How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
No, it's not, but that's for another thread.

Good Nite Friends - Pray for our Nation and the Saints who are currently in Great Tribulation even now.

Because of the timing of the reaping in Revelation 14(144,000 already sealed by then,verse 1),,,and the woman,beast ect. still in existence ect.(Rev. chapter 14), this becomes quite interesting. The issue of the "Everlasting Gospel",(Rev.14:6) comes to mind in that which Gospel was it that the 144,000 heard? Is it that one ended and another begins in Revelation 14:6 or are they the same? That is as Paul stated in Galatians 1:8,,, if then the angel in Revelations 14:6 preaches "another Gospel" then he is cursed? ,,, Revelation 14:6 and Galatians 1:8 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/14-6.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/galatians/1-8.htm and Revelation 14 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/14.htm
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
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Because of the timing of the reaping in Revelation 14(144,000 already sealed by then,verse 1),,,and the woman,beast ect. still in existence ect.(Rev. chapter 14), this becomes quite interesting. The issue of the "Everlasting Gospel",(Rev.14:6) comes to mind in that which Gospel was it that the 144,000 heard? Is it that one ended and another begins in Revelation 14:6 or are they the same? That is as Paul stated in Galatians 1:8,,, if then the angel in Revelations 14:6 preaches "another Gospel" then he is cursed? ,,, Revelation 14:6 and Galatians 1:8 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/14-6.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/galatians/1-8.htm and Revelation 14 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/14.htm
Good Morning Brother,

Do you know who the 144K are?
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
You said: "When it tells us they are "redeemed FROM the earth" that means they are no longer ON the earth."

This is a FALSE statement and directly against Scripture.

pre-trib is the lie that produces a cascade of lies.......more and more are needed as Scripture always opposes it
I know that calling everyone that disagrees with you a liar may make you feel good. But does it follow 1 Cor. 13?
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
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I know that calling everyone that disagrees with you a liar may make you feel good. But does it follow 1 Cor. 13?
You said: "I know that calling everyone that disagrees with you a liar may make you feel good."

It wears heavy on God's heart and on my heart that some have no fear of God when approaching His word.

How, when and where did satan bring the whole world under his power of sin and death???

In the beginning, in the Garden, by taking what God said and then 'adding to and taking away from His words'.

This has never stopped and to the harm of the Church, has been embraced and accepted in christianity.

Only, when we submit to God and refuse the 'temptation' to rise above His word's do we prevail in Christ.

Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. - James 4:7

Now, even this cannot be accomplished of ourselves for it is written:
But He gives us more grace. This is why it says: “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

Therefore, when God makes something clear in His word and we seek to undermine or confuse His clear message, we are no longer submitted to God but have become proud, knowing nothing.

If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

Concerning the Truth of the Redeemed of the LORD on earth now; It is written:

And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior.

I have declared and saved,
I have proclaimed,
And there was no foreign god among you;
Therefore you are My witnesses,”
Says the Lord, “that I am God.

Indeed before the day was, I am He;
And there is no one who can deliver out of My hand;
I work, and who will reverse it?”
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
The Holy One of Israel:


Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. But when the fullness of the time had come,
God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
Gary, i woke up to this as i was contemplating this since last nite.

God's plan is that both a woman and man were to be virgins and bethrothed as virgins before the actual wedding day.

There is ground here to take the view that they were saved = Revelation 14:4
These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.

There are Two terms/words in this parable that are KEY to understanding the MAIN point the LORD is getting across.

It is not virgins but the opening, which everyone goes right by, and the main ingredient in the parable itself.

The third point is the outcome of the first two.
I see the " foolish virgins" as the seeds sown on the stony ground. (Matt. 13: 16-17)

When you take into account what this passage is actually referring to it seems evident that the virgins weren't saved. They had no roots and weren't able to withstand the tribulation/persecution.

If we actually take into account and think about what will be happening during this time. It is definitely not just some happy carefree time where the "virgins" are waiting for the bridegroom. There is actually a terrible time going on in the world around them. Christians will be persecuted in many ways. Then, they will be given the ultimatum take the mark or else you won't be able to buy or sale, and you also might very well get your head cut off.

They won't be able to handle the persecution and tribulation and they are going to fall. They won't be allowed into the kingdom of heaven and told they are not even known from the bridegroom which seems to make it clear they are not saved.

Pre-trib would have us believe that the bridegroom is coming back to get them at another time.

But my Bible don't read like that...The door is shut, and they are not allowed entrance. He says..."I don't know you."

Just my thoughts, but I'd say that means they are not saved and scripture surely doesn't say anything about the Bridegroom coming back again to give them another chance.
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
You said: "I know that calling everyone that disagrees with you a liar may make you feel good."

It wears heavy on God's heart and on my heart that some have no fear of God when approaching His word.

How, when and where did satan bring the whole world under his power of sin and death???

In the beginning, in the Garden, by taking what God said and then 'adding to and taking away from His words'.

This has never stopped and to the harm of the Church, has been embraced and accepted in christianity.

