How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[Laura798]

1+1 = 2 and 1+1+1 =3.

His coming as shown in Luke 2, plus His coming as shown in 1 Cor. 4, plus His coming as shown in Rev. 19.

"so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him.…"--Hebrews 9:28

And I always thought Paul was a pretty smart guy....

 

[ewq1938]

... all the while "post-tribbers" insist that Matthew 24:29-31 IS the "rapture" (with no evidence of this being the case

That is the rapture. There is much support for it because the rapture is the gathering of the saints and the timing is exact.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

There is no doubt that both speak of the coming of Christ and the rapture which is the gathering of the saints. Because pretribbers are so loyal to their doctrine, they are forced to deny the rapture is there in Matthew 24 despite that it clearly is described.

 

[GaryA]

Double post

You do realize that you can delete a post just as easily as you can edit it - right?

 

[oyster67]

What _ have _ we _ unleashed?!?!?

I am coming for YOU, Gary....

 

[DavidTree]

I thank you for your honesty and it's a pleasure to discuss this with someone who has this right attitude.

Of course I'm pre-trib, and I can tell you the gaps I see being filled by the post-trib camp.

No where in scripture does it say the Church goes through the tribulation, the post-trib theory assumes that! They have absolutely no proof of this, it is total conjecture.

The post-trib theory does not allow for the gap of the 7 years during the tribulation. Meaning if all are resurrected at the Second Coming there will be no natural bodies left on earth for reproduction. The 7 year gap seen in the pre-trib theory allows for reproduction to be possible on earth during the 1000 year reign and into the Perfect Age.

There are several other things that I don't want to bring up now, but later.

You said: "No where in scripture does it say the Church goes through the tribulation, the post-trib theory assumes that! They have absolutely no proof of this, it is total conjecture."

At first i thought you were joking here as i bust out laughing - but then i realized you are serious.

Does your Bible have Revelation in it? or the book of Job or James ch5 or 1 Thess & 2 Thess?

Because mine does, and the Saints are everywhere throughout Revelation from chapter 1 thru to chapter 22.

You talk about being serious but in fact you are only looking for someone to pawn off your unbelief in Scripture.

The error of pre-trib is to reject what is 'written', then say there are 'gaps' that need filling - then fill them with untrue words.

God says: "no lie comes from the truth" and God never said "pre-trib rapture" therefore we, who hold strong to God's words,
know that pre-trib is a lie from the evil one.

 

[Laura798]

Is it possible, oyster, that Miss Laura is spinning another web?

 

[1ofthem]

I am coming for YOU, Gary....

STOP IT!!!!

 

[DavidTree]

Don't tell me you found the phrase "SECOND Coming" in Scripture, did you??

Where?!


.

QUESTION: Which one of your two categories / options does the following "come / comes / cometh / came" fit into?


John 21:13 -

Berean Study Bible
Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and He did the same with the fish.

Berean Literal Bible
Jesus comes and takes the bread and gives it to them, and the fish likewise.

King James Bible
Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.

New King James Version
Jesus then came and took the bread and gave it to them, and likewise the fish.

NASB 1995
Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and the fish likewise.

Literal Standard Version
Jesus, therefore, comes and takes the bread and gives [it] to them, and the fish in like manner;

Young's Literal Translation
Jesus, therefore, doth come and take the bread and give to them, and the fish in like manner;
___________

^ this was after He'd already ascended to the Father on His Resurrection Day / ON Firstfruits (after He rose from the dead), per what He told Mary Magdalene in John 20:17... and per what He'd already said (shortly before the Cross) in John 16:16 -

"A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father." [and, after they inwardly questioned as to what He could have meant, says] "22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you."

So...

Which "category" (of your two options [man-supplied labels ]) does this "come/came" (at top) "fit" into, since He'd already ascended to Heaven in between (bodily), and had then come back to earth to spend "40 days" being seen of them and speaking to them about the things pertaining to the kingdom (Acts 1)?

According to your 'foggy' calculations (you guys are real smart) you need to add up every time in Scripture we read:
"His coming" + "the Coming of the Lord" + "His Appearing" + "when He Appears" + "Our Gathering" + "Resurrection of the Dead"
+ "caught up" then multiply by 2 for "Second Appearing" then subtract for "Left Behind" and then multiply by 10 for Tribulation Saints.

GENIUS frowns where Simplicity abounds as Wisdom and Knowledge put on their Wedding Gowns

 

[Gideon300]

Plymouth Brethren was a movement, not a church. Recording him among the Anglicans is of little consequence although it seems he was a part of them when he came up with the pre-trib rapture and dispensationalism.

The point was it was popular among the Irish and then packaged and sold through Lindsey and DTS.

The Brethren became just as much a denomination as the Baptists and still are. Darby was responsible for a split and formed the Exclusive Brethren. I spent some time attending Brethren meetings. Structurally, they are as good as it gets. Spiritually, nothing much. Legalistic, religious, unforgiving and self righteous.

