvious the whole thing was choreographed. He was one of the pastors that met with Trump--but the bible says do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. I cannot imagine Jesus or any of the apostles being part of Trump's prayer posse--that is a 'team' vs just simply praying for him. I feel they want to keep their 5013 C Status--all the pastors that met with him are raking in the bucks.

Christ told us what the end will be like--things will go from bad to worse--unlike some false teachers that actually believe things will get better.

This is what he said but Paul also had to do some teaching and addressing baby Christians.

I listen to Dr James Dobson on Biblical advice for family and marriage. He is one of many who testified to Trump's conversion.

Dr James C Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family and a leading socially conservative voice, said Trump had recently come "to accept a relationship with Christ" and was now "a baby Christian". 27 June 2016

https://www.christiantoday.com/arti...y.accepted.christ.says.james.dobson/89337.htm

Can any one of us say we understood everything about Christianity when we were saved? We have some 30 years plus who still try to keep the law.

 

[Laura798]

This is what he said but Paul also had to do some teaching and addressing baby Christians.

I listen to Dr James Dobson on Biblical advice for family and marriage. He is one of many who testified to Trump's conversion.

Dr James C Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family and a leading socially conservative voice, said Trump had recently come "to accept a relationship with Christ" and was now "a baby Christian". 27 June 2016

https://www.christiantoday.com/arti...y.accepted.christ.says.james.dobson/89337.htm

Can any one of us say we understood everything about Christianity when we were saved? We have some 30 years plus who still try to keep the law.

Supposedly that was in 2016--still a baby i guess.He couldn't even pick a favorite bible verse. When pressed he said his favorite verse was 'an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'

I'm disappointed to hear that James Dobson says Trump is a Christian, but a lot of people say he is, that doesn't meaning anything. Did you see who spoke at his inauguration, the false teacher Paula White, a self - proclaimed 'apostle' who said among other things, "that wherever she is, the ground she stands on becomes “holy ground.” Her husband has even shockingly endorsed the use of pornography:

It was HER that supposedly led Trump to Christ. It's like a Christian version of the Twilight Zone---only it's not Christian--it's just pretending to be....

"…21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’…"--Matthew 7:22

 

[Laura798]

This is what he said but Paul also had to do some teaching and addressing baby Christians.

I listen to Dr James Dobson on Biblical advice for family and marriage. He is one of many who testified to Trump's conversion.

Dr James C Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family and a leading socially conservative voice, said Trump had recently come "to accept a relationship with Christ" and was now "a baby Christian". 27 June 2016

https://www.christiantoday.com/arti...y.accepted.christ.says.james.dobson/89337.htm

Can any one of us say we understood everything about Christianity when we were saved? We have some 30 years plus who still try to keep the law.

Here is the link about Paula White, saying 'wherever she walks it becomes holy ground'--if she led Trump to Christ then he is not a Christian because a false teacher will never lead anyone to Christ--all that follow her instead are on their way to destruction:

https://pulpitandpen.org/2019/07/08/paula-white-says-wherever-she-steps-becomes-holy-ground/

Just as in the flood--there were few in number who escaped--even in our so called 'churches' there are so few true believers. These are the times we are in now:

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."--2 Timothy 4:3

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Supposedly that was in 2016--still a baby i guess.He couldn't even pick a favorite bible verse. When pressed he said his favorite verse was 'an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'

I'm disappointed to hear that James Dobson says Trump is a Christian, but a lot of people say he is, that doesn't meaning anything. Did you see who spoke at his inauguration, the false teacher Paula White, a self - proclaimed 'apostle' who said among other things, "that wherever she is, the ground she stands on becomes “holy ground.” Her husband has even shockingly endorsed the use of pornography:

It was HER that supposedly led Trump to Christ. It's like a Christian version of the Twilight Zone---only it's not Christian--it's just pretending to be....

"…21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’…"--Matthew 7:22

Yes but look who he surrounded himself with from outward appearance and policies good Christians.

Vice-president elect Mike Pence, who stated, “My Christian faith is at the heart of who I am” and “I’m a Christian, a conservative and a Republican, in that order,” Chief of Staff Reince Preibus, Attorney General Jeff Sessions (who also moonlights as a Sunday school teacher at his family’s church), Housing and Urban Development’s Dr. Ben Carson, Education’s Betsy DeVos, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, EPA’s Scott Pruitt, CIA’s Mike Pompeo (whose family attends Eastminster Presbyterian Church), and Ambassador to UN Nikki Haley. Sonny Perdue, former governor of Georgia, was selected to be the Secretary of Agriculture.

