THE WOMEN OF THE CHURCH

[p_rehbein]

THE WOMEN OF THE CHURCH

For several weeks now, I have been thinking of the situation of the women in the Church. It has been heavy on my heart, and I have given much thought as to how best present it here on Christian Chat.

I am not arguing any particular Church Group/Denominational Teaching as being right or wrong. That is not the purpose of this Article.

The purpose of this Article is to discuss the situation that millions of women in the Church find themselves. There are numerous Chruch Groups/Denominations that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).

The most taught writing of the Apostle Paul is found in 1 Timothy, Chapter 2:
12) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

The Churches do not allow women to be Pastors, or hold Offices that give them authority over the men of the Congregation based on this writing. And, as far as I know, the millions of women who attend the Churches that teach this, are not rising up in protest. I can not say how they feel in their hearts, or what they think in their minds, but I am not aware of any great movement by the women to protest this teaching of their Church.

The Church Leaders hold that the Apostle Paul was speaking for God, and, thus, this teaching is a Commandment from God. And as such, must be obeyed. I fully agree that the Commandments from God must be obeyed, for Jesus Himself taught this on numerous occasions. One such is found in the 14th Chapter of John: 15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.


The problem is, this is not the only teaching concerning women that the Apostle Paul wrote. 1 Timothy contains other teachings:

9) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10) But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11) Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
The Apostle Paul also stated how a woman would receive salvation:
15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

There are othere Epistles where the Apostle spoke of women. The most notable being 1 Corinthians, Chapter 14:
34) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35) And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

As well, in Titus, Chapter 2 we find:
3) The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

4) That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

5) To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

These are the most know teachings concerning women from the Apostle Paul. Given that it is accepted that the Apostle Paul spoke for God in all he wrote, then all of these teachings must be considered Commandments from God.

And THIS is the situation that millions of women find themselves in!

To be clear, we can show the actual results of the Apostle Paul's teachings:

Women are to keep silence in Church. This means that women are NOT to speak/pray or sing out loud while in the Church Building.

Women are ONLY authorized to teach the young women/girls. However, this teaching can not occur within the Church Building, meaning in a Sunday School Room/Class. For women are forbidden to speak within the Church Building. So, I can only believe that they are to teach the young women at home.

Women are NOT allowed to attend Sunday School Classes, nor are they allowed to own or even read the Holy Bible. The Apostle Paul said "if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home." I can only believe that IF women have a question concerning the Gospel, they are to ask their husbands "at home," and it is the husbands duty to teach his wife the Gospel. In this way, what the women learn from their husbands, they can teach to the young women/girls.

Women are NOT to cut or color or style their hair. Nor are they to wear jewelry or make up. They are to dress in "modest" clothing. The Apostle said:
"9) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;"

Now, the situation women are faced with is that these writings of the Apostle Paul must be considered Commandments from God, since their Church Leaders have established that all that the Apostle Paul spoke/wrote WERE Commandments from God.

Given this, and given that Jesus Himself commanded that we obey Him, the millions of women who are not obedient to ALL of the Apostles writings find themselves living "daily" in disobedience to the Commandments of God!

I do not know if these women even consider this reality, or, if they do, how they justify not obeying ALL the writings of the Apostle Paul?

I have GRAVE FEAR for these women. My heart hurts for them, and I pray for them. I also do not believe their Church Leaders even recognize the situation THEY have placed their women in! How do the Church Leaders justify enforcing only one of the Apostles writings while ignoring all the rest? Do they realize that they are committing their women to live lives in disobedience to God?

I pray that somehow, some way, the Church Leaders that teach concerning women, and the women themselves begin to find a way to rectify this habitual life of disobedience. I have GRAVE FEAR for these women!

Even though the Apostle said they would be "saved in childbearing," he also stated:
15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
To receive their salvation in "childbearing," them MUST live in obedience to Gods Commandments!

I pray that the Church Leaders will sincerely pray and seek to address this dire situation!

Praying for the women of the Church..........

 

[CS1]

THE WOMEN OF THE CHURCH

For several weeks now, I have been thinking of the situation of the women in the Church. It has been heavy on my heart, and I have given much thought as to how best present it here on Christian Chat.

I am not arguing any particular Church Group/Denominational Teaching as being right or wrong. That is not the purpose of this Article.

The purpose of this Article is to discuss the situation that millions of women in the Church find themselves. There are numerous Chruch Groups/Denominations that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).

The most taught writing of the Apostle Paul is found in 1 Timothy, Chapter 2:
12) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

The Churches do not allow women to be Pastors, or hold Offices that give them authority over the men of the Congregation based on this writing. And, as far as I know, the millions of women who attend the Churches that teach this, are not rising up in protest. I can not say how they feel in their hearts, or what they think in their minds, but I am not aware of any great movement by the women to protest this teaching of their Church.

