I believe also that Matthew 11:28-30 shows us that Christ is the substance of the shadow that is the sabbath day law.
Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy
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Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8), And Noah and his family was saved. Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)
Let’s go to Galatians 3: 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Pauls say before faith came, which is only belief in God, we where all kept under the law of animal sacrifice, which was a schoolmaster to teach us the wages of sin, which is death. So something had to die for the our sins, animal that was animals. When Jesus died on the cross, the schoolmaster ended. No more animals are to died for our sins. We will either live or die according to our obedience to God and being under the blood of Jesus.
Let go to Hebrews 10: 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 and having an high priest over the house of God; 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
So Jesus will not die for us again, so be careful in this walk to inherit salvation. So, now Jesus is that veil, and that is to say his flesh, between the Father and us. Washing our bodies with pure water which is to say the Uncut word of God. There is no more veil so know need to confess your sins to a priest. We must pray to God in Jesus name for forgiveness. The Levitical Priesthood of Melchizedek (Jesus) cannot coexist. This is what the Catholic Church is doing, which is wrong.
Let’s go to Romans 3: 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
The deeds of the law again is the killing animal for sin. The Gentiles are Europeans/white people. The circumcision is Israel and the Uncircumcision is the stranger. The Law we establish is the Ten Commandments by keeping them.
In Galatians 3: 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Pauls say before faith came, which is only belief in God, we where all kept under the law of animal sacrifice, which was a schoolmaster to teach us the wages of sin, which is death. So something had to die for the our sins, animal that was animals. When Jesus died on the cross, the schoolmaster ended. No more animals are to died for our sins. We will either live or die according to our obedience to God and being under the blood of Jesus.
Paul explained this law in; (Heb.10:1, 9-10,18,26-27) (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.
Do not let anyone convince you that it's wrong to keep God's commandments. Don't let anyone deprive you of the opportunity to receive eternal life. We were deprived of this opportunity once, but the death of Jesus has given us another chance. All have sinned (broken the law...Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).
When Jesus (the true Lamb of God) was sacrificed, he removed our past sins. If we accept Jesus as our sin offering, we are required to repent and get baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS ("there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved..."(Acts 4: 12). This is our last chance Brothers and Sister. To repent means to turn from our sinful ways and start obeying God's law. The water baptism signifies the washing away of our past sins. After repenting and being baptized in the name of Jesus it would be foolish for us to turn around and willingly break God's commandments.
If we make an honest mistake Jesus can help us, but if we sin willingly, look out! "...there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..." (Hebrews 10:26-27). When Jesus died only the sacrificial law was done away with, alone with Leviticus priesthood.
When Jesus (the true Lamb of God) was sacrificed, he removed our past sins. If we accept Jesus as our sin offering, we are required to repent and get baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS ("there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved..."(Acts 4: 12). This is our last chance Brothers and Sister. To repent means to turn from our sinful ways and start obeying God's law. The water baptism signifies the washing away of our past sins. After repenting and being baptized in the name of Jesus it would be foolish for us to turn around and willingly break God's commandments.
If we make an honest mistake Jesus can help us, but if we sin willingly, look out! "...there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..." (Hebrews 10:26-27). When Jesus died only the sacrificial law was done away with, alone with Leviticus priesthood.
Paul is saying that before faith came, we were kept under the law period. The law is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, in that it shows us that we are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20).
All have sinned, All need salvation, It comes by faith in Jesus.
Do we then make void the law..... The law is given to reveal sin, the law is given to help us know what righteousness looks like. Jesus was an example of perfectly obeying the law.
If we keep it because we love Jesus and because He gave all for us, is this wrong? If i obey the law because i would like to be like Jesus and love the laws principles of unselfish love, is that wrong?
The flesh doesn't want to obey but the Spirit loves to obey. When Jesus is in us the law is a delight.
Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa_119:77 Let thy tender mercies come unto me, that I may live: for thy law is my delight.
Rom_7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Do we then make void the law..... The law is given to reveal sin, the law is given to help us know what righteousness looks like. Jesus was an example of perfectly obeying the law.
If we keep it because we love Jesus and because He gave all for us, is this wrong? If i obey the law because i would like to be like Jesus and love the laws principles of unselfish love, is that wrong?
The flesh doesn't want to obey but the Spirit loves to obey. When Jesus is in us the law is a delight.
Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa_119:77 Let thy tender mercies come unto me, that I may live: for thy law is my delight.
Rom_7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
So the Lord mis-spoke in Matthew 5?
