Does One Receive the Holy Ghost the Moment they Believe in Jesus?

[Wansvic]

What do you mean by using a singular name? I have not come across that. which scripture should I consult? Please clarify before I attempt to answer your question.

In addition to my earlier response to your question. I feel compelled to share what Paul told the Corinthians about use of Jesus' name in water baptism:

"Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name." 1 Cor 1:12-15

 

[lamad]

This is purely a Pentecostal doctrine, which has confused the fulness or filling of the Holy Spirit, with the baptism with the Spirit (not "in" the Holy Spirit).

The fulness of the Spirit means total control of that person by the Holy Spirit, and not necessarily speaking in tongues. We see the phrase "full of the Holy Ghost" many times in the NT, but none of those people spoke in tongues. That was a unique experience on the day of Pentecost as applied to the apostles and the disciples.

The baptism with the Holy Spirit is in fact the gift of the Holy Spirit.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

This corresponds to the outpouring of the Spirit on the Gentiles gathered in the house of Cornelius: And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 10:45) Now in this case these Gentiles spoke in tongues as a sign to the Jews (who were gathered there) that they too had received the gift of the Holy Spirit. But that was not the norm. In Acts 2, none of those 3,000 Jews spoke in tongues, although they had heard the apostles speaking in at least 15 languages and dialects. That too was a sign to unbelieving Jews.

Nehemiah6, I am convinced the scriptures disagree with you: your first two verses, 4 & 5, are talking about the the Holy Spirit WITHIN, which is always distinct from the Holy Spirit UPON which is the anointing. The Holy Spirit within comes with regeneration - in fact is the power of regeneration, while the Holy Spirit up is performed by Jesus Christ as the anointing. Acts 2, Acts 8, and Acts 19 show us plainly that this baptism in the Holy Spirit—the Holy Spirit UPON—comes AFTER one is born again as a second definite act of God."

When baptized in water, one gets wet - the property of water.
When baptized in the Holy Spirit, one gets POWER - the property of the Holy Spirit.

When one is baptized in water, the water is on the OUTSIDE or "UPON."
When one is baptized in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is "ON" or "UPON."

Luke was very careful to show us this over and over. Is this the "Pentecostal" view? It is the book of Acts view.

 

[infinitekhanol]

In addition to my earlier response to your question. I feel compelled to share what Paul told the Corinthians about use of Jesus' name in water baptism:

"Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name." 1 Cor 1:12-15

This does not answer my question. I said you should clarify what you meant that Jesus said to be baptised in a singular name. Where in the scripture did he say that?

Our discussion is not on whether it is right or wrong to baptise in the name of Jesus.

 

[Wansvic]

This does not answer my question. I said you should clarify what you meant that Jesus said to be baptised in a singular name. Where in the scripture did he say that?

Our discussion is not on whether it is right or wrong to baptise in the name of Jesus.

I answered your question in Post #180. Post #181 was an additional comment the pointed to the truth as well.

 

[infinitekhanol]

I answered your question in Post #180. Post #181 was an additional comment the pointed to the truth as well.

OK. I missed it.

 

[Wansvic]

Have to take a break. Will be back on line later.

 

[SophieT]

on the issue of Baptism by immersion, I have stated my understanding of the scripture and that will suffix.

Well, Jesus is not the name of the Father, Son and the holy Ghost, but the name of the Son of God. Of course, in him dwellest all the fulness of the Godhead bodily as the scripture stated. Even though Jesus Christ is God, the name Jesus is reserved for the Son and not the Father or the Holy Ghost.

wansvic does not believe in the Trinity

he is Oneness Pentecostal

 

[SophieT]

This is an example of not rightly dividing the word of truth.

that would be your territory as a person who believes water baptism washes away sin

only the blood of Christ washes away sin

God did not send down a bar of soap. He sent His only sin to die in our place so that we could have our sins forgiven

yet you consistently deny this and claim water is necessary instead

 

[SophieT]

Refusing to accept what is specifically presented from the word is not wise. Doctrine is not to be formulated from one scripture.