The Church Leaders hold that the Apostle Paul was speaking for God, and, thus, this teaching is a Commandment from God. And as such, must be obeyed. I fully agree that the Commandments from God must be obeyed, for Jesus Himself taught this on numerous occasions. One such is found in the 14th Chapter of John: 15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.


The problem is, this is not the only teaching concerning women that the Apostle Paul wrote. 1 Timothy contains other teachings:

9) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10) But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11) Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
The Apostle Paul also stated how a woman would receive salvation:
15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

There are othere Epistles where the Apostle spoke of women. The most notable being 1 Corinthians, Chapter 14:
34) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35) And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

As well, in Titus, Chapter 2 we find:
3) The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

4) That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

5) To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

These are the most know teachings concerning women from the Apostle Paul. Given that it is accepted that the Apostle Paul spoke for God in all he wrote, then all of these teachings must be considered Commandments from God.

And THIS is the situation that millions of women find themselves in!

To be clear, we can show the actual results of the Apostle Paul's teachings:

Women are to keep silence in Church. This means that women are NOT to speak/pray or sing out loud while in the Church Building.

Women are ONLY authorized to teach the young women/girls. However, this teaching can not occur within the Church Building, meaning in a Sunday School Room/Class. For women are forbidden to speak within the Church Building. So, I can only believe that they are to teach the young women at home.

Women are NOT allowed to attend Sunday School Classes, nor are they allowed to own or even read the Holy Bible. The Apostle Paul said "if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home." I can only believe that IF women have a question concerning the Gospel, they are to ask their husbands "at home," and it is the husbands duty to teach his wife the Gospel. In this way, what the women learn from their husbands, they can teach to the young women/girls.

Women are NOT to cut or color or style their hair. Nor are they to wear jewelry or make up. They are to dress in "modest" clothing. The Apostle said:
"9) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;"

Now, the situation women are faced with is that these writings of the Apostle Paul must be considered Commandments from God, since their Church Leaders have established that all that the Apostle Paul spoke/wrote WERE Commandments from God.

Given this, and given that Jesus Himself commanded that we obey Him, the millions of women who are not obedient to ALL of the Apostles writings find themselves living "daily" in disobedience to the Commandments of God!

I do not know if these women even consider this reality, or, if they do, how they justify not obeying ALL the writings of the Apostle Paul?

I have GRAVE FEAR for these women. My heart hurts for them, and I pray for them. I also do not believe their Church Leaders even recognize the situation THEY have placed their women in! How do the Church Leaders justify enforcing only one of the Apostles writings while ignoring all the rest? Do they realize that they are committing their women to live lives in disobedience to God?

I pray that somehow, some way, the Church Leaders that teach concerning women, and the women themselves begin to find a way to rectify this habitual life of disobedience. I have GRAVE FEAR for these women!

Even though the Apostle said they would be "saved in childbearing," he also stated:
15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
To receive their salvation in "childbearing," them MUST live in obedience to Gods Commandments!

I pray that the Church Leaders will sincerely pray and seek to address this dire situation!

Praying for the women of the Church..........

the opening is in contrast to the closing.

 

[SophieT]

THE WOMEN OF THE CHURCH

For several weeks now, I have been thinking of the situation of the women in the Church. It has been heavy on my heart, and I have given much thought as to how best present it here on Christian Chat.

I am not arguing any particular Church Group/Denominational Teaching as being right or wrong. That is not the purpose of this Article.

The purpose of this Article is to discuss the situation that millions of women in the Church find themselves. There are numerous Chruch Groups/Denominations that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).

The most taught writing of the Apostle Paul is found in 1 Timothy, Chapter 2:
12) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

The Churches do not allow women to be Pastors, or hold Offices that give them authority over the men of the Congregation based on this writing. And, as far as I know, the millions of women who attend the Churches that teach this, are not rising up in protest. I can not say how they feel in their hearts, or what they think in their minds, but I am not aware of any great movement by the women to protest this teaching of their Church.

The Church Leaders hold that the Apostle Paul was speaking for God, and, thus, this teaching is a Commandment from God. And as such, must be obeyed. I fully agree that the Commandments from God must be obeyed, for Jesus Himself taught this on numerous occasions. One such is found in the 14th Chapter of John: 15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.


The problem is, this is not the only teaching concerning women that the Apostle Paul wrote. 1 Timothy contains other teachings:

9) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10) But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11) Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
The Apostle Paul also stated how a woman would receive salvation:
15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

There are othere Epistles where the Apostle spoke of women. The most notable being 1 Corinthians, Chapter 14:
34) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35) And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

As well, in Titus, Chapter 2 we find:
3) The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

4) That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

5) To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

These are the most know teachings concerning women from the Apostle Paul. Given that it is accepted that the Apostle Paul spoke for God in all he wrote, then all of these teachings must be considered Commandments from God.

And THIS is the situation that millions of women find themselves in!