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
And I guess Paul mis-spoke in Hebrews 7 as well.
Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Maybe its a possibility that your philosophy is wrong and the Lord Jesus and Paul are the ones who are correct?
The verses that you have quoted above apparently contradict each other, @Grandpa.
The apparent contradiction is reconciled here:
https://christianchat.com/threads/the-wet-paint-principle-freedom-from-sin.201727/post-4667832
I think the conversation always comes back to the fact that law means different things in different instances in scripture. As a result of that, there are disagreements about interpretations.
If we are to say the law refers to the entire body of OT law, and look at commandments in isolation we see what superficially appear to be contradictions. Are OT commandments about circumcision in play? No, because that is explicitly addressed in the NT as being fulfilled by Christ. What other commandments are fulfilled by Christ? I see no reason why it wouldn't be the case that all of the OT commandments are. But in order to partake in the covenant of Christ, one must observe the law of Christ. Many elements of the law of Christ are similar to OT law, with differences. "Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbour" from the OT appears as "thou shall not bear false witness" in the NT. An untrained eye isn't going to see the subtle difference, but the OT phrasing permits bearing false witness in favour of others as well as bearing false witness against non-neighbours. The NT contains an iteration of that commandment that is different.
Likewise in regard to the Sabbath, the NT instructions for how to respect the Sabbath seem to be more open ended and not necessarily a requirement to strictly adhere to OT provisions for the Sabbath.
We see in Exodus 21:23–27 that the basis of the law is equivalency. Where the Pharisees skewed this principle to serve their own unGodly purposes, those in Christ are called to live for God's will with the love of Christ being the guiding force for decision making, rather than a legalistic interpretation that follows the letter of righteousness at the expense of its spirit.
If the OT law says it is a requirement to execute nonobservers of the Sabbath rest, is it then righteous to do so? The execution wouldn't be considered murder in accordance with OT law. But, is it righteous? Are we being disobedient to the law by not partaking in that execution?
Would you draw an ass from a well on the Sabbath? If yes, we see that good works are permitted on the Sabbath, and if we endeavour to be in Christ, we aim to have Christ always work through us in good works. Is it then not acceptable to always work on the Sabbath knowing that our aim is to have good works produced through us? How then would that be considered a disobedience to the law?
It sounds eloquent but it wasn't what Paul said. That's what translations have rendered.
...But did He?
Whose job was it to work during the Sabbath and Holy Days? It was the priest. They were never bound by the "do no work" portion of the Sabbath because they were the arm of the Almighty who ministered His will to the people on that day.
The reason why the Pharisees didn't recognize what Messiah was/is was because their man-made traditions established that priests were only produced through their man-made Order/school...so He was seen as a regular man to them.
John 5:17
But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”
If it is permissible under the law for Christ to work on the Sabbath, what does this say about those in Christ that are the body of Christ?
Well, the first portion of Sabbath law says, "remember, the Sabbath day and keep it holy.", and then it goes into the work restriction.
The priests under Moses/Aaron as Levites always worked on the Sabbath, but for the Almighty. They didn't do their own work. They kept the day Holy and ministered on behalf of the Living God. As descendent Melchisedec priests, we are to walk as our High Priest walked.
So indeed it's permissible for the body of Christ to work on the Sabbath as we follow our Head, but just like the priests under Moses/Aaron, the Messiah didn't do His own work on the Sabbath. He specifically did His father's work.
So if we are operating as priests on that day we work for the Almighty. If not, we rest. Both acts honor the Sabbath law.
Why would God allow for this confusion to be possible? It is clearly a possibility that when Paul speaks of the shadow that is the sabbath day; but the body, of Christ; that it can be taken to mean that the body, which is Christ, is the substance that casts the shadow.
The interpretation seems clear to me in the interpretation of the word "shadow" that when it says "the body, of Christ" that it is understandably speaking of the body that casts the shadow, and that Christ is the substance, or body, that casts the shadow.
I understand this by correlating the word "shadow" to the word "body".
I think that God could have conveyed what you think it is saying better if, instead of saying, "the body of Christ" He would have said, "the church".
Why would God instead relate it as the body, of Christ, which can be interpreted to mean the substance that casts the shadow...
I do believe that it is important to understand that God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33)..
Maybe a different question; would the Almighty allow such confusion?
2 Thessalonians 2:7-11
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Generally speaking, I only share the above passage to show that He would allow such confusion; that it's not out of the realm of possibility and purpose.
