THE WOMEN OF THE CHURCH
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well if not hate, then resentment
as in can't live with them but can't live without them sort of thing
far too many men still resent a woman who is intelligent AND talented AND good looking. there seems to be a need with some to put that in it's 'place'. maybe one or two of those things at a time, but not altogether
then they complain about women's lib, all the while the main reason it came into being in the first place (speaking outside of Christianity here)
the way I see things is that everyone is a person first and whatever gender they are comes after, but a thread like this is just rife with anti-woman sentiment but they will not admit it, seeing the Bible as their excuse for their behavior
as in can't live with them but can't live without them sort of thing
far too many men still resent a woman who is intelligent AND talented AND good looking. there seems to be a need with some to put that in it's 'place'. maybe one or two of those things at a time, but not altogether
then they complain about women's lib, all the while the main reason it came into being in the first place (speaking outside of Christianity here)
the way I see things is that everyone is a person first and whatever gender they are comes after, but a thread like this is just rife with anti-woman sentiment but they will not admit it, seeing the Bible as their excuse for their behavior
We have to be very careful when a topic is only listed a few times in scripture that seems to counter other scriptures like for example,
1 John 5
18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.
It seems to say we are now in sinless perfection which seems to counter other scriptures.
The Great Commission does not discern between gender and neither does prophets of the Word. There are different roles in marriage that is clear but I always question men who say women should not teach men as there are instances in scripture where that occurs and each time they were designated by God.
God's Holy Spirit now lives in us and who is to say that woman being the 1st convert of a tribe over Africa cannot teach and lead the men to Christ? Who is to say she was not designated when the fruit of the Spirit is plain as day?
How ignorant can some be? What is the difference if I go to the town square and preach this sentence, “Jesus was crucified, sealed in a tomb, risen to life for the forgiveness of sins and through grace all can freely receive that forgiveness and in putting your faith in Jesus, you can now receive salvation.”
Versus a women preaching the same message? Will God only allow those who respond under the man to have salvation?
Church has also been modernised to be organizations versus the idea that we the individual is the church and where just 2 or 3 are gathered God sees that as an assembly of saints.
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Sarah obeyed Abraham. 1 Peter 3:6
There is no denying that.
Genesis 21:12 describes a time when GOD told Abraham to listen to and obey his wife Sarah concerning a very important household decision.
But God said to Abraham: Do not be distressed about the boy or about your slave woman. Obey Sarah, no matter what she asks of you; for it is through Isaac that descendants will bear your name. Gen 21:12 NABRE
Sarah obeyed Abraham (1 Peter 3:6), and we have at least one example in scripture when GOD told Abraham to obey Sarah. Genesis 21:12
Almighty God himself allowed the wife (Sarah) to make a very important household decision. GOD told the husband (Abraham) to listen to and obey his wife. God could have given the instructions directly to Abraham, but Almighty God chose to have Abraham listen to and obey Sarah instead.
The Greek word for submit (Hupatasso) is not found in the Old Testament because the language is different. The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew. The definition of submit (Hupatasso) is obey. The Old Testament Hebrew word that means obey is shama. Shama means to listen and obey. There is only one word in Hebrew for obedience, and it is shama. Strong's Concordance # 8085.
https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/H8085/shama`.htm
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/genesis/21-12.htm
There is no denying that.
Genesis 21:12 describes a time when GOD told Abraham to listen to and obey his wife Sarah concerning a very important household decision.
But God said to Abraham: Do not be distressed about the boy or about your slave woman. Obey Sarah, no matter what she asks of you; for it is through Isaac that descendants will bear your name. Gen 21:12 NABRE
Sarah obeyed Abraham (1 Peter 3:6), and we have at least one example in scripture when GOD told Abraham to obey Sarah. Genesis 21:12
Almighty God himself allowed the wife (Sarah) to make a very important household decision. GOD told the husband (Abraham) to listen to and obey his wife. God could have given the instructions directly to Abraham, but Almighty God chose to have Abraham listen to and obey Sarah instead.
The Greek word for submit (Hupatasso) is not found in the Old Testament because the language is different. The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew. The definition of submit (Hupatasso) is obey. The Old Testament Hebrew word that means obey is shama. Shama means to listen and obey. There is only one word in Hebrew for obedience, and it is shama. Strong's Concordance # 8085.
https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/H8085/shama`.htm
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/genesis/21-12.htm
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Read through the first three pages of comments, and it is laughingly clear that not ONE SINGLE PERSON actually read with understanding what I wrote in the OP.