To be clear, we can show the actual results of the Apostle Paul's teachings:

Women are to keep silence in Church. This means that women are NOT to speak/pray or sing out loud while in the Church Building.

Women are ONLY authorized to teach the young women/girls. However, this teaching can not occur within the Church Building, meaning in a Sunday School Room/Class. For women are forbidden to speak within the Church Building. So, I can only believe that they are to teach the young women at home.

Women are NOT allowed to attend Sunday School Classes, nor are they allowed to own or even read the Holy Bible. The Apostle Paul said "if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home." I can only believe that IF women have a question concerning the Gospel, they are to ask their husbands "at home," and it is the husbands duty to teach his wife the Gospel. In this way, what the women learn from their husbands, they can teach to the young women/girls.

Women are NOT to cut or color or style their hair. Nor are they to wear jewelry or make up. They are to dress in "modest" clothing. The Apostle said:
"9) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;"

Now, the situation women are faced with is that these writings of the Apostle Paul must be considered Commandments from God, since their Church Leaders have established that all that the Apostle Paul spoke/wrote WERE Commandments from God.

Given this, and given that Jesus Himself commanded that we obey Him, the millions of women who are not obedient to ALL of the Apostles writings find themselves living "daily" in disobedience to the Commandments of God!

I do not know if these women even consider this reality, or, if they do, how they justify not obeying ALL the writings of the Apostle Paul?

I have GRAVE FEAR for these women. My heart hurts for them, and I pray for them. I also do not believe their Church Leaders even recognize the situation THEY have placed their women in! How do the Church Leaders justify enforcing only one of the Apostles writings while ignoring all the rest? Do they realize that they are committing their women to live lives in disobedience to God?

I pray that somehow, some way, the Church Leaders that teach concerning women, and the women themselves begin to find a way to rectify this habitual life of disobedience. I have GRAVE FEAR for these women!

Even though the Apostle said they would be "saved in childbearing," he also stated:
15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
To receive their salvation in "childbearing," them MUST live in obedience to Gods Commandments!

I pray that the Church Leaders will sincerely pray and seek to address this dire situation!

Praying for the women of the Church..........

does your heart ever get heavy for all the men who profane the name of God by their actions in church?

the pastors who are adulterous liars...the so called teachers that God never called to teach and have basterdized the Bible, those who control rather than lead...and on and on and on

your op is just another sickening example of what so many men enjoy doing to women...control control control

we each have to answer to God for our behavior....I doubt that God ever gave you this as your next 'mission'

this is just another blatant attack on women disguised as 'godly' concern

 

[proverbs35]

does your heart ever get heavy for all the men who profane the name of God by their actions in church?

the pastors who are adulterous liars...the so called teachers that God never called to teach and have basterdized the Bible, those who control rather than lead...and on and on and on

your op is just another sickening example of what so many men enjoy doing to women...control control control

we each have to answer to God for our behavior....I doubt that God ever gave you this as your next 'mission'

this is just another blatant attack on women disguised as 'godly' concern

Unfortunately, countless men (only God knows the exact number) inside and outside of the church really believe controlling and ruling women is their life's mission.

 

[John146]

Now, the situation women are faced with is that these writings of the Apostle Paul must be considered Commandments from God, since their Church Leaders have established that all that the Apostle Paul spoke/wrote WERE Commandments from God.

Church leaders have established this or has God in His word established Paul's writings as the words of God? Are you under the belief that Paul's writings are not of God for the body of Christ?

 

[Dino246]

Wow.

I have no words.

 

[Vindicator]

the opening is in contrast to the closing.

Agreed. What greaves me is the thought of women of God having to read through a piece like that.

Given that it is accepted that the Apostle Paul spoke for God in all he wrote, then all of these teachings must be considered Commandments from God.

P_Rehbein, I'm gonna let you in on some things about your "commandments" here. They are not what you think they are. In every single passage where such things are discussed, it is not discussing men and women but husbands and wives. The translators do a very poor job of communicating this to the modern reader, and confuse people, because they don't translate the original properly in the passages in question.

The Greek words for "men" and "women" can be and are just as often translated "husbands" and "wives" in the NT. As a result, you must look to the context to know which is the correct rendering.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Look very closely at verse 35. This passage is not about women, it is about wives. The proper translation should be:

33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your wives keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for wives to speak in the church.

Notice how he says, "but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law." What law? He is referring to Genesis 3:16, which applies specifically to wives, not women. When you ask for someone to show you where the law states no woman can teach a man, you get dead silence.

Watch again:

Titus 2:3-5KJV
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Again this in not a passage about women. It is a passage about wives. Proper translation should be:

3 The aged (widowed or married) women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young wives to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

That what word of God not be blasphemed? Again, Genesis 3:16. Watch again:

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the wife learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a wife to teach, nor to usurp authority over her husband, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but his wife being deceived was in the transgression.