Only, when we submit to God and refuse the 'temptation' to rise above His word's do we prevail in Christ.

Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. - James 4:7

Now, even this cannot be accomplished of ourselves for it is written:
But He gives us more grace. This is why it says: “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

Therefore, when God makes something clear in His word and we seek to undermine or confuse His clear message, we are no longer submitted to God but have become proud, knowing nothing.

If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

Concerning the Truth of the Redeemed of the LORD on earth now; It is written:

And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior.

I have declared and saved,
I have proclaimed,
And there was no foreign god among you;
Therefore you are My witnesses,”
Says the Lord, “that I am God.

Indeed before the day was, I am He;
And there is no one who can deliver out of My hand;
I work, and who will reverse it?”
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
The Holy One of Israel:


Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. But when the fullness of the time had come,
God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
So now you are hinting strongly that those who disagree with you are proud. Now those who disagree are both liars and proud. Are you proud of yourself?
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
I see the " foolish virgins" as the seeds sown on the stony ground. (Matt. 13: 16-17)

When you take into account what this passage is actually referring to it seems evident that the virgins weren't saved. They had no roots and weren't able to withstand the tribulation/persecution.

If we actually take into account and think about what will be happening during this time. It is definitely not just some happy carefree time where the "virgins" are waiting for the bridegroom. There is actually a terrible time going on in the world around them. Christians will be persecuted in many ways. Then, they will be given the ultimatum take the mark or else you won't be able to buy or sale, and you also might very well get your head cut off.

They won't be able to handle the persecution and tribulation and they are going to fall. They won't be allowed into the kingdom of heaven and told they are not even known from the bridegroom which seems to make it clear they are not saved.

Pre-trib would have us believe that the bridegroom is coming back to get them at another time.

But my Bible don't read like that...The door is shut, and they are not allowed entrance. He says..."I don't know you."

Just my thoughts, but I'd say that means they are not saved and scripture surely doesn't say anything about the Bridegroom coming back again to give them another chance.
Please review Post #4,443
as to imho on this ( i hold no certain/definite clear take on 'virgin' in this passage as it is a parable).

However, there are at least two passages of scripture that take BOTH views into account - see Post #4,443

PEACE and LOVE from the DOVE that fills our Hearts to care for no OTHER more then our Brother
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
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So now you are hinting strongly that those who disagree with you are proud. Now those who disagree are both liars and proud. Are you proud of yourself?
Stand back away from your post and read your own words. You keep adding to God's words and mine.
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
...

Pre-trib would have us believe that the bridegroom is coming back to get them at another time.

...
Where do people come up with such nonsense?

This does bring up a question:

Will those left behind, the "remnant" of Rev. 12, be a part of the Bride, or will they only be guests if they refuse the mark and become one of the beheaded?
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
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Where do people come up with such nonsense?

This does bring up a question:

Will those left behind, the "remnant" of Rev. 12, be a part of the Bride, or will they only be guests if they refuse the mark and become one of the beheaded?
Where do people come up with such nonsense?
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
You are a very intelligent Brother, sometimes that causes us to overlook the obvious so do not think to hard on this as the answer is found in His Word which is the only PLACE that Liberty and Authority are Granted from the Father - Amen
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
63
Where do people come up with such nonsense?
Understanding the resurrections requires a deep study taking in all the scripture!

Not just the scripture you choose to take in! This is why you don't understand what he is speaking of.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
That is the definition of what i have done with HS7.

Where did i gain the Liberty and Authority to do it, and at the same time pleasing God in it ???

Cant I be ignorant of some things and the drops of blood from my Lord fall on my head as I stand at the Cross? It would be enough to wash me clean even if I crawled up and the crumbs of broiled fish dipped in honey comb fell in my hair.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
Understanding the resurrections requires a deep study taking in all the scripture!

Not just the scripture you choose to take in! This is why you don't understand what he is speaking of.
CHRIST will leave none of His behind - Guaranteed by His own words - He keep His word.

pre-trib is a cascade of error as it opposes the Truth by redirection, adding and taking away from God's words.

Separating Jew from Gentile in His Body is sin = It is written, what God has joined together let no man separate.

Separating the Body of Christ from His Coming to after His Coming is sin.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
Cant I be ignorant of some things and the drops of blood from my Lord fall on my head as stand at the Cross? It would be enough to wash me clean even if I crawled up and the crumbs of broiled fish dipped in honey comb fell in my hair.
LOVE you Brother - i hope you know i stand next to you, hand in hand, in your post here.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
63
CHRIST will leave none of His behind - Guaranteed by His own words - He keep His word.

pre-trib is a cascade of error as it opposes the Truth by redirection, adding and taking away from God's words.

Separating Jew from Gentile in His Body is sin = It is written, what God has joined together let no man separate.

Separating the Body of Christ from His Coming to after His Coming is sin.
I agree, Christ will not leave behind anyone who belongs to Him at the rapture.

But everyone who claims to be saved are not saved, or Christ would not have said, "depart from me, I never knew you."

He comes to get His true church not the apostate church who pretends to know Him!