smh

if you were not indoctrinated in Oneness beliefs, you would see the truth and the truth would set you free

 

[SophieT]

What one believes is of no consequence. What is, is what is confirmed by the word. All will be judged by it, and I for one am going to continue to shout it from the rooftops if need be. Keep in mind that the word cautions all to avoid relying on traditions of men. (Colossians 2:8)

it is alarming that you now deny faith when the Bible is clear we are saved by faith in Christ

yet you say it does not matter what you believe

you deny biblical doctrine and deny Christ who shed His blood for us

water does not save us no matter how much you sadly think that it does

 

[SophieT]

Refusing to accept what is specifically presented from the word is not wise. Doctrine is not to be formulated from one scripture.

doctrine is also not formed from twisting scripture as does the Oneness cult

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
Matthew 28

 

[SophieT]

I said that wansvic consistently confuses the Holy Spirit with water baptism and he came back with this:

Wansvic said:
This is a perception of yours.
well, it is not an opinion or a perception...anyone can read all of his comments on water baptism in this thread

his comments such as: people refuse to accept God's word (after Oneness Pentecostals have corrected it)
clearly you have a problem understanding etc

and other similar comments on the person rather than the scripture presented, are the way wansvic will try to dodge any scripture that clearly indicates the errors on Oneness teaching

 

[HatedForNoReason]

No. The sinful nature is NOT eradicated. Kindly read the epistles again. And believing is indeed enough. See the words of Christ in John 11:25,26. As to "the elect" God wants the whole world to be saved (John 3:17). So everyone could be among the elect, if all would believe.

Mark 7:6
New King James Version

6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.

Jeremiah 7:8-10
King James Version

8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.
9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not;
10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...games-and-computer-games-are-all-sins.199859/

 

[HatedForNoReason]

History gets repeated.

Most people believe a false gospel=a false Christ that is ok with their sins and there is no change in their nature. Where they go to church to justify themselves before God, like Catholics. Than sin like a demon the rest of the week and repeat.

-------------------------------------------

The sinful nature is eradicated when born again, if you are one of God's elect.

 

[infinitekhanol]

Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

For your convenience, the following are the actual scriptures associated with people being water baptized:

Acts 2:38-39 (Jewish) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 8:12-17 (Samaritans-half jewish-half gentile)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:44-48 (Gentiles) This scripture specifically confirms baptism in the name of the Lord is actually water baptism.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples who did not realize they had to water baptized in Jesus name)
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 22:14-16 (Paul's water baptism)
And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Oh, that's what you meant ----- being baptized in the NAME of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Well, my understanding of this scripture is quite different from yours.

First, I am very much aware that the Apostles baptized in the name of Jesus and in the name of the Lord Jesus. During the great Commission, Jesus told them to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Your understanding of the use of the NAME in this context is a bit way off for me. It does not mean they must use a particular name. The instruction is pretty clear.

Preaching of the Word precedes baptism. Therefore, before baptism, the candidate for baptism is aware and have knowledge of who God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are, as persons in the Trinity. It is not about a singular name if I may borrow your word. I am reiterating here that it does not matter whether one has a Trinitarian baptism in the name of the father, the Son and the Holy Ghost or is baptized in the name of Jesus. The symbolic meaning of baptism remains the same.

You asked in your previous post that I explain why the Apostles consistently baptized in the name of Jesus. My understanding is this:

1. before Jesus gave them the great Commission, he told them, all power and authority both in heaven and on earth have been given unto me (MT 28:18). It then means that when they baptize in the name of Jesus, they are baptizing with this authority and power of the Lord Jesus, which also means the power and authority of the Father.

2.In baptism, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost must be present. The baptism of Jesus sets the standard. Baptizing in the name of Jesus does not negate this standard. Jesus asked Phillip, how can you say, show us the father? he that has seen me, has seen the Father. (John 14:9) Believe you not that I am in the Father and the Father in me? (John 14:10). He says also in John 10:30 that I and my father are one. Understanding the unity of the Deity (of God) will erase any confusion or misunderstanding one may have concerning this aspect of baptism.