He was not talking here about women. He was talking about wives, and using the first husband and wife as his example, now relating the entire story in Genesis to his argument.

Why were wives not allowed to teach their husbands? Because when a man and woman enter into a marriage agreement, they agree to become a reflection of marriage between Christ and His bride the church, and the bride does not teach Christ anything. A husband must assume the responsibility to become her teacher in the word as a reflection of Christ to His bride ("husbands love your wives, cleansing them with the washing of the water in the word"), and she must assume the responsibility to hear and obey the word of God coming through him as the bride to Christ ("wives obey your husbands"), which means a man assumes a great responsibility spiritually when he marries. He will be held accountable to God for teaching and leading her accurately. Unmarried women of God do NOT have any of these restrictions on them, which means teaching that all "women" should be in subjection to men is not only a misrepresentation of the actual New Testament teaching, but a rather sexist one at that. The church needs to come out of her outdated mistranslations and misinterpretations of the word of God on this issue. It is an embarrassment to the Spirit of God and His people.

 

[Lanolin]

shouldnt this post be addressed to THE MEN OF THE CHURCH WHO ARE MARRIED

or THE CHILDBEARERS OF THE CHURCH

?

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Every once in a while it would be nice to open a thread about women in the church that has something positive to say.
Women in The Church. My Sisters, God bless them!

 

[RolloTamasi]

THE WOMEN OF THE CHURCH

For several weeks now, I have been thinking of the situation of the women in the Church. It has been heavy on my heart, and I have given much thought as to how best present it here on Christian Chat.

I am not arguing any particular Church Group/Denominational Teaching as being right or wrong. That is not the purpose of this Article.

The purpose of this Article is to discuss the situation that millions of women in the Church find themselves. There are numerous Chruch Groups/Denominations that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).

The most taught writing of the Apostle Paul is found in 1 Timothy, Chapter 2:
12) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

The Churches do not allow women to be Pastors, or hold Offices that give them authority over the men of the Congregation based on this writing. And, as far as I know, the millions of women who attend the Churches that teach this, are not rising up in protest. I can not say how they feel in their hearts, or what they think in their minds, but I am not aware of any great movement by the women to protest this teaching of their Church.

The Church Leaders hold that the Apostle Paul was speaking for God, and, thus, this teaching is a Commandment from God. And as such, must be obeyed. I fully agree that the Commandments from God must be obeyed, for Jesus Himself taught this on numerous occasions. One such is found in the 14th Chapter of John: 15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.


The problem is, this is not the only teaching concerning women that the Apostle Paul wrote. 1 Timothy contains other teachings:

9) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10) But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11) Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
The Apostle Paul also stated how a woman would receive salvation:
15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

There are othere Epistles where the Apostle spoke of women. The most notable being 1 Corinthians, Chapter 14:
34) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35) And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

As well, in Titus, Chapter 2 we find:
3) The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

4) That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

5) To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

These are the most know teachings concerning women from the Apostle Paul. Given that it is accepted that the Apostle Paul spoke for God in all he wrote, then all of these teachings must be considered Commandments from God.

And THIS is the situation that millions of women find themselves in!

To be clear, we can show the actual results of the Apostle Paul's teachings:

Women are to keep silence in Church. This means that women are NOT to speak/pray or sing out loud while in the Church Building.

Women are ONLY authorized to teach the young women/girls. However, this teaching can not occur within the Church Building, meaning in a Sunday School Room/Class. For women are forbidden to speak within the Church Building. So, I can only believe that they are to teach the young women at home.

Women are NOT allowed to attend Sunday School Classes, nor are they allowed to own or even read the Holy Bible. The Apostle Paul said "if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home." I can only believe that IF women have a question concerning the Gospel, they are to ask their husbands "at home," and it is the husbands duty to teach his wife the Gospel. In this way, what the women learn from their husbands, they can teach to the young women/girls.

Women are NOT to cut or color or style their hair. Nor are they to wear jewelry or make up. They are to dress in "modest" clothing. The Apostle said:
"9) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;"

Now, the situation women are faced with is that these writings of the Apostle Paul must be considered Commandments from God, since their Church Leaders have established that all that the Apostle Paul spoke/wrote WERE Commandments from God.

Given this, and given that Jesus Himself commanded that we obey Him, the millions of women who are not obedient to ALL of the Apostles writings find themselves living "daily" in disobedience to the Commandments of God!

I do not know if these women even consider this reality, or, if they do, how they justify not obeying ALL the writings of the Apostle Paul?

I have GRAVE FEAR for these women. My heart hurts for them, and I pray for them. I also do not believe their Church Leaders even recognize the situation THEY have placed their women in! How do the Church Leaders justify enforcing only one of the Apostles writings while ignoring all the rest? Do they realize that they are committing their women to live lives in disobedience to God?

