THE WOMEN OF THE CHURCH

[John146]

Yes.

See my Post on Phoebe......

Romans 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Romans 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

Can you see if you can bring my thinking to a logical conclusion.

Both Paul and Jesus was considered by the role of deakonos and both were single men. Both taught as teachers while serving others.


Paul must of forgot to eliminate himself as he was not a man of one spouse and so was Jesus.

Why the same word here as used for Phoebe?

Can only married men of one wife be a deacon or overseer?

Here is Paul saying he became a deacon of the gospel. Same word as deacon is translated as servant as well.

Ephesians 3:7
New International Version
7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power.

Now if you follow the doctrine of women submission to men then do you also apply in 1 Timothy 11 that men are not to have long hair and women are not to have shaved or short hair?

Are you enforcing this?

Or 1 Timothy 2 also says women can not have elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes?

Are you enforcing this as well?

They also must be submissive and be quiet when men are teaching? (Also this translation could mean husband not men in general which changes the context)

I know this is being taught already.

But near the end women are to be saved from the evil done by Eve through reproduction?

How do you teach this?

I want to know if we the individual is now the temple, we the individual is now the church, and where 2 or 3 are gathered this is an assembly what is your guidance on women teaching if two of these are men?

If a women breaks the rules and preaches the gospel leading men to Christ, will those men not be saved?

In context of 1 Corinthians do you agree Paul was addressing disorder in the church and that the Corinthians had women prophets? Is order of who speaks the same as not speaking entirely?

In context did you know the church of Corinthians and Ephesus had issues with pagan traditions related to women that very well could be the reasons only these Churches are addressed?

Even the concept of a women covering was due to pagan rituals especially shaven heads, fancy jewelry and clothes. In context Paul even addresses the issue of women trying to surpass the men with heresies.

 

[John146]

Both Paul and Jesus was considered by the role of deakonos and both were single men. Both taught as teachers while serving others.

The problem is you're equating being a servant to the specific office of a deacon. One can be a servant, but not hold the office of a deacon. The office of a deacon is a chosen servant for a particular local body of Christ.

 

[John146]

If a women breaks the rules and preaches the gospel leading men to Christ, will those men not be saved?

Nowhere does scripture forbid women from preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to a man. That's entirely different from holding an office in the body.

 

[John146]

In context did you know the church of Corinthians and Ephesus had issues with pagan traditions related to women that very well could be the reasons only these Churches are addressed?

Paul taught the same doctrine to every church, everywhere he went.

1 Corinthians 4
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.
17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

 

[John146]

Even the concept of a women covering was due to pagan rituals especially shaven heads, fancy jewelry and clothes. In context Paul even addresses the issue of women trying to surpass the men with heresies.

Do you not think this is doctrine for the body of Christ today?

 

[Dino246]

Phoebe did not hold the office of a deacon, but rather was a servant of the church. There is a difference.

Romans 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

I’m not joining your circle of folly. This has been addressed already.

 

[Dino246]

The problem is you're equating being a servant to the specific office of a deacon. One can be a servant, but not hold the office of a deacon. The office of a deacon is a chosen servant for a particular local body of Christ.

More circular reasoning.

 

[John146]

I’m not joining your circle of folly. This has been addressed already.

You can be a servant of a church but not hold the office of a deacon. You can't deny this.

 

[SophieT]

I‘ll repeat my statement...

“I would say they both had a part, but the husband was the lead.”

That‘s biblical.

faced with the truth that you are wrong, you now make things up. childish and sad

you are simply tangled up in the pages of an archaic translation that suits you to a T as it gives you an excuse (you think) to treat women as inferior

 

[Roughsoul1991]

The problem is you're equating being a servant to the specific office of a deacon. One can be a servant, but not hold the office of a deacon. The office of a deacon is a chosen servant for a particular local body of Christ.

No. I'm equating the same word in Greek to the same word used in the passage that you call an office position.

Nowhere does scripture forbid women from preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to a man. That's entirely different from holding an office in the body.

Please tell me the difference in preaching versus preaching in a building?

Paul taught the same doctrine to every church, everywhere he went.

1 Corinthians 4
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.
17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

He taught the foundation while others like Apollos or Timothy built on top of the foundation. Some may build with gold while others hay. We debate over what is gold and what is hay.

Do you not think this is doctrine for the body of Christ today?

I asked you. Still need answers to these.

Can only married men of one wife be a deacon or overseer?

Now if you follow the doctrine of women submission to men then do you also apply in 1 Timothy 11 that men are not to have long hair and women are not to have shaved or short hair?

Are you enforcing this?

Or 1 Timothy 2 also says women can not have elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes?

Are you enforcing this as well?

They also must be submissive and be quiet when men are teaching? (Also this translation could mean husband not men in general which changes the context)

How do you enforce this?

But near the end women are to be saved from the evil done by Eve through reproduction?

How do you teach this?

I want to know if we the individual is now the temple, we the individual is now the church, and where 2 or 3 are gathered this is an assembly what is your guidance on women teaching if two of these are men?


In context of 1 Corinthians do you agree Paul was addressing disorder in the church and that the Corinthians had women prophets? Is order of who speaks the same as not speaking entirely?

In context did you know the church of Corinthians and Ephesus had issues with pagan traditions related to women that very well could be the reasons only these Churches are addressed?

 

[John146]

you are simply tangled up in the pages of an archaic translation that suits you to a T as it gives you an excuse (you think) to treat women as inferior

This is laughable. I don't treat women inferior and that's slander. My wife loves the word of God and knows the word of God. She is a beautiful, God fearing woman who loves her husband and kids. She is my help mate. She is an example of Proverbs 31.