I also didn't vote based on words that was said or even first believed of his conversion. I voted on promises of policies that fit my Biblical beliefs. So even though he may not be but a babe in Christ, his policies was wonderful.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Here is the link about Paula White, saying 'wherever she walks it becomes holy ground'--if she led Trump to Christ then he is not a Christian because a false teacher will never lead anyone to Christ--all that follow her instead are on their way to destruction:

https://pulpitandpen.org/2019/07/08/paula-white-says-wherever-she-steps-becomes-holy-ground/

Just as in the flood--there were few in number who escaped--even in our so called 'churches' there are so few true believers. These are the times we are in now:

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."--2 Timothy 4:3

Would you vote for Thomas Jefferson as president?

 

[Laura798]

Would you vote for Thomas Jefferson as president?

I don't understand the question--I have no idea if I would--I'd have to see what is positions were and I'd have to understand the times.

 

[Laura798]

Yes but look who he surrounded himself with from outward appearance and policies good Christians.

Vice-president elect Mike Pence, who stated, “My Christian faith is at the heart of who I am” and “I’m a Christian, a conservative and a Republican, in that order,” Chief of Staff Reince Preibus, Attorney General Jeff Sessions (who also moonlights as a Sunday school teacher at his family’s church), Housing and Urban Development’s Dr. Ben Carson, Education’s Betsy DeVos, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, EPA’s Scott Pruitt, CIA’s Mike Pompeo (whose family attends Eastminster Presbyterian Church), and Ambassador to UN Nikki Haley. Sonny Perdue, former governor of Georgia, was selected to be the Secretary of Agriculture.

I also didn't vote based on words that was said or even first believed of his conversion. I voted on promises of policies that fit my Biblical beliefs. So even though he may not be but a babe in Christ, his policies was wonderful.

I understand policies, but look at how it is for Christians now since he became President--we are reviled--people think we're idiots. And the media has come down hard on Christians--it's everywhere. and the reason it got so much worse for Christians I believe is because of Donald Trump.

I believe these politicians are Christians, but I don't believe Trump is. Furthermore, this forum is about how politics have infiltrated the church. We need to be good citizens, but politics and the church don't mix--we never see the apostles getting involved in politics. I believe Trump was using Christians. According to Michael Cohen' s book Trump (and Cohen himself) were terrible people. you can read some of the reviews on Amazon.

Disloyal, book about Trump

Michael Cohen's book about his years as Donald Trump's fixer is a clarion call to Christians to wake up; recognize the man many of them revere as a heavenly agent is a religious fraud; and act.

Trump loathes Christians and mocks their faith, but pretends to believe if it suits his purposes.

In Disloyal, published today, Cohen shows how Trump is a master deceiver. He quotes Trump calling Christianity and its religious practices "bull- --t," then soon after masterfully posing as a fervent believer. In truth, Cohen writes, Trump's religion is unbridled lust for money and power at any cost to others.

Cohen's insider stories add significant depth to my own documentation of Trump's repeated and public denouncements of Christians as "fools," "idiots" and "schmucks."

In extensive writing and speeches, Trump has declared his life philosophy is "revenge." That stance is aggressively anti-Christian. So are Trump's often publicly expressed desires to violently attack others, mostly women, and his many remarks that he derives pleasure from ruining the lives of people over such minor matters as declining to do him a favor.

Cohen describes himself as an "active participant" with Trump...

https://news.yahoo.com/really-thinks-trump-mocks-christians-100354053.html

One Amazon review:

"A decent book, but no real surprises. The writing is not bad, but it's really just one long example of what a sleaze Donald Trump is and how sleazy his associates are. Cohen tries to explain his descent to the role of head sycophant and eventual fall guy, but his explanation falls short. My guess would be that Cohen himself isn't completely clear on how that happened.

Like all things related to Donald Trump, the book is a disappointment. Reading about the sleazy world these people inhabit just left me feeling like I needed to take a shower, as if their nastiness had somehow rubbed off on me. If you somehow still need proof of the incompetence, greed and nastiness of Donald Trump, then this book should convince you. If you have been paying attention over the past four years, you can probably skip it."

https://www.amazon.com/product-revi...r&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I don't understand the question--I have no idea if I would--I'd have to see what is positions were and I'd have to understand the times.

The principal author of the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson was a proponent of democracy, republicanism, and individual rights.

The assumption being he was greatly influential to the creation of America.

But yet as a man of his times he did not hold orthodox Christian views but was still highly influenced by the Bible. He like George Washington both held slaves which both would over time try to free through new laws.

My point is knowing these men who contributed to building America we're not perfect but their actions promoted a better future for life, liberty, and ability to obtain happiness through prosperity.

Their actions paved the way for what we see today compared to places like China, Russia, Afghanistan, South America, Africa, and these socialist countries with extreme restrictions on freedom, many starting to be within the UN.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I understand policies, but look at how it is for Christians now since he became President--we are reviled--people think we're idiots. And the media has come down hard on Christians--it's everywhere. and the reason it got so much worse for Christians I believe is because of Donald Trump.