I pray that somehow, some way, the Church Leaders that teach concerning women, and the women themselves begin to find a way to rectify this habitual life of disobedience. I have GRAVE FEAR for these women!

Even though the Apostle said they would be "saved in childbearing," he also stated:
15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
To receive their salvation in "childbearing," them MUST live in obedience to Gods Commandments!

I pray that the Church Leaders will sincerely pray and seek to address this dire situation!

Praying for the women of the Church..........

Acts 15
The Council did, however, retain the prohibitions on eating blood, meat containing blood, and meat of animals that were strangled,
If women can't teach, then we must also obey these rules set down for gentiles.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

THE WOMEN OF THE CHURCH

For several weeks now, I have been thinking of the situation of the women in the Church. It has been heavy on my heart, and I have given much thought as to how best present it here on Christian Chat.

I am not arguing any particular Church Group/Denominational Teaching as being right or wrong. That is not the purpose of this Article.

The purpose of this Article is to discuss the situation that millions of women in the Church find themselves. There are numerous Chruch Groups/Denominations that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).

The most taught writing of the Apostle Paul is found in 1 Timothy, Chapter 2:
12) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

The Churches do not allow women to be Pastors, or hold Offices that give them authority over the men of the Congregation based on this writing. And, as far as I know, the millions of women who attend the Churches that teach this, are not rising up in protest. I can not say how they feel in their hearts, or what they think in their minds, but I am not aware of any great movement by the women to protest this teaching of their Church.

The Church Leaders hold that the Apostle Paul was speaking for God, and, thus, this teaching is a Commandment from God. And as such, must be obeyed. I fully agree that the Commandments from God must be obeyed, for Jesus Himself taught this on numerous occasions. One such is found in the 14th Chapter of John: 15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.


The problem is, this is not the only teaching concerning women that the Apostle Paul wrote. 1 Timothy contains other teachings:

9) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10) But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11) Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
The Apostle Paul also stated how a woman would receive salvation:
15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

There are othere Epistles where the Apostle spoke of women. The most notable being 1 Corinthians, Chapter 14:
34) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35) And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

As well, in Titus, Chapter 2 we find:
3) The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

4) That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

5) To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

These are the most know teachings concerning women from the Apostle Paul. Given that it is accepted that the Apostle Paul spoke for God in all he wrote, then all of these teachings must be considered Commandments from God.

And THIS is the situation that millions of women find themselves in!

To be clear, we can show the actual results of the Apostle Paul's teachings:

Women are to keep silence in Church. This means that women are NOT to speak/pray or sing out loud while in the Church Building.

Women are ONLY authorized to teach the young women/girls. However, this teaching can not occur within the Church Building, meaning in a Sunday School Room/Class. For women are forbidden to speak within the Church Building. So, I can only believe that they are to teach the young women at home.

Women are NOT allowed to attend Sunday School Classes, nor are they allowed to own or even read the Holy Bible. The Apostle Paul said "if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home." I can only believe that IF women have a question concerning the Gospel, they are to ask their husbands "at home," and it is the husbands duty to teach his wife the Gospel. In this way, what the women learn from their husbands, they can teach to the young women/girls.

Women are NOT to cut or color or style their hair. Nor are they to wear jewelry or make up. They are to dress in "modest" clothing. The Apostle said:
"9) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;"

Now, the situation women are faced with is that these writings of the Apostle Paul must be considered Commandments from God, since their Church Leaders have established that all that the Apostle Paul spoke/wrote WERE Commandments from God.

Given this, and given that Jesus Himself commanded that we obey Him, the millions of women who are not obedient to ALL of the Apostles writings find themselves living "daily" in disobedience to the Commandments of God!

I do not know if these women even consider this reality, or, if they do, how they justify not obeying ALL the writings of the Apostle Paul?

I have GRAVE FEAR for these women. My heart hurts for them, and I pray for them. I also do not believe their Church Leaders even recognize the situation THEY have placed their women in! How do the Church Leaders justify enforcing only one of the Apostles writings while ignoring all the rest? Do they realize that they are committing their women to live lives in disobedience to God?

I pray that somehow, some way, the Church Leaders that teach concerning women, and the women themselves begin to find a way to rectify this habitual life of disobedience. I have GRAVE FEAR for these women!

Even though the Apostle said they would be "saved in childbearing," he also stated:
15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
To receive their salvation in "childbearing," them MUST live in obedience to Gods Commandments!

I pray that the Church Leaders will sincerely pray and seek to address this dire situation!

Praying for the women of the Church..........

This topic has been debated a lot just search the forums. In brief these teachers are unbiblical towards women as we use all of Scripture to judge what God expects of men and women. How can you have women prophets and women leaders in scripture but not able to teach? Or why does Paul only address a certain church versus all his other letters? In Acts one of the first church gatherings was orchestrated by a women.

Funny thing is I bet most of these churches have women Sunday school teachers.