 

[John146]

Please tell me the difference in preaching versus preaching in a building?

Do you not know the difference between sharing your faith and being head of and overseer of a local church, body of Christ?

 

[kaylagrl]

Since I didn't get an answer to my question I'll take a stab at answering the OP. I found an interesting article and it's close to what I have believed for years. And I believe it's a lot closer to the truth than what some have been taught down through the years.

In this article the author takes into account the time period we are talking about. What was the situation of women? Not only did she take that into account but also the flow of Scripture here that is talking about false doctrine. Here's some points she makes in the article that I think make sense.

1. False teaching was a major problem in Ephesus. Most of it probably came from the Artemis cult and early forms of Gnosticism.
2. The Ephesian women needed to learn because they were “talking nonsense.” They probably brought false teaching into the church hoping Artemis would keep them safe in childbirth.
3. Everyone should learn the truth calmly and submissively.
4. Women shouldn’t dominate men, nor should men dominate women. Just because women in Ephesus were teaching falsely and needed to learn doesn’t mean women can’t be good teachers elsewhere.
5. Contrary to Gnostic ideas, Eve didn’t do something good by seeking “knowledge.” Rather, she was deceived and sinned. 6.God will keep Christian women safe in childbirth. They don’t need Artemis worship.

You mentioned you feel bad for the plight of women in the church. These verses more than any other have been used to abuse women, to silence women, to forbid women to minster and take part in the church. Yet people still doggedly and dogmatically try to pull this instance of Scripture out of context in time and in what was being focused on, false doctrine. False doctrine was rampant, women of that time period were falling for it and were spreading it. That doesn't mean woman for all time are not mature enough in the Lord to know false doctrine. Lord knows we have more men teaching false doctrine in the church this day in age, just watch 10 mins. of TBN. The fact that this subject has caused so much hurt, division, and abuse in the church should have us looking at what we think we know and deep a little deeper. We have wonderful sisters here that are in ministry or have been, even though many would bar the door to them. It's a great pity that some men cannot stop and think how they would feel if they were told they could have no part in services and must remain mute. I don't believe for one minute that that is what Paul was saying to all women of all time. There is a better explanation.

For those who wish to continue to bicker and argue and cause strife, I'd like anyone to explain to me why the good Lord would cut his harvesters in half after making this comment...

“The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.” "We need harvesters!! Pray for more to be sent ou... no not y'all, you all shut up, sit down and be silent !" "Now where are my harvesters?!" Yeah, no, I don't believe that for one minute. As I said in my travels, many of these small country churches were kept totally alive by the women of the church. They could do everything except preach. And some here have said a church should rather be shut down than have a female preacher. smh I will never, ever believe that is God's will.

We had a thread a while back about preachers not harping at men to go to church. I was dumbfounded. I tell you this, if you believe God would punish a woman for spreading the Gospel, what is his punishment for man who sit at home on a Sunday to watch his sports rather than get up and take his children to Sunday School and take his place by his wife in the pew? How many woman have to badger husbands to get them to attend church on Sunday, let alone any other time of the week. Really, who do you think the Lord will be more upset with? smh

For those who are to read the article here is the link...

https://www.cbeinternational.org/re...en-someone-says-women-are-not-permitted-teach

Well thanks brother Dino, at least one person took what I said seriously. Looks like a couple people are running this topic and everyone else's view is being ignored. So carry on men, don't let anyone else's view stop ya.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Well thanks brother Dino, at least one person took what I said seriously. Looks like a couple people are running this topic and everyone else's view is being ignored. So carry on men, don't let anyone else's view stop ya.

I agree with your post and take it seriously but those who are debating are stuck in translation differences and we unfortunately can not make it to the reasons why only two churches were addressed in structure and on women.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Do you not know the difference between sharing your faith and being head of and overseer of a local church, body of Christ?

Both are teaching the Word of God and Biblically the role of pastor was to teach


Acts 20:28
English Standard Version
28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God,[a] which he obtained with his own blood.[b]
Footnotes

1. Acts 20:28 Some manuscripts of the Lord
2. Acts 20:28 Or with the blood of his Own

English- yourselves
1438. heautou

Strong's Concordance

heautou: of himself, herself, itself

English- Overseer
1985. episkopos​

Strong's Concordance

episkopos: a superintendent, an overseer​

(epískopos) has been regarded traditionally as a position of authority, in reality the focus is upon the responsibility for caring for others" (L & N, 1, 35.40).​

​

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Do you not know the difference between sharing your faith and being head of and overseer of a local church, body of Christ?

Now what of my other questions?

 

[kaylagrl]

I agree with your post and take it seriously but those who are debating are stuck in translation differences and we unfortunately can not make it to the reasons why only two churches were addressed in structure and on women.

Lol sorry had to chuckle. Do you think these people will still be hitting each other over the head with the Bible when Christ returns? It would be great if someone would pay attention to the harvest and quit the squabblin. Just sayin'.

 

[Dino246]

You can be a servant of a church but not hold the office of a deacon. You can't deny this.

I deny it based on the Greek words used.

 

[Dino246]

This is laughable. I don't treat women inferior and that's slander. My wife loves the word of God and knows the word of God. She is a beautiful, God fearing woman who loves her husband and kids. She is my help mate. She is an example of Proverbs 31.

“Help mate”: an excellent example of an archaic and incorrect interpretation.