3. Therefore, whether you are baptizing in the name of Jesus or doing a Trinitarian baptism, it is the same. The issue of our dying with him in baptism and raised with him --------------- shows the significant of baptism and does not portray the fact that water baptism must be done only in the name of Jesus.

 

[Wansvic]

it is alarming that you now deny faith when the Bible is clear we are saved by faith in Christ

yet you say it does not matter what you believe

you deny biblical doctrine and deny Christ who shed His blood for us

water does not save us no matter how much you sadly think that it does

Your distortion of what I say is an obvious attempt at deflection. Again as I said, "What one believes is of no consequence. What is, is what is confirmed by the word. All will be judged by it..."

 

[Wansvic]

doctrine is also not formed from twisting scripture as does the Oneness cult

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
Matthew 28

What Jesus meant when He said to baptize in the name of... is confirmed, not by one or two, but by every single detailed water baptism recorded in the word. Significant? Yes. Since the word assures individual's of correct understanding through the confirmation by at least 2-3 scriptures.

 

[Wansvic]

Oh, that's what you meant ----- being baptized in the NAME of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Well, my understanding of this scripture is quite different from yours.

First, I am very much aware that the Apostles baptized in the name of Jesus and in the name of the Lord Jesus. During the great Commission, Jesus told them to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Your understanding of the use of the NAME in this context is a bit way off for me. It does not mean they must use a particular name. The instruction is pretty clear.

Preaching of the Word precedes baptism. Therefore, before baptism, the candidate for baptism is aware and have knowledge of who God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are, as persons in the Trinity. It is not about a singular name if I may borrow your word. I am reiterating here that it does not matter whether one has a Trinitarian baptism in the name of the father, the Son and the Holy Ghost or is baptized in the name of Jesus. The symbolic meaning of baptism remains the same.

You asked in your previous post that I explain why the Apostles consistently baptized in the name of Jesus. My understanding is this:

1. before Jesus gave them the great Commission, he told them, all power and authority both in heaven and on earth have been given unto me (MT 28:18). It then means that when they baptize in the name of Jesus, they are baptizing with this authority and power of the Lord Jesus, which also means the power and authority of the Father.

2.In baptism, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost must be present. The baptism of Jesus sets the standard. Baptizing in the name of Jesus does not negate this standard. Jesus asked Phillip, how can you say, show us the father? he that has seen me, has seen the Father. (John 14:9) Believe you not that I am in the Father and the Father in me? (John 14:10). He says also in John 10:30 that I and my father are one. Understanding the unity of the Deity (of God) will erase any confusion or misunderstanding one may have concerning this aspect of baptism.

3. Therefore, whether you are baptizing in the name of Jesus or doing a Trinitarian baptism, it is the same. The issue of our dying with him in baptism and raised with him --------------- shows the significant of baptism and does not portray the fact that water baptism must be done only in the name of Jesus.

Are you aware that forerunners of the Roman Catholic Church mandated the removal of the use of the name of Jesus in water baptism and enforced the use of the phrase in 325 A.D.? The attached image shared by a former member of the Catholic Church, shows an acknowledgement of the change. Sadly churches are oblivious to the fact they are following a man-made tradition not what is clearly confirmed in God's word.

 

[SophieT]

History gets repeated.

Most people believe a false gospel=a false Christ that is ok with their sins and there is no change in their nature. Where they go to church to justify themselves before God, like Catholics. Than sin like a demon the rest of the week and repeat.

-------------------------------------------

The sinful nature is eradicated when born again, if you are one of God's elect.

huh

you know this personally because you are a legend in your own mind?

 

[SophieT]

What Jesus meant when He said to baptize in the name of... is confirmed, not by one or two, but by every single detailed water baptism recorded in the word. Significant? Yes. Since the word assures individual's of correct understanding through the confirmation by at least 2-3 scriptures.

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
Matthew 28

you are not qualified to say 'what Jesus meant'. were you there? you should treat the word with more respect