 

[RolloTamasi]

Here's an absolute prayer warrior.
She should not be held back due to her gender.

 

[Lanolin]

I dunno I thought the thread would be something dramatic because the heading was in caps. Instead it was just, well nothing much anyone hasnt heard before!

How about this eye catching thread

I WAS A SUNDAY SCHOOL DROPOUT

or I GAVE AWAY ALL MY COSTLY ARRAY

 

[Charlie24]

THE WOMEN OF THE CHURCH

For several weeks now, I have been thinking of the situation of the women in the Church. It has been heavy on my heart, and I have given much thought as to how best present it here on Christian Chat.

I am not arguing any particular Church Group/Denominational Teaching as being right or wrong. That is not the purpose of this Article.

The purpose of this Article is to discuss the situation that millions of women in the Church find themselves. There are numerous Chruch Groups/Denominations that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).

The most taught writing of the Apostle Paul is found in 1 Timothy, Chapter 2:
12) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

The Churches do not allow women to be Pastors, or hold Offices that give them authority over the men of the Congregation based on this writing. And, as far as I know, the millions of women who attend the Churches that teach this, are not rising up in protest. I can not say how they feel in their hearts, or what they think in their minds, but I am not aware of any great movement by the women to protest this teaching of their Church.

The Church Leaders hold that the Apostle Paul was speaking for God, and, thus, this teaching is a Commandment from God. And as such, must be obeyed. I fully agree that the Commandments from God must be obeyed, for Jesus Himself taught this on numerous occasions. One such is found in the 14th Chapter of John: 15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.


The problem is, this is not the only teaching concerning women that the Apostle Paul wrote. 1 Timothy contains other teachings:

9) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10) But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11) Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
The Apostle Paul also stated how a woman would receive salvation:
15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

There are othere Epistles where the Apostle spoke of women. The most notable being 1 Corinthians, Chapter 14:
34) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35) And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

As well, in Titus, Chapter 2 we find:
3) The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

4) That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

5) To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

These are the most know teachings concerning women from the Apostle Paul. Given that it is accepted that the Apostle Paul spoke for God in all he wrote, then all of these teachings must be considered Commandments from God.

And THIS is the situation that millions of women find themselves in!

To be clear, we can show the actual results of the Apostle Paul's teachings:

Women are to keep silence in Church. This means that women are NOT to speak/pray or sing out loud while in the Church Building.

Women are ONLY authorized to teach the young women/girls. However, this teaching can not occur within the Church Building, meaning in a Sunday School Room/Class. For women are forbidden to speak within the Church Building. So, I can only believe that they are to teach the young women at home.

Women are NOT allowed to attend Sunday School Classes, nor are they allowed to own or even read the Holy Bible. The Apostle Paul said "if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home." I can only believe that IF women have a question concerning the Gospel, they are to ask their husbands "at home," and it is the husbands duty to teach his wife the Gospel. In this way, what the women learn from their husbands, they can teach to the young women/girls.

Women are NOT to cut or color or style their hair. Nor are they to wear jewelry or make up. They are to dress in "modest" clothing. The Apostle said:
"9) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;"

Now, the situation women are faced with is that these writings of the Apostle Paul must be considered Commandments from God, since their Church Leaders have established that all that the Apostle Paul spoke/wrote WERE Commandments from God.

Given this, and given that Jesus Himself commanded that we obey Him, the millions of women who are not obedient to ALL of the Apostles writings find themselves living "daily" in disobedience to the Commandments of God!

I do not know if these women even consider this reality, or, if they do, how they justify not obeying ALL the writings of the Apostle Paul?

I have GRAVE FEAR for these women. My heart hurts for them, and I pray for them. I also do not believe their Church Leaders even recognize the situation THEY have placed their women in! How do the Church Leaders justify enforcing only one of the Apostles writings while ignoring all the rest? Do they realize that they are committing their women to live lives in disobedience to God?

I pray that somehow, some way, the Church Leaders that teach concerning women, and the women themselves begin to find a way to rectify this habitual life of disobedience. I have GRAVE FEAR for these women!

Even though the Apostle said they would be "saved in childbearing," he also stated:
15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
To receive their salvation in "childbearing," them MUST live in obedience to Gods Commandments!

I pray that the Church Leaders will sincerely pray and seek to address this dire situation!

Praying for the women of the Church..........

The area where Paul took the Gospel in the surrounding areas of Asia Minor was the most ungodliest area in the Roman Empire. The city of Corinth, where Paul built a church, was noted by the early historians as the single most wicked city in the entire Roman Empire.

You can see from scripture how much trouble Paul has with this church. There were no morals in these places. Not only was Paul tasked with taking the Gospel to these heathens, he was tasked with teaching biblical morals that were virtually nonexistent.

