Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
1-John5-11-13s.png

1 John 5:11-13
:)
 
What is Antinomianism?

The word antinomianism comes from two Greek words, anti, meaning "against"; and nomos, meaning "law." Antinomianism means “against the law.” Theologically, antinomianism is the belief that there are no moral laws God expects Christians to obey. Antinomianism takes a biblical teaching to an unbiblical conclusion. The biblical teaching is that Christians are not required to observe the Old Testament Law as a means of salvation. When Jesus Christ died on the cross, He fulfilled the Old Testament Law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15). The unbiblical conclusion is that there is no moral law God expects Christians to obey.

The apostle Paul dealt with the issue of antinomianism in Romans 6:1-2, “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” The most frequent attack on the doctrine of salvation by grace alone is that it encourages sin. People may wonder, “If I am saved by grace and all my sins are forgiven, why not sin all I want?” That thinking is not the result of true conversion because true conversion yields a greater desire to obey, not a lesser one. God’s desire—and our desire when we are regenerated by His Spirit—is that we strive not to sin. Out of gratitude for His grace and forgiveness, we want to please Him. God has given us His infinitely gracious gift in salvation through Jesus (John 3:16; Romans 5:8). Our response is to consecrate our lives to Him out of love, worship, and gratitude for what He has done for us (Romans 12:1-2). Antinomianism is unbiblical in that it misapplies the meaning of God’s gracious favor.

A second reason that antinomianism is unbiblical is that there is a moral law God expects us to obey. First John 5:3 tells us, “This is love for God: to obey His commands. And His commands are not burdensome.” What is this law God expects us to obey? It is the law of Christ – “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:37-40). No, we are not under the Old Testament Law. Yes, we are under the law of Christ. The law of Christ is not an extensive list of legal codes. It is a law of love. If we love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, we will do nothing to displease Him. If we love our neighbors as ourselves, we will do nothing to harm them. Obeying the law of Christ is not a requirement to earn or maintain salvation. The law of Christ is what God expects of a Christian.

Antinomianism is contrary to everything the Bible teaches. God expects us to live a life of morality, integrity, and love. Jesus Christ freed us from the burdensome commands of the Old Testament Law, but that is not a license to sin. Rather, it is a covenant of grace. We are to strive to overcome sin and cultivate righteousness, depending on the Holy Spirit to help us. The fact that we are graciously freed from the demands of the Old Testament Law should result in our living our lives in obedience to the law of Christ. First John 2:3-6 declares, “We know that we have come to know Him if we obey His commands. The man who says, ‘I know Him,’ but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys His word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in Him: Whoever claims to live in Him must walk as Jesus did.”

https://www.gotquestions.org/antinomianism.html

Note; I do not endorse any particular organization--some have good solid info that align with scripture, whereas I may differ on some of their doctrinal stances in other articles.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Phoneman-777
Grandpa said:
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


How could Paul keep writing this, over and over, in every one of his epistles if he wanted people to keep the saturday sabbath because it is in the Law???

Don't you know that would make him contradict his own word?

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


Paul is saying that those who are under the law are obligated to do ALL the things written in the Book of the Law. That means if you are going to "keep" a saturday sabbath then you have to do ALL the other things as well. That means you are practicing JUDAISM and not CHRISTIANITY.

Galatians 3:11-12
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.


How can you attempt to teach when you don't understand scripture? Don't you think you should learn before you teach?
Click to expand...

Thats true, we not under the law, but which is it that we are not under? Let's read with understanding (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.

(v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. (1John 3:4)

(v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law.

How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus.

(v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster.

And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law. Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. So when you quoted all the places in the Bible that do away with this animal sacrificial law, not understanding that Paul talks about two sets of law. The Royal law (Ten Commandments) and the animal