Sure, it's possible. But if we read the context of the letter at the specific portion in question, Paul is speaking against others who would try to tempt the believer with extra doctrines of men as opposed to "what [they] had been taught". It was a constant battle between the "leaven" of the Pharisees and the pure truth of the Law, as they tried to frame Paul for speaking against the law almost constantly.
The "ordinances" that were nailed to the cross were "of the doctrines of men". The Messiahs said the Pharisees were placing heavy burdens on the people with their extra traditions, of whom He made a public spectacle (i.e. He made them look silly for their traditions).
So with that in mind, the question is, which rendering makes more sense in that context:
- Therefore, let no man judge you [with regard to the Sabbath] but the body of Christ.
- Therefore, let no man judge you [with regard to the Sabbath]. But the substance of it is Christ.
One rendering sets an objective boundary on who is authorized to judge the believer's walk, while the other rendering makes the believer's walk subjective if no one is to judge them, not even elders in the faith...it's a slippery slope towards iniquity (the fruit of which is evident in today's generation in the church).
let no man judge you if you believe you should keep the Sabbath command, it is useful - but the totality of understanding - is Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:2 NKJV - I fed you with milk… | Biblia
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 2 I had to feed you with milk, not with solid food, because you weren't ready for anything stronger. And you still aren't ready
it's okay, and maybe needful and can be useful - in the beginning, and for quite some time. eventually you might not need it anymore. don't let others judge you for believing in good helpful things if that is the way it has been revealed to you by God through His Word.
if anyone judges you for keeping the Sabbath (resting) and wanting to then they lack understanding that each believer is in a different place spiritually. in this lack many doctrines are formed and held to firmly which can hold the believer back from learning more truth.
Seriously? You don't know that it was Jesus Who both spoke and wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger in stone at Sinai? Good gravy, man, have you never heard of the concept of "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little and there a little"? Here's a crash course for you:"Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know."--1st Corinthians 8:2
Grandpa,
Where have I said anything that would make you think I have neglected the verses you've posted here? I unlike you, do not feel free to pick and choose verses to fit my theological narrative. I believe all of God's Word; I know I must study it on my own and not go by what I've been taught by some denomination. You think it's all about grace. And grace is the means by which we obtain Salvation. However, I believe what scriptures says; if we TRULY believe Christ is Lord we obey Him out of LOVE not legalism--which I've already clearly stated--you seem bent on making me and others wrong. (and we are able to do this by the power of His Spirit living in us.)
You said: "The Lord here is saying to keep HIS commandments, NOT THE 10 commandments." What Christian does not believe we can have no other gods than the one true God? What Christian believes it's okay to steal or commit adultery or to covet? You don't think these are the commands He is referring to? Again, all of us posting here believe we are to follow all of Christ's teaching and that includes the 10 Commandments.
Are you a monotheist? Do you not believe Jesus' words "I and the Father are one." and "If you've seen me you have seen the Father?" Therefore the 10 Commandments are also HIS commandments. Don't you understand that the 10 Commandments (the Moral Law, not the Mosaic Law) were written in stone by the very finger of God thus to be obeyed into perpetuity? That living by them actually gives us a more peaceful and contented life?
You also said this which seems to go against what you actually believe: "The Lord Jesus Christ has become the High Priest for ALL who obey Him. So, Why haven't you?" I and others have been saying that the whole time.
Apparently you aren't reading my posts. I am under no bondage by obeying the commandments. "In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,"--1st John 5:3
Read Christs words. He repeats the 10 commandments just not in list form.
Note too He said “ a new command I give, to love one another”- if new then what are the older commands?
"Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,"--1st John 2:4
ps please read posts and the posts of others before responding to them.
OLD TESTAMENT:
Psalms 78:1-2 KJV
78:1 Maschil of Asaph. Give ear, O My people, to My law: incline your ears to the words of My mouth.
78:2 I will open My mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:
NEW TESTAMENT:
Matthew 13:34-35 KJV
13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake He not unto them:
13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
See what I did there? I showed you the God of the OT Who commands us to give heed to the Ten Commandments which He spoke with His own mouth and wrote in stone to signify the permanent nature of them is the same God Who Matthew says fulfilled the prophecy about what the OT God intended to do in the future: Jesus.
Hi Phoneman,
I believe your response was for someone else...grandma --er --I mean grandpa maybe?
Old Testament " Obey my Voice", New Testament " Obey my Voice" .......Hears and does Rock, Hears and does not do Sand. Psalm 150. "All In"