One must put themselves in this scenario that Paul was facing to understand the hard sayings of his epistles! If you don't, you will not understand his intentions and you will take to extremes what he has said.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Acts 15
The Council did, however, retain the prohibitions on eating blood, meat containing blood, and meat of animals that were strangled,
If women can't teach, then we must also obey these rules set down for gentiles.

That verse does not say meat containing blood.

 

[Vindicator]

Every once in a while it would be nice to open a thread about women in the church that has something positive to say.
Women in The Church. My Sisters, God bless them!

Amen. I hate to say it, but too many "men of God" aren't really true men, IMO. Instead of having some sort of perception about the word of God they keep hammering away at women's submission and not in a godly way. The focus isn't on glorifying Christ through marriage, but only on subjecting women to men because they can't deal with them well in personal relationships and don't know how to treat them properly. Hard to read. I truly feel bad for Christian women who have to read this stuff, both married and unmarried.

Maybe a little rough for this forum, but I've been listening to the following lately and it comes to mind. Women of God need to be encouraged not to let their hearts grow cold because of this kind of business. The "old and the blind" need to sit down and stop teaching what they actually know nothing about.

Written by a real man to a woman he loves:

So many lives marching in time
Move to the beat of the old and the blind
Under the skin, hollow within
Sift through the ashes we've all left behind
Oh please, promise me
I'd do anything
I'd do anything

Don't let this cold world change you
Don't ever go astray, and don't you
Fail to keep on giving
Don't fail to show your strength, no
Like so many lives marching in time

Never let go, hold on to hope
Know in your heart that you'll never be alone
I know you will see if you believe
The more that you give, then the less you'll ever need
Oh please, promise me
You're my everything

Don't let this cold world change you
Don't ever go astray, and don't you
Fail to keep on giving
Don't fail to show your strength, no
Like so many lives marching in time

Don't ever forget
This world's not claimed you yet
And all you've come to be
So go in peace...

 

[proverbs35]

Praying for the women of the Church..........

Just curious. Are you praying for the men of the Church as it relates to their disobedience, failures and sin too?

Or are you only concerned with the disobedience, failures and sins of the women in Church?

Have you initiated any threads about the disobedience, failures and sins of the men in the church?

Again, just wondering.

 

[Dino246]

Agreed. What greaves me is the thought of women of God having to read through a piece like that.



P_Rehbein, I'm gonna let you in on some things about your "commandments" here. They are not what you think they are. In every single passage where such things are discussed, it is not discussing men and women but husbands and wives. The translators do a very poor job of communicating this to the modern reader, and confuse people, because they don't translate the original properly in the passages in question.

The Greek words for "men" and "women" can be and are just as often translated "husbands" and "wives" in the NT. As a result, you must look to the context to know which is the correct rendering.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Look very closely at verse 35. This passage is not about women, it is about wives. The proper translation should be:

33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your wives keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for wives to speak in the church.

Notice how he says, "but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law." What law? He is referring to Genesis 3:16, which applies specifically to wives, not women. When you ask for someone to show you where the law states no woman can teach a man, you get dead silence.

Watch again:

Titus 2:3-5KJV
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Again this in not a passage about women. It is a passage about wives. Proper translation should be:

3 The aged (widowed or married) women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young wives to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

That what word of God not be blasphemed? Again, Genesis 3:16. Watch again:

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the wife learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a wife to teach, nor to usurp authority over her husband, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but his wife being deceived was in the transgression.

He was not talking here about women. He was talking about wives, and using the first husband and wife as his example, now relating the entire story in Genesis to his argument.

Why were wives not allowed to teach their husbands? Because when a man and woman enter into a marriage agreement, they agree to become a reflection of marriage between Christ and His bride the church, and the bride does not teach Christ anything. A husband must assume the responsibility to become her teacher in the word as a reflection of Christ to His bride ("husbands love your wives, cleansing them with the washing of the water in the word"), and she must assume the responsibility to hear and obey the word of God coming through him as the bride to Christ ("wives obey your husbands"), which means a man assumes a great responsibility spiritually when he marries. He will be held accountable to God for teaching and leading her accurately. Unmarried women of God do NOT have any of these restrictions on them, which means teaching that all "women" should be in subjection to men is not only a misrepresentation of the actual New Testament teaching, but a rather sexist one at that. The church needs to come out of her outdated mistranslations and misinterpretations of the word of God on this issue. It is an embarrassment to the Spirit of God and His people.

Could you please explain your understanding of Genesis 3:16. You refer to it twice but don’t explain what you think it means.

 

[Vindicator]

Could you please explain your understanding of Genesis 3:16. You refer to it twice but don’t explain what you think it means.

Sure. That she would now be in submission to her husband.

16 To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”

17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
“Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.
18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”

 

[Laura798]

Agreed. What greaves me is the thought of women of God having to read through a piece like that.