ALL EVERYONE DID was to offer their "knee jerk reaction" to the verses/teachings recorded in the OP, and blaming the messenger because that is the best way to vent their anger. Sadly, they manage to simply misunderstand and completely FAIL to read with understanding what was written.
Not surprised. And, apparently, EVERYONE HERE has forgotten WHO IT IS that has stood lock step in keeping with the Biblical belief that women are allowed ALL Authorities that men are. Apparently, ALL HERE soon forgot my Article on Debrah the Prophetiss who sat in judgement of Israel. Far better to simply trash me without actually understanding what I wrote. READING COMPREHENSION TRULY IS AN ART FORM!
Consider this:
. There are numerous Chruch Groups/Denominations that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).
Now, the situation women are faced with is that these writings of the Apostle Paul must be considered Commandments from God,
since their Church Leaders have established that all that the Apostle Paul spoke/wrote WERE Commandments from God.
I have GRAVE FEAR for these women. My heart hurts for them, and I pray for them.
I also do not believe their Church Leaders even recognize the situation THEY have placed their women in!
How do the Church Leaders justify enforcing only one of the Apostles writings while ignoring all the rest? Do they realize that they are commiting their women to live lives in disobedience to God?
So, WHO AM I BLAMING? The women who are caught up in the "teachings of their Church Leaders? OR THE CHURCH LEADERS?"
Apparently EVERYONE HERE HAS FORGOTTEN who it is that continously showed how that ALL THE APOSTLE PAUL WROTE/TAUGHT WERE NOT COMMANDMENTS FROM GOD. How the Apostle Paul taught in TWO DISTINCT ways..........Thus sayeth the Lord (commandments) and It would be better that/I would rather that......(advice given by the Apostle Paul on how to live a life best free of problems)
Six or seven years of defending womens rights within the Church, and ALL ANYONE READS is what I posted ON HOW THEIR CHURCH LEADERS BELIEVE.
My goodness, is it any wonder????????
These women are being placed in a dangerous position by their Church Leaders! WHO ARE THE CHURCH LEADERS?
THEY ARE THE MEN OF THE CHURCH!!!!!!!
goodness, reading comprehension is truly an art form
ALL EVERYONE DID was to offer their "knee jerk reaction" to the verses/teachings recorded in the OP, and blaming the messenger because that is the best way to vent their anger. Sadly, they manage to simply misunderstand and completely FAIL to read with understanding what was written.
Not surprised. And, apparently, EVERYONE HERE has forgotten WHO IT IS that has stood lock step in keeping with the Biblical belief that women are allowed ALL Authorities that men are. Apparently, ALL HERE soon forgot my Article on Debrah the Prophetiss who sat in judgement of Israel. Far better to simply trash me without actually understanding what I wrote. READING COMPREHENSION TRULY IS AN ART FORM!
Consider this:
. There are numerous Chruch Groups/Denominations that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).
Now, the situation women are faced with is that these writings of the Apostle Paul must be considered Commandments from God,
since their Church Leaders have established that all that the Apostle Paul spoke/wrote WERE Commandments from God.
I have GRAVE FEAR for these women. My heart hurts for them, and I pray for them.
I also do not believe their Church Leaders even recognize the situation THEY have placed their women in!
How do the Church Leaders justify enforcing only one of the Apostles writings while ignoring all the rest? Do they realize that they are commiting their women to live lives in disobedience to God?
So, WHO AM I BLAMING? The women who are caught up in the "teachings of their Church Leaders? OR THE CHURCH LEADERS?"
Apparently EVERYONE HERE HAS FORGOTTEN who it is that continously showed how that ALL THE APOSTLE PAUL WROTE/TAUGHT WERE NOT COMMANDMENTS FROM GOD. How the Apostle Paul taught in TWO DISTINCT ways..........Thus sayeth the Lord (commandments) and It would be better that/I would rather that......(advice given by the Apostle Paul on how to live a life best free of problems)
Six or seven years of defending womens rights within the Church, and ALL ANYONE READS is what I posted ON HOW THEIR CHURCH LEADERS BELIEVE.
My goodness, is it any wonder????????
These women are being placed in a dangerous position by their Church Leaders! WHO ARE THE CHURCH LEADERS?