 

[Charlie24]

This makes no sense. I am 100 percent right the rapture isn't mentioned there. Paul only discusses how people become immortal in that passage. Yes, the rapture happens after the living are changed but the change happens first and Paul doesn't get into what happens next in that passage.

Compare it side by side with the Second Coming and see if it fits.

Rapture/Translation/ 2nd Coming/ Estab. Kingdom
1 Translation of all believers 1 No translation at all
2 Translated saints go to heaven 2 Translated saints return to earth
3 Earth not judged 3 Earth judged and righteousness established
4 Imminent, any-moment, signless 4 Follows definite predicted signs and tribulation
5 Not in the Old Testament 5 Predicted often in the Old Testament
6 Believers only 6 Effects all men
7 Before the day of wrath 7 Concluding the day of wrath
8 No reference to Satan 8 Satan bound
9 Christ comes for His own 9 Christ comes with His own
10 He comes in the air 10 He comes to the earth
11 He claims His bride 11 He comes with His bride
12 Only His own see Him 12 Every eye shall see Him
13 Tribulation begins 13 Millennial reign begins

 

[1ofthem]

View attachment 233792

Thanks, for putting that lovely picture in my head right before bedtime.

Think I might be wearing my shoes to bed tonight, now...lol

 

[Laura798]

Okay, we can't seem to let go of this bone...."An object in motion tends to stay in motion, and an object at rest tends to stay at rest, unless the object is acted upon by an outside force."

Maybe he IS coming three times--the second wasn't planned--but he looked down from heaven and saw us all arguing and just went"Rrrrrr!--so I prophesy that he's coming to knock our heads together and say "I thought the apostles were knuckleheads--did you happen to read the NEW commandment I gave you?"

Ps how about a new forum called gory stories of the bible? My two favs are Jael and the tent peg and the assination of King Eglon by the left handed Ehud (coincidence--I'm a lefty too!)

 

[GaryA]

Interesting and something to think about.

Could this be illustrating how swiftly and unexpectedly for some the end will come?

I mean if you read the verses directly before those, that seems to be what it is explaining...IMHO

Matthew 24:

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Hmmmm...

Why would anyone think that this passage was about events happening at the coming of the Lord...?

 

[DavidTree]

"so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him.…"--Hebrews 9:28

And I always thought Paul was a pretty smart guy....

The 'smart' ones on here will tell you that does not speak of His Coming, only His appearing.

To this i bust a gut lolx 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

 

[Charlie24]

You said: "No where in scripture does it say the Church goes through the tribulation, the post-trib theory assumes that! They have absolutely no proof of this, it is total conjecture."

At first i thought you were joking here as i bust out laughing - but then i realized you are serious.

Does your Bible have Revelation in it? or the book of Job or James ch5 or 1 Thess & 2 Thess?

Because mine does, and the Saints are everywhere throughout Revelation from chapter 1 thru to chapter 22.

You talk about being serious but in fact you are only looking for someone to pawn off your unbelief in Scripture.

The error of pre-trib is to reject what is 'written', then say there are 'gaps' that need filling - then fill them with untrue words.

God says: "no lie comes from the truth" and God never said "pre-trib rapture" therefore we, who hold strong to God's words,
know that pre-trib is a lie from the evil one.

Show me after Rev 4 through all of the documented Great Tribulation where the Church is mentioned, chap. and vs.

 

[Laura798]

Thanks, for putting that lovely picture in my head right before bedtime.

Think I might be wearing my shoes to bed tonight, now...lol

You're most welcome--I think you'll like the last pic even more--sweet dreams..... ps i like that ehud looks more like a woman in that pic. however, i don't think Ehud would care for the depiction..

 

[Laura798]

The 'smart' ones on here will tell you that does not speak of His Coming, only His appearing.

To this i bust a gut lolx 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

 

[GaryA]

The mere fact that Christ refers to them as "virgins" is proof that they were His!

Not true.

 

[DavidTree]

Show me after Rev 4 through all of the documented Great Tribulation where the Church is mentioned, chap. and vs.

Open Book Exam - Church 101

What comprises the Church of Christ?

A.) Believers (phrases such as "when you believed") Ephesians 1:13
B.) Elect (phrases such as "elect according to the foreknowledge of God) 1 Peter 1:2
C.) Saints (phrases such as sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints) 1 Corinthians 1:2
D.) Faith (phrases such as by faith you stand) 2 Corinthians 1:24
E.) Overcome (phrases such as, they overcame him) Revelation 12:11
F.) Testimony (phrases such as, hold fast their testimony about Jesus) Revelation 12:17
G.) ALL of the ABOVE

If you see any of These Words/Phrases in Revelation then you found His Church/His Bride/His Elect /His Saints

 

[Charlie24]

Not true.

I suppose you have something behind that!