P_Rehbein, I'm gonna let you in on some things about your "commandments" here. They are not what you think they are. In every single passage where such things are discussed, it is not discussing men and women but husbands and wives. The translators do a very poor job of communicating this to the modern reader, and confuse people, because they don't translate the original properly in the passages in question.

The Greek words for "men" and "women" can be and are just as often translated "husbands" and "wives" in the NT. As a result, you must look to the context to know which is the correct rendering.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Look very closely at verse 35. This passage is not about women, it is about wives. The proper translation should be:

33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your wives keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for wives to speak in the church.

Notice how he says, "but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law." What law? He is referring to Genesis 3:16, which applies specifically to wives, not women. When you ask for someone to show you where the law states no woman can teach a man, you get dead silence.

Watch again:

Titus 2:3-5KJV
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Again this in not a passage about women. It is a passage about wives. Proper translation should be:

3 The aged (widowed or married) women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young wives to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

That what word of God not be blasphemed? Again, Genesis 3:16. Watch again:

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the wife learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a wife to teach, nor to usurp authority over her husband, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but his wife being deceived was in the transgression.

He was not talking here about women. He was talking about wives, and using the first husband and wife as his example, now relating the entire story in Genesis to his argument.

Why were wives not allowed to teach their husbands? Because when a man and woman enter into a marriage agreement, they agree to become a reflection of marriage between Christ and His bride the church, and the bride does not teach Christ anything. A husband must assume the responsibility to become her teacher in the word as a reflection of Christ to His bride ("husbands love your wives, cleansing them with the washing of the water in the word"), and she must assume the responsibility to hear and obey the word of God coming through him as the bride to Christ ("wives obey your husbands"), which means a man assumes a great responsibility spiritually when he marries. He will be held accountable to God for teaching and leading her accurately. Unmarried women of God do NOT have any of these restrictions on them, which means teaching that all "women" should be in subjection to men is not only a misrepresentation of the actual New Testament teaching, but a rather sexist one at that. The church needs to come out of her outdated mistranslations and misinterpretations of the word of God on this issue. It is an embarrassment to the Spirit of God and His people.

I say this often, but it bears repeating; we must always test scripture against scripture and avoid isolating verses. The whole section is regarding 'ORDER' in the churches. Apparently, the questions during church were causing disorder. We know that there are many Christian women who know the bible far better than their husbands. And some became Christians after they were married, but the husband did not.

Unfortunately, men in leadership have indeed isolated verses and seem to want to make woman less than a man--I wonder what they make of Ruth, Deborah, Jael, Esther, The Proverbs woman, Abigail--all women long before Jesus' time.

I found this article that makes a lot of good points (not that I necessarily agree with all of it)--I've extracted some of it here:

In 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, Paul wrote: “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church” (verses 33-35).
If we take this literally, it would mean that women are not allowed to sing in church nor respond when the pastor asks for comments or questions from the audience. Moreover, it would contradict what Paul said in chapter 11, where he said that women could pray and prophesy in church if they had the appropriate attire.
Common sense, church custom, and good principles of biblical interpretation all say that we should not take these verses literally—

A call to order
In 1 Corinthians 11, Paul begins to instruct the Corinthian church about their somewhat disorganized worship services....

Church, law, and society
Paul has already indicated that women can pray and prophesy in church (chapter 11), and a worship service includes two or three people prophesying in turn (14:29-32). This means that it is permissible for women to have formal speaking roles in the church. Paul was apparently forbidding some other type of speech. ...

1) We know very little about how first-century churches functioned, except for what the New Testament tells us—and the picture is one of variety. Some churches were led by apostles and elders; others by prophets and teachers; some by overseers or elders or deacons. Although we know the names of a number of influential men and women, we can associate those names with specific titles in only a few cases. We know even less about how a typical worship service was conducted; 1 Cor. 14 is the primary evidence.
2) We have surveyed the Old Testament, and find no prohibition on women speaking in public....

Conclusion
Although we cannot answer all questions about the specific situation Paul was addressing in Corinth, we do conclude that he was addressing a specific situation rather than making a general prohibition on women speaking in church. His intent was to prohibit disruptive and disrespectful questions and comments that were part of the chaotic Corinthian meetings—and in Corinth, these particular practices were coming from the women. Just as he told the disorderly tongues-speakers and prophets to control themselves because God is not a God of disorder, he also told the women to control themselves because the law teaches self-control. If they want to learn something, they can ask questions somewhere else.[43]
Only one person should speak at a time. Everyone else, whether male or female, should be quiet, for it is disgraceful for people in the audience to be talking while someone else is speaking to the group. Just as Paul’s call for tongues-speakers or prophets to be silent should not be turned into a demand that they never say anything at all, so also his call for women to be quiet should not be turned into a demand that they never give messages of spiritual value in church. That is something that Paul specifically allows in chapter 11.

https://learn.gcs.edu/mod/book/view.php?id=4261&chapterid=12