THEY ARE THE MEN OF THE CHURCH!!!!!!!
goodness, reading comprehension is truly an art form
That comment was pasted from Scripture. They do not always spell the same as you or I.... But, thanks.......Just so you read with understanding:
- 1 CORINTHIANS 14:34 KJV "Let your women keep silence in ...
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1-Corinthians-14-34
Let your women keepe silence in the Churches, for it is not permitted vnto them to speake; but they are commanded to bee vnder obedience: as also saith the Law. - King James Version (1611) - View 1611 Bible Scan The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
Sophie, you are a child. You think my being put on ignore by you is some sort of punishment? Like I'm somehow now going to be deprived of your "wisdom"? Some punishment. I hope there aren't more members like you around here, because you behave like a four year old. As long as people like you are posting and have no convictions about their childish behavior, it's going to invite more and more children just like yourself to come be petty with one another instead of discussing the word of God.
But maybe this means I can talk to the adults now, if you don't contaminate this place with your spirit until there's little worth salvaging. I inhabit every forum there is, and when it comes up in discussion I'll be informing them that there's a child over at Christian Chat named "Sophie" who makes it a distasteful place to be when she addresses you. I'm hoping there are enough good people here to counter your spiritual immaturity.
Consider this:
. There are numerous Chruch Groups/Denominations that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).
HOW QUICKLY THEY FORGET:
Women in Scripture
(Part 1)
The Prophetess Deborah.
(2654 - 2694)
The Prophetess Deborah was the fourth of the Judges who ruled over Israel. She is one of the seven Prhopetesses whose prophecies are recorded in the Bible. Deborah lived in the Mountains of Ephraim, between Ramah and Beth-El, where she held Court under a Palm Tree. The entire Jewish nation respected this great prophetess.
The wisest of the Elders of Israel explained that she sat under a palm-tree to show to the world that the Jewish people was all united and turning their eyes again to G‑d, like the leaves of the palm turn upward together, towards heaven. It was fortunate that Deborah had such a tremendous influence. For even the strongest and noblest of the men of those days had given up hope of turning the tide against the Canaanites' oppression and idolatry.
When Deborah was sure that the people of Israel had truly returned to God, she sent for Barak. Barak was the most influential man in Israel at that time. Deborah instructed him to raise an Army of 10,000 men, and gather them at the foot of Mount Tabor.
Barak was to lead his Army against the Canaanites to free Israel from their oppression. Barak refused to attack the Canaanite Army unless Debora when with him. He believed that only with the help of God, and the inspiration of Deborah would his Army have any chance of defeating the Canaanite Army.
Beause of his lack of faith, Deborah told him that she would go, but that the glory of the Victory over the Canaanite Army would not be his, but would fall upon a woman (Jael). It was Jael who actually slew Sisera (the leader of the Canaanite Army) by luring him into her tent where she fed him and gave him wine to drink. When he fell asleep, she drove a tent spike through his temple killing this evil man who had caused so much horror for the Nation of Israel.
Deboras prophecy came true because it was Jael that received all the glory for the victory, and Deborah even glorified Jael in the "Song of Deborah."
In the end, Debora's goal was accomplished and she and Barak led the Jews through fourty years of peace. All that Deborah accomplished was through the direct leadership and blessing of God!
This Story of Deborah is recored in the Book of Judges, Chapter 4, King James Bible.
4) And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
5) And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.
6) And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedeshnaphtali, and said unto him, Hath not the LORD God of Israel commanded, saying, Go and draw toward mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun?
7) And I will draw unto thee to the river Kishon Sisera, the captain of Jabin's army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thine hand.
8) And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, then I will not go.
9) And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.
10) And Barak called Zebulun and Naphtali to Kedesh; and he went up with ten thousand men at his feet: and Deborah went up with him.
11) Now Heber the Kenite, which was of the children of Hobab the father in law of Moses, had severed himself from the Kenites, and pitched his tent unto the plain of Zaanaim, which is by Kedesh.
12) And they shewed Sisera that Barak the son of Abinoam was gone up to mount Tabor.
13) And Sisera gathered together all his chariots, even nine hundred chariots of iron, and all the people that were with him, from Harosheth of the Gentiles unto the river of Kishon.
14) And Deborah said unto Barak, Up; for this is the day in which the LORD hath delivered Sisera into thine hand: is not the LORD gone out before thee? So Barak went down from mount Tabor, and ten thousand men after him.