I believe these politicians are Christians, but I don't believe Trump is. Furthermore, this forum is about how politics have infiltrated the church. We need to be good citizens, but politics and the church don't mix--we never see the apostles getting involved in politics. I believe Trump was using Christians. According to Michael Cohen' s book Trump (and Cohen himself) were terrible people. you can read some of the reviews on Amazon.

Disloyal, book about Trump

Michael Cohen's book about his years as Donald Trump's fixer is a clarion call to Christians to wake up; recognize the man many of them revere as a heavenly agent is a religious fraud; and act.

Trump loathes Christians and mocks their faith, but pretends to believe if it suits his purposes.

In Disloyal, published today, Cohen shows how Trump is a master deceiver. He quotes Trump calling Christianity and its religious practices "bull- --t," then soon after masterfully posing as a fervent believer. In truth, Cohen writes, Trump's religion is unbridled lust for money and power at any cost to others.

Cohen's insider stories add significant depth to my own documentation of Trump's repeated and public denouncements of Christians as "fools," "idiots" and "schmucks."

In extensive writing and speeches, Trump has declared his life philosophy is "revenge." That stance is aggressively anti-Christian. So are Trump's often publicly expressed desires to violently attack others, mostly women, and his many remarks that he derives pleasure from ruining the lives of people over such minor matters as declining to do him a favor.

Cohen describes himself as an "active participant" with Trump...

https://news.yahoo.com/really-thinks-trump-mocks-christians-100354053.html

One Amazon review:

"A decent book, but no real surprises. The writing is not bad, but it's really just one long example of what a sleaze Donald Trump is and how sleazy his associates are. Cohen tries to explain his descent to the role of head sycophant and eventual fall guy, but his explanation falls short. My guess would be that Cohen himself isn't completely clear on how that happened.

Like all things related to Donald Trump, the book is a disappointment. Reading about the sleazy world these people inhabit just left me feeling like I needed to take a shower, as if their nastiness had somehow rubbed off on me. If you somehow still need proof of the incompetence, greed and nastiness of Donald Trump, then this book should convince you. If you have been paying attention over the past four years, you can probably skip it."

https://www.amazon.com/product-revi...r&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar

Why should I believe Cohen? Especially when so many other people have said the opposite.

I can tell you people have been going down hard on Christians for at least a decade but they have been doing through judges, laws, our schools, media and propaganda.

They only came out public once they realized we wasn't going to roll over and let it be.

 

[Laura798]

Why should I believe Cohen? Especially when so many other people have said the opposite.

I can tell you people have been going down hard on Christians for at least a decade but they have been doing through judges, laws, our schools, media and propaganda.

They only came out public once they realized we wasn't going to roll over and let it be.

Well, I'd say because he also implicates himself. My point is that Christians are deceived by Trump the same way people were by Hitler--of course I'm not saying Trump compares in anyway to Hitler, but I am saying in the sense that he is not a good person and yet so many 'Christians' have been hoodwinked by him and looking to him to save them--pointing back to the whole point of the forum.

 

[Laura798]

The principal author of the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson was a proponent of democracy, republicanism, and individual rights.

The assumption being he was greatly influential to the creation of America.

But yet as a man of his times he did not hold orthodox Christian views but was still highly influenced by the Bible. He like George Washington both held slaves which both would over time try to free through new laws.

My point is knowing these men who contributed to building America we're not perfect but their actions promoted a better future for life, liberty, and ability to obtain happiness through prosperity.

Their actions paved the way for what we see today compared to places like China, Russia, Afghanistan, South America, Africa, and these socialist countries with extreme restrictions on freedom, many starting to be within the UN.

We know our presidents are imperfect men, many who have done great good, but the purpose of this forum is not political--I believe Resident Alien started it because he sees the politicizing of Christianity problematic.

PS I knew Jefferson held slaves and the other thing that always bothered me is that he cut out parts of the bible he didn't like and created his own bible. https://www.christianitytoday.com/c...-biography-peter-manseau-religious-books.html

 

[Laura798]

The principal author of the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson was a proponent of democracy, republicanism, and individual rights.

The assumption being he was greatly influential to the creation of America.

But yet as a man of his times he did not hold orthodox Christian views but was still highly influenced by the Bible. He like George Washington both held slaves which both would over time try to free through new laws.

My point is knowing these men who contributed to building America we're not perfect but their actions promoted a better future for life, liberty, and ability to obtain happiness through prosperity.

Their actions paved the way for what we see today compared to places like China, Russia, Afghanistan, South America, Africa, and these socialist countries with extreme restrictions on freedom, many starting to be within the UN.

