Why The Father has no beginning from the context of time
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Created beings (humans and angels) cannot be created eternal because they can break the law of God out of their free will like the Devil before the Fall of Adam, God did that so this could be revoked in case they sinned. A human being or an angel will remain in life eternal as long as they obey the law of God, doing the opposite of that is death. Total separation from God.
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Yes, God knew the Mountain I live on but it had a beginning (I don't live on a mountain, just making a point).
Angels were created, all things crated had a beginning, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are Eternal, the opposite of God is eternal, this is why I tell everyone Satan is not eternal, but that which seduced him is, I think the Anti-Christ SPIRT is eternal also, and just means the opposite of God.
Thus when Satan said I want to be like unto the most high, he heeded the anti-christ/God spirit.
Angels were created, all things crated had a beginning, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are Eternal, the opposite of God is eternal, this is why I tell everyone Satan is not eternal, but that which seduced him is, I think the Anti-Christ SPIRT is eternal also, and just means the opposite of God.
Thus when Satan said I want to be like unto the most high, he heeded the anti-christ/God spirit.
have you noticed that he brought out bread and wine to Abraham when he blessed him ? Seems a figure for communion
I’ve heard that he is Jesus before , my own opinion is that he is an Old Testament figure of Christ. And not the reality of him.
“The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. …The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.”
Psalm 110:1, 4 KJV
“For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest: (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.”
Hebrews 7:14-22, 24-28
I don’t know if he actually” is “ mechezidek but the way I’m reading it he was made a priest after the similitude of melchezidek
I believe that Jesus is God and became high priest for us in melchezideks order and similitude , he would in my own thinking be a figure of the Christ in the ot
but honestly I mean this you could be right he could actually be Jesus , it’s pretty deep concept either way I think the importance is that Jesus our high priest in melchezideks order is not priest of the law but of the gospel
the covenant promising eternal life !!
I’ve heard that he is Jesus before , my own opinion is that he is an Old Testament figure of Christ. And not the reality of him.
“The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. …The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.”
Psalm 110:1, 4 KJV
“For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest: (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.”
Hebrews 7:14-22, 24-28
I don’t know if he actually” is “ mechezidek but the way I’m reading it he was made a priest after the similitude of melchezidek
I believe that Jesus is God and became high priest for us in melchezideks order and similitude , he would in my own thinking be a figure of the Christ in the ot
but honestly I mean this you could be right he could actually be Jesus , it’s pretty deep concept either way I think the importance is that Jesus our high priest in melchezideks order is not priest of the law but of the gospel
the covenant promising eternal life !!
In Zechariah we see Jesus Yeshua vividly in Heaven.
His mission is given Him in this chapter also.
Even the men of renown, the Apostles, are foretold here.
The entire story of Him on the Cross is in Psalms. Also in Psalms we read of His betrayal. These manifestations are the only ones of many which come to my mind at present.
God will be What He will be and the mystery of this is yet to be made plainly understood by us all, yet we believe because of His very personal gift of faith. Keep up the good works and keep up the edification of all. This would include yours truly. God bless you.
Reading on in this chapter we learn He will be calle the Branch. He was a Nazar or Nazaire. Nazare is a branch.
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yes the psalms and also prophets foretell the mystery of Christ and those mysteries are fulfilled in the New Testament
“In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The Lord our righteousness. For thus saith the Lord; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;”
Jeremiah 33:15-17 KJV
“And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.”
Luke 1:31-33 KJV
“Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, ….Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ,( the psalms ) that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
Acts 2:29-36 KJV
there is a progression the early scriptures have figures of Christ not being understood until we look back at them through the revelations of God in the New Testament
as for edification brother I believe it comes when we come together in peace sharing what each of us has to offer and we let christs word rule the heart and mutual edification always is produced
“And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
Colossians 3:15-16
God bless and full you with a measure of Wisdom and knowledge of his Will in our Lord Jesus Christ !!
“In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The Lord our righteousness. For thus saith the Lord; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;”
Jeremiah 33:15-17 KJV
“And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.”
Luke 1:31-33 KJV
“Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, ….Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ,( the psalms ) that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
Acts 2:29-36 KJV
there is a progression the early scriptures have figures of Christ not being understood until we look back at them through the revelations of God in the New Testament
as for edification brother I believe it comes when we come together in peace sharing what each of us has to offer and we let christs word rule the heart and mutual edification always is produced
“And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
Colossians 3:15-16
God bless and full you with a measure of Wisdom and knowledge of his Will in our Lord Jesus Christ !!
have you considered this thought
“Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old.
Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.”
Isaiah 43:18-19 KJV
“I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.
Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them. They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.”
Isaiah 48:3, 6-7
“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
Isaiah 65:17
“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
…Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
2 Peter 3:7, 10, 13 KJV
there really are two creations in the Bible the one we exist in now in the flesh and the one promosed after we part the flesh the eternal world. Even a new earth to come ruled by Gods Will and not sin !!!
so there may be two beginnings considered
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. …And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.”
Genesis 1:1, 3-4 KJV
and then the beginning of the new
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”
John 1:1-5 KJV
so we would see this
“The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
Isaiah 24:20 KJV
And then This
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying,
Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain:
for the former things are passed away.
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
Revelation 21:1-5 KJV
“Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old.
Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.”
Isaiah 43:18-19 KJV
“I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.
Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them. They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.”