15) And the LORD discomfited Sisera, and all his chariots, and all his host, with the edge of the sword before Barak; so that Sisera lighted down off his chariot, and fled away on his feet.
16) But Barak pursued after the chariots, and after the host, unto Harosheth of the Gentiles: and all the host of Sisera fell upon the edge of the sword; and there was not a man left.
17) Howbeit Sisera fled away on his feet to the tent of Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite: for there was peace between Jabin the king of Hazor and the house of Heber the Kenite.
18) And Jael went out to meet Sisera, and said unto him, Turn in, my lord, turn in to me; fear not. And when he had turned in unto her into the tent, she covered him with a mantle.
19) And he said unto her, Give me, I pray thee, a little water to drink; for I am thirsty. And she opened a bottle of milk, and gave him drink, and covered him.
20) Again he said unto her, Stand in the door of the tent, and it shall be, when any man doth come and enquire of thee, and say, Is there any man here? that thou shalt say, No.
21) Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died.
22) And, behold, as Barak pursued Sisera, Jael came out to meet him, and said unto him, Come, and I will shew thee the man whom thou seekest. And when he came into her tent, behold, Sisera lay dead, and the nail was in his temples.
23) So God subdued on that day Jabin the king of Canaan before the children of Israel.
24) And the hand of the children of Israel prospered, and prevailed against Jabin the king of Canaan, until they had destroyed Jabin king of Canaan.
My take from this Story of the Prophetess Deborah is that God was quite willing for a woman to have authority over men, and to be a leader of the Jewish Nation! God Himself chose Deborah, and God Himself blessed Deborah and her leadership over the Jews.
p.rehbein
. There are numerous Chruch Groups/Denominations that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).
HOW QUICKLY THEY FORGET:
Women in Scripture
(Part 1)
The Prophetess Deborah.
(2654 - 2694)
The Prophetess Deborah was the fourth of the Judges who ruled over Israel. She is one of the seven Prhopetesses whose prophecies are recorded in the Bible. Deborah lived in the Mountains of Ephraim, between Ramah and Beth-El, where she held Court under a Palm Tree. The entire Jewish nation respected this great prophetess.
The wisest of the Elders of Israel explained that she sat under a palm-tree to show to the world that the Jewish people was all united and turning their eyes again to G‑d, like the leaves of the palm turn upward together, towards heaven. It was fortunate that Deborah had such a tremendous influence. For even the strongest and noblest of the men of those days had given up hope of turning the tide against the Canaanites' oppression and idolatry.
When Deborah was sure that the people of Israel had truly returned to God, she sent for Barak. Barak was the most influential man in Israel at that time. Deborah instructed him to raise an Army of 10,000 men, and gather them at the foot of Mount Tabor.
Barak was to lead his Army against the Canaanites to free Israel from their oppression. Barak refused to attack the Canaanite Army unless Debora when with him. He believed that only with the help of God, and the inspiration of Deborah would his Army have any chance of defeating the Canaanite Army.
Beause of his lack of faith, Deborah told him that she would go, but that the glory of the Victory over the Canaanite Army would not be his, but would fall upon a woman (Jael). It was Jael who actually slew Sisera (the leader of the Canaanite Army) by luring him into her tent where she fed him and gave him wine to drink. When he fell asleep, she drove a tent spike through his temple killing this evil man who had caused so much horror for the Nation of Israel.
Deboras prophecy came true because it was Jael that received all the glory for the victory, and Deborah even glorified Jael in the "Song of Deborah."
In the end, Debora's goal was accomplished and she and Barak led the Jews through fourty years of peace. All that Deborah accomplished was through the direct leadership and blessing of God!
This Story of Deborah is recored in the Book of Judges, Chapter 4, King James Bible.
4) And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
5) And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.
6) And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedeshnaphtali, and said unto him, Hath not the LORD God of Israel commanded, saying, Go and draw toward mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun?
7) And I will draw unto thee to the river Kishon Sisera, the captain of Jabin's army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thine hand.
8) And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, then I will not go.
9) And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.
10) And Barak called Zebulun and Naphtali to Kedesh; and he went up with ten thousand men at his feet: and Deborah went up with him.
11) Now Heber the Kenite, which was of the children of Hobab the father in law of Moses, had severed himself from the Kenites, and pitched his tent unto the plain of Zaanaim, which is by Kedesh.