Excerpt from Christianity Today Article on Jefferson

A Hard Gospel
Jefferson, like many at the time, shed his orthodox Christianity in stages. He started by doubting the Trinity. Then Old Testament miracles. Then New. He eventually embraced a religious skepticism that was held in check only by the same force that compelled him to conceal the fact that he had fathered multiple children with his deceased wife’s enslaved half-sister: public opprobrium. What would people think?

Jefferson hid his infidelities to conform with the mores of his day even as he spoke about the importance of intellectual boldness, heralded revolutions big and small, and mulled the idea of editing the Gospels to, as he put it, “winnow this grain from its chaff.”

His first effort at revising the text came while he was president—in a 46-page booklet he called The Philosophy of Jesus. The volume has been lost to history, but at one point he explained the project in detail to his frenemy John Adams. He said he had extracted, reduced, and cut down the gospel until the only thing left was “the most sublime and benevolent code of morals that has ever been offered to man.”

It was an easy process, Jefferson said. He cut the text up verse by verse, and the good parts stuck out “as diamonds in a dung hill.”
It wasn’t until 1820, more than a decade out of office, when he finished the fuller second version of his edited gospel. He called it The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth. He read from it devoutly, Manseau says, until he died in 1826.

But the Jefferson Bible may have proved the opposite of what Jefferson intended. It doesn’t show Jesus to be a great moral teacher once his story is stripped of the miracles, exorcisms, and other acts that the former president found hard to believe. It presents Jesus rather as someone who didn’t do anything. As Manseau writes, “Jefferson’s is a hard gospel. The blind to not see; the lame do not walk; the multitudes will remain hungry if loaves and fishes must be multiplied to feed them. Even those who look to Jesus for forgiveness of sins are left wanting.”

 

[JTB]

nothing in that image represents Jesus.

My point exactly

 

[ewq1938]

https://www.christianpost.com/news/6-interesting-facts-about-donald-trumps-christian-faith.html

Many political experts will not take Donald Trump's quest for the Republican presidential nomination seriously, possibly for good reason. Trump, most notable for his vast real estate empire, wealth, bankruptcies, reality TV show, high profile divorces, and of late, his brash political statements, professes to be a Christian. As The Christian Post reported Tuesday, he even claims he would be "the greatest jobs president God ever created."

While Trump might not be popular with a large segment of the Republican Party, many voters no longer feel connected to Washington or what they see as a professional and entrenched political class. With his populist streak, Trump may appeal to these voters. Below are six facts about Donald Trump and his professed Christian faith.

1. Speaking to CBN News in May, Donald Trump declared: "I will be the greatest representative of the Christians they've had in a long time."

Specifically, Trump was talking about the Christians being slaughtered in the Middle East, especially in Syria, and according to him, Christians around the globe do not have anybody representing them. Trump also claimed it was easier for Muslims to come to the U.S. than persecuted Christians.

2. Trump says he's Presbyterian and previously attended services with the Reformed Church of America denomination.

Trump told Human Events and other news outlets that he is "a believer." In 2011, he told CBN he attended First Presbyterian Church in Jamaica Queens, which is part of the Presbyterian U.S.A. denomination. Some past articles and interviews have listed Trump as a member of the Reformed Church of America, but more recently he has said he is Presbyterian. He says he goes to church on Sunday when he can and always on Christmas, Easter, and on special occasions.

3. After previously making statements favorable toward the right to abortion, Trump now claims to be pro-life.

While Trump has a long track record of making statements and supporting candidates who were pro-abortion, he credits a friend's experience with not wanting a baby and then adoring that baby as a big reason for his shift on abortion. In January, Trump explained his position on abortion, where he allowed for limited exceptions to terminate a pregnancy and talked about his traditional views on same-sex marriage, which he said at the moment "is a state's rights' issue." In the past, Trump has said he "took a lot of heat" for being opposed to same-sex marriage.

4. When asked by Bill O'Reilly if there was a "Muslim problem in the world," Trump answered "yes."

In a 2011 interview, Trump added, "absolutely, absolutely, I don't notice Swedish people knocking down the World Trade Center." Trump backed up his statement later saying, "We have to speak the truth, this country is so politically correct, and it's falling apart."

5. Donald Trump has called the Bible "The Book, it is the thing."

In fact, he collects Bibles because he claims so many people send him Bibles. Trump says he saves and stores them because, "There's no way I would do anything negative to a Bible."

6. Trump has praised evangelical leaders Tony Perkins and Ralph Reed, saying "they have great reputations."

In 2011 Trump declared, "I recently spoke to Ralph Reed and Tony Perkins and I was really impressed, they have great reputations and I have been hearing about them for years." He added that they were "smart people."