Does One Receive the Holy Ghost the Moment they Believe in Jesus?

[Aaron56]

We are learning to reconcile the time Jesus said "Receive the Spirit" and the time He told them to wait for the Spirit they supposedly already received. These are important distinctions. I am explaining what is a mystery to some. Certainly, the Lord may baptize anyone upon conversion. The order does not matter. Knowing the difference between the Baptism of the Spirit and the Baptism by the Spirit ARE important matters.

Believers have the indwelling of the Spirit that testifies with God's Spirit that they are the children of God. Yet, many people lack the baptism of the Spirit that affords them power from on high to deal with their spiritual enemies. This is why much of the church is powerless today. Blindness and ignorance of this allows Baptists (and others) to criticize the misuse of spiritual gifts without feeling the conviction of the need for power from the Holy Spirit. The enemy is content to allow them to curse others while remaining locked up in the high tower of self-importance.

Baptism by the Spirit, whereby the Spirit does the work, establishes the believer firmly within the Body of Christ and seals their destiny in the Lord. They know they are the Father's and that their life is in Christ. This is a change of identity.

Baptism with the Spirit, whereby Jesus Christ does the work, imbues the believer with power from on high to equip them against the spiritual forces of evil. It also allows them to overthrow the enemy in others where he has established a foothold. This is a change of authority and power.

 

[Wansvic]

In the example you provided, they received the baptism of the Spirit immediately upon conversion. That, I believe, was for Peter's benefit but the Lord still does this today.

You have to consider all the experiences together to get the whole picture. Without doing so we get bad doctrine.

I'm in no way trying to be argumentative. Just providing scripture that should be considered in light of what you believe regarding the gift and the baptism of the Holy Ghost being distinct experience from one another. In the Samaritan account, as well, Peter stated that their receiving of the Holy Ghost was the gift of God.

Acts 8:18-20
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

 

[Aaron56]

I'm in no way trying to be argumentative. Just providing scripture that should be considered in light of what you believe regarding the gift and the baptism of the Holy Ghost being distinct experience from one another. In the Samaritan account, as well, Peter stated that their receiving of the Holy Ghost was the gift of God.

Acts 8:18-20
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Both are gifts. No argument from me, brother.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Your statement that the gift and the Spirit baptism are two distinct experiences does not line up with what the word states in the Acts 10 account. As stated there the gift and the baptism of the Holy Ghost are one in the same:

Acts 10:45-46
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

no that’s not whats there there are clearly two experiences but you cut one out

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.


Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they received the spirit first and then immediately after they got baptized in water for remission. Water baptism is for remitting our sins in Christs death. receiving The spirit is being born into Christs resurrection and eternal
Life.

sin is about flesh so we have to act I. Faith and get baptized for remission based on the belief that his word is true saying if we get baptized he will remit our sins. Any believer of that will go get baptized in water. Receiving The spirit comes because we believe remission of sins because we repent and get baptized

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

one baptism , two functions

 

[Blade]

Acts chapter 8 provides insight on the topic. Notice the group believed the gospel message presented by Philip, and were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. It was only after Peter and John came and laid hands on them that they actually received the Holy Ghost.

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost."

Some will talk about the LAW and stick with Matt-John. Yet the sweet holy Spirit.. and Luke 11 13. Then He instructed them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to await the promise of the Father: "That which you heard of Me;". The we know about the "have you received the holy Spirit since you believed. I was saved.. they asked me that same question. I said yes.. they read the word then prayed a very short prayer then stopped saying you got it. I get up go to sit down and TONGUES just came out. Was I the same as I was the say before? Oh praise GOD GLORY TO JESUS no. It was like night and day! He said But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

So.. I had to ask. .. I just did what Christ said in Luke 11 13. I don't care what any man says. If YOU do this.. the same will happen. I am NOT here to say TONGUES is proof. See I had no control over that. Its just what came out. I was not trying to talk.. no one was saying a word. See they just believed what Christ said. If He said ask.. and God will do.. thats its. I don't care what it sounds like feels like what man says.. I will just blindly believe. And His word to me is true still "WHEN Have I ever failed you".. yeah NEVER

 

[Pureness]

Everyone experience with Jesus is not going to be the same.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Some will talk about the LAW and stick with Matt-John. Yet the sweet holy Spirit.. and Luke 11 13. Then He instructed them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to await the promise of the Father: "That which you heard of Me;". The we know about the "have you received the holy Spirit since you believed. I was saved.. they asked me that same question. I said yes.. they read the word then prayed a very short prayer then stopped saying you got it. I get up go to sit down and TONGUES just came out. Was I the same as I was the say before? Oh praise GOD GLORY TO JESUS no. It was like night and day! He said But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

So.. I had to ask. .. I just did what Christ said in Luke 11 13. I don't care what any man says. If YOU do this.. the same will happen. I am NOT here to say TONGUES is proof. See I had no control over that. Its just what came out. I was not trying to talk.. no one was saying a word. See they just believed what Christ said. If He said ask.. and God will do.. thats its. I don't care what it sounds like feels like what man says.. I will just blindly believe. And His word to me is true still "WHEN Have I ever failed you".. yeah NEVER

amen a really great and simple testimony of what faith is it’s always been the same

“And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God the creators word is creation it cannot fail he speaks and it is so Same when he speaks to a man who believes and acts

“And the Lord said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.

And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God said it and it is so , and then we come to Jesus word he speaks and it is so …. To the elements of creation

“And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still.

And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭4:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To a dead man

“And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:43-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to the spirits

“So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to the chief apostle

“Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee. But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest……. And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.

….Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.

And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:69-70, 72, 74-75‬ ‭KJV‬‬

his word is infallibly true and his promises are sure and irrevocable if we stick to the word he spoke and promises he actually made and conditions he set it’s always going to work the same

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Everyone experience with Jesus is not going to be the same.

We’re all at different stages of our experiences . it’s going to always be maturing toward him and away from sin though

 

[Pureness]

I think the Holy ghost is a bit too much for "me" but I've seen people get the Holy gohst

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I think the Holy ghost is a bit too much for "me" but I've seen people get the Holy gohst

What do you mean too much for you ?

 

[Pureness]

What do you mean too much for you ?

I'm guessing the Holy ghost is when people jump and shout and praise god. I'm a more silent praiser.

 

[Evmur]

Paul's question to the Ephesians was "Have you received the Holy Ghost since they believed? Believed what? Believed in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus. After Paul tells them about Jesus they comply with his instruction to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, (water) and he lays hands on them and they receive the Holy Ghost. (Spirit) These actions line up exactly with what Jesus said was necessary in order for a person to be reborn. (John 3:3-5) And what was conveyed on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:38)

To my knowledge nowhere is it suggested that individuals are indwelt with the Holy Ghost the moment they believe in Jesus' sacrifice. However, scripture does indicate that the gospel message includes the need to believe in Jesus' sacrifice as well as man's responsibility to repent, get water baptized, and be indwelt. Those who believe that message will be obedient to God's plan and actually receive the indwelling by the Holy Ghost at some point. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) Also relevant is the fact that a majority of the records mention that the indwelling of the Holy Ghost was evidenced by speaking in tongues.

According to the word being indwelt by the Holy Ghost is required of all. (Romans 8:9-11) Taking this into consideration we know that the Ephesian disciples were in fact lost until they met this requirement and others presented by the Apostle Paul. (Acts 19:1-6) Sadly, if not, they would have heard those dreaded words "I never knew you." (Matthew 7:23)

Peter did not preach that to Cornelius ... do you believe Peter's gospel?

 

[Aaron56]

I'm guessing the Holy ghost is when people jump and shout and praise god. I'm a more silent praiser.

There was a certain man preaching about the baptism of the Holy Spirit, how it was for all the children of God for the empowerment that was required to walk out their destiny in Christ. After the sermon, a woman approached him.

”I grew up in the Church of Christ where we did not believe the gifts are still for today but listening to you made me believe that I need the baptism of the Spirit. How can I receive something that I’m not sure I believe in?” she asked.

”Well”, the man explained, “You are experiencing the conviction of the Holy Spirit. If you ask me, I can lay my hand on you and ask the Lord to give you the baptism of the Holy Spirit.”

She looked relieved but then something else crossed over her face, “You know, I’ve only ever seen people who claim to have the Spirit jump and dance around. They look foolish. I don’t want to look foolish.”

The man chuckled, “I assure you that the Lord is not interested in putting on a show for anyone. You believe it, now you want to receive it. As a believer it is a gift freely given to you.”

”Then I want to receive it,“ she said.

”Okay,” the man replied, I am going to put my hand on your head and pray. You may do whatever you want after that.”

”Okay.”

The man put his hand on her head and began praying, “Lord, Debrah has asked for the baptism of the Spirit. As one of your children she knows that this is something you have prepared for her as a gift. I ask you to give her this baptism to fulfill her request from a pure heart.”

Immediately the woman opened her eyes and she took in a deep breath like she was surprised. “Praise the Lord! Oh my goodness, praise the Lord!” She took the man’s hand, “I believe, I believe! Praise the Lord!”

That was as raucous as it got. She stayed, praising the Lord quietly after the meeting wound down and people were beginning to leave. Eventually, she had to be asked to leave so they could lock the building. Her life was changed that day, it was explained that “The Holy Spirit became a real person and not just someone I knew was real.” She and the certain man still connect with each other to this day.

 

[lawrence101]

no that’s not whats there there are clearly two experiences but you cut one out

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.


Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they received the spirit first and then immediately after they got baptized in water for remission. Water baptism is for remitting our sins in Christs death. receiving The spirit is being born into Christs resurrection and eternal
Life.

sin is about flesh so we have to act I. Faith and get baptized for remission based on the belief that his word is true saying if we get baptized he will remit our sins. Any believer of that will go get baptized in water. Receiving The spirit comes because we believe remission of sins because we repent and get baptized

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

one baptism , two functions

That verse in John 3:5 is not referring to water baptism. Jesus was answering Nicodemus' question concerning being born again. Nicodemus asked "how can a man be born a second time when he is old ? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born ?" Verse 6 clarifies this "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." Jesus was referring to the natural birth as being born of water not baptism in water.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I'm guessing the Holy ghost is when people jump and shout and praise god. I'm a more silent praiser.

oh so like the holy rollers type show ? Yeah I don’t but that type of thing either thanks for explaining

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That verse in John 3:5 is not referring to water baptism. Jesus was answering Nicodemus' question concerning being born again. Nicodemus asked "how can a man be born a second time when he is old ? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born ?" Verse 6 clarifies this "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." Jesus was referring to the natural birth as being born of water not baptism in water.

“Jesus was answering Nicodemus' question concerning being born again. Nicodemus asked "how can a man be born a second time when he is old ?”

yeah your argument there doesn’t really hold water

he explicitly names the birth of water and the birth of the spirit. There’s not a single scriptire that says receiving the Holy Spirit remits sin but many saying water baptism does.

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered,

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

how does verse six take away the prior ? I don’t really see it that way. Why did everyone in scripture get baptized in water for remission of sins I wonder ?

and why does Peter command them to be baptized in water after they had already received the spirit ?

this is an example of people born of water and the spirit they are born of the spirit and then they are commanded to be baptized in water

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I personally think your interpretation of John three there is off , but that’s only
My own thought I think clearly in scripture it’s repetitively shows receiving the Holy Spirit and getting baptized in water have to seperate purposes

I would think of water baptism became irrelevant there would be something relatively clear saying that but rather there’s a lot of clear scripture saying to do it for remission of sins as God promised long ago .

the Holy Spirit doesn’t remit anyone’s sin if you can find those verses though I’d be willing to accept them .

I just don’t think they exist anyways , again that’s just my thinking according to what scripture says

like you are offering what you think

 

[mailmandan]

That verse in John 3:5 is not referring to water baptism. Jesus was answering Nicodemus' question concerning being born again. Nicodemus asked "how can a man be born a second time when he is old ? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born ?" Verse 6 clarifies this "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." Jesus was referring to the natural birth as being born of water not baptism in water.

In regards to the word "water" in John 3:5, there are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels "water" with being born out of a mother’s womb (verse 4) and with "flesh" (verse 6). Simply stated in that case, Jesus told Nicodemus that in order to see the kingdom of God two births are necessary. The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth (which is, of course, accompanied by amniotic "water") and the second is Spirit.

There are also those who would argue that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

Yet there are still others who would argue that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with "cleansing or washing." (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5) So for someone to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

 

[mailmandan]

Believers have the indwelling of the Spirit that testifies with God's Spirit that they are the children of God. Yet, many people lack the baptism of the Spirit that affords them power from on high to deal with their spiritual enemies. This is why much of the church is powerless today....

Is the term 'baptism of the Spirit' here used synonymously with being 'filled with the Spirit' in Pentecostal circles? In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we read - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. This is a reality for all believers, yet not all believers are filled with the Spirit and possess all the spiritual gifts.

 

[Wansvic]

no that’s not whats there there are clearly two experiences but you cut one out

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.


Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they received the spirit first and then immediately after they got baptized in water for remission. Water baptism is for remitting our sins in Christs death. receiving The spirit is being born into Christs resurrection and eternal
Life.

sin is about flesh so we have to act I. Faith and get baptized for remission based on the belief that his word is true saying if we get baptized he will remit our sins. Any believer of that will go get baptized in water. Receiving The spirit comes because we believe remission of sins because we repent and get baptized

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

one baptism , two functions

You misunderstand what I was referring to. I agree with you that both water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost are necessary and seen in the account. Aaron56 stated in Post #117 that receiving the Holy Ghost upon believing the gospel message is the gift, whereas the Spirit baptism is a separate experience given in order to receive power.

My point was that the word clearly expresses that the gift of the Holy Ghost is the Spirit baptism.

 

[Wansvic]

Both are gifts. No argument from me, brother.

In your Post #117 you stated it is simple to understand that receiving the Holy Ghost was the gift and the Spirit baptism was a separate experience. After being shown scripture that shows this is incorrect you stated they are both gifts.

As presented, the gift of the Holy Ghost is actually the Spirit baptism. They are one in the same. Not two separate experiences.