12) And they shewed Sisera that Barak the son of Abinoam was gone up to mount Tabor.
13) And Sisera gathered together all his chariots, even nine hundred chariots of iron, and all the people that were with him, from Harosheth of the Gentiles unto the river of Kishon.
14) And Deborah said unto Barak, Up; for this is the day in which the LORD hath delivered Sisera into thine hand: is not the LORD gone out before thee? So Barak went down from mount Tabor, and ten thousand men after him.
15) And the LORD discomfited Sisera, and all his chariots, and all his host, with the edge of the sword before Barak; so that Sisera lighted down off his chariot, and fled away on his feet.
16) But Barak pursued after the chariots, and after the host, unto Harosheth of the Gentiles: and all the host of Sisera fell upon the edge of the sword; and there was not a man left.
17) Howbeit Sisera fled away on his feet to the tent of Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite: for there was peace between Jabin the king of Hazor and the house of Heber the Kenite.
18) And Jael went out to meet Sisera, and said unto him, Turn in, my lord, turn in to me; fear not. And when he had turned in unto her into the tent, she covered him with a mantle.
19) And he said unto her, Give me, I pray thee, a little water to drink; for I am thirsty. And she opened a bottle of milk, and gave him drink, and covered him.
20) Again he said unto her, Stand in the door of the tent, and it shall be, when any man doth come and enquire of thee, and say, Is there any man here? that thou shalt say, No.
21) Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died.
22) And, behold, as Barak pursued Sisera, Jael came out to meet him, and said unto him, Come, and I will shew thee the man whom thou seekest. And when he came into her tent, behold, Sisera lay dead, and the nail was in his temples.
23) So God subdued on that day Jabin the king of Canaan before the children of Israel.
24) And the hand of the children of Israel prospered, and prevailed against Jabin the king of Canaan, until they had destroyed Jabin king of Canaan.
My take from this Story of the Prophetess Deborah is that God was quite willing for a woman to have authority over men, and to be a leader of the Jewish Nation! God Himself chose Deborah, and God Himself blessed Deborah and her leadership over the Jews.
p.rehbein
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Who's angry? Your OP read like it became increasingly supportive of the very position you now espouse is the one you opposed.
You start off here by asserting that the following were the apostle Paul's teachings, and then proceed to talk about how women are not to speak in church, must keep silence, are not to teach, should not be allowed to attend Sunday school, and not read a Bible. If you are upset with the way your OP was taken, write things a little more clearly so you are not so easily misunderstood. My apologies for not reading your past history into this, but I just joined this forum.
But I was never angry. The only person I'm angry with is Sophie, but that's because she's acting like an intolerable two year old, LoL.
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I have been here just over six years now and do know you as someone who would
occasionally wade into the Bible discussion forum fray, more often than not to
defend women's rights. My apologies if my posts in this thread offended you.
However, I must add that it did look like something had made you change your stance
on this issue. And I will also add that I am glad to find out that is not the case
occasionally wade into the Bible discussion forum fray, more often than not to
defend women's rights. My apologies if my posts in this thread offended you.
However, I must add that it did look like something had made you change your stance
on this issue. And I will also add that I am glad to find out that is not the case
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And yet, you STILL do not understand......sigh........
For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).
The Article/OP does NOT reflect MY beliefs/teachings.......BUT the beliefs/teachings of the Church Leaders who place women in a "lesser position" in the Church....
How blind are the preconceptionists
For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).
The Article/OP does NOT reflect MY beliefs/teachings.......BUT the beliefs/teachings of the Church Leaders who place women in a "lesser position" in the Church....
How blind are the preconceptionists
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I have been here just over six years now and do know you as someone who would
occasionally wade into the Bible discussion forum fray, more often than not to
defend women's rights. My apologies if my posts in this thread offended you.
However, I must add that it did look like something had made you change your stance
on this issue. And I will also add that I am glad to find out that is not the case
occasionally wade into the Bible discussion forum fray, more often than not to
defend women's rights. My apologies if my posts in this thread offended you.
However, I must add that it did look like something had made you change your stance
on this issue. And I will also add that I am glad to find out that is not the case
IF they are going to teach ONE thing Paul said, then are they not required to teach ALL that Paul said?
I did not change my stance, I posted the "stance" of their Church Leaders, and ignored my personal beliefs...........just as I stated...sadly, no one seemed to understand that.......oh well.
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