Isaiah 48:3, 6-7
“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
Isaiah 65:17
“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
…Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
2 Peter 3:7, 10, 13 KJV
there really are two creations in the Bible the one we exist in now in the flesh and the one promosed after we part the flesh the eternal world. Even a new earth to come ruled by Gods Will and not sin !!!
so there may be two beginnings considered
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. …And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.”
Genesis 1:1, 3-4 KJV
and then the beginning of the new
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”
John 1:1-5 KJV
so we would see this
“The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
Isaiah 24:20 KJV
And then This
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying,
Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain:
for the former things are passed away.
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
Revelation 21:1-5 KJV
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Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer.
There is no time that exists eternally for it is not a universal principle but time only refers to this creation from beginning to end to mark events that happen.
And the sun is the measuring tool for time for it marks a day which is built up to weeks, months, and years, and broke down to seconds, and minutes, and hours.
Before God there is no time for all things go on the same with no change, and after this creation ends at the new heaven and earth there is no time for all things go on the same with no change.
There is no events to mark with the new creation.
There is no time that exists eternally for it is not a universal principle but time only refers to this creation from beginning to end to mark events that happen.
And the sun is the measuring tool for time for it marks a day which is built up to weeks, months, and years, and broke down to seconds, and minutes, and hours.
Before God there is no time for all things go on the same with no change, and after this creation ends at the new heaven and earth there is no time for all things go on the same with no change.
There is no events to mark with the new creation.
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yet time is still measured by months
“In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.”
Revelation 22:2 KJV
“In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.”
Revelation 22:2 KJV
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Mayes I don’t know honestly I’ve always thought like you that place is beyond time and measuring it i just noticed that verse when studying Ezekiels perception of it
“And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.”
Ezekiel 47:12 KJV
I was studying the contemporary visions of the city John sees and future heaven and earth he promises and noted the passing of months
“And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.”
Ezekiel 47:12 KJV
I was studying the contemporary visions of the city John sees and future heaven and earth he promises and noted the passing of months
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“For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.”
Isaiah 66:22-24 KJV
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.”
Isaiah 66:22-24 KJV
This would have to be during the millennial reign of Christ for people will not see the carcasses of men at the new earth.
The Bible says after the battle of Armageddon when God fights the world and saves Israel that the heathen have to up year after year to worship God and keep the feast of tabernacles.
Also no flesh can be in heaven and it says all flesh shall worship the Lord.
The Bible says after the battle of Armageddon when God fights the world and saves Israel that the heathen have to up year after year to worship God and keep the feast of tabernacles.
Also no flesh can be in heaven and it says all flesh shall worship the Lord.
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“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.
And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
Isaiah 65:18, 20-25
But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.
And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
Isaiah 65:18, 20-25
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Well, I think it is hard to explain, we are kind of studying prophecy with very little context.
When the text says "they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases" I don't think it means they will just need to get out around anywhere on the new earth to see this, but that we can go to the lake of fire, and there we could see the reality of the judgement, with the carcasses of the rebels.
Rev 20:13-15
13- The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works.
14- Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15- If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
It looks like this lake of fire is not on the new earth, since death is no more on the new earth, and clearly this lake of fire "is the second death".
Rev 21:4
4- He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more. The first things have passed away.”
Conclusion : I do not believe that we will see carcasses of men everywhere on the new earth, but somehow there will be somewhere the lake of fire where all of this will be (it looks like this lake is not on the new earth, but somewhere else, somehow).
However, clearly is still happening after the new earth is made, since this (the second death) is after the final judgment.
Indeed, it is said :
Rev 20:5
5- The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished.
But Rev 20:13-15, final judgment, is talking about all the dead, therefore this is after the thousand years are finished.
When the text says "they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases" I don't think it means they will just need to get out around anywhere on the new earth to see this, but that we can go to the lake of fire, and there we could see the reality of the judgement, with the carcasses of the rebels.
Rev 20:13-15
13- The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works.
14- Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15- If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
It looks like this lake of fire is not on the new earth, since death is no more on the new earth, and clearly this lake of fire "is the second death".
Rev 21:4
4- He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more. The first things have passed away.”
Conclusion : I do not believe that we will see carcasses of men everywhere on the new earth, but somehow there will be somewhere the lake of fire where all of this will be (it looks like this lake is not on the new earth, but somewhere else, somehow).
However, clearly is still happening after the new earth is made, since this (the second death) is after the final judgment.
Indeed, it is said :
Rev 20:5
5- The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished.
But Rev 20:13-15, final judgment, is talking about all the dead, therefore this is after the thousand years are finished.
Here is something which is relevant to the eternality of God and Christ:
Most Americans, many Christians don't believe Jesus existed before the manger
"The average person isn’t quite as sure about the Son of God’s existence prior to Jesus’ birth. Around 2 in 5 (41%) say God’s son existed before Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Close to 1 in 3 Americans (32%) disagree, and 28 percent say they’re not sure."
https://www.christianitytoday.com/n...ce=wnd&utm_medium=wnd&utm_campaign=syndicated
Most Americans, many Christians don't believe Jesus existed before the manger
"The average person isn’t quite as sure about the Son of God’s existence prior to Jesus’ birth. Around 2 in 5 (41%) say God’s son existed before Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Close to 1 in 3 Americans (32%) disagree, and 28 percent say they’re not sure."
https://www.christianitytoday.com/n...ce=wnd&utm_medium=wnd&utm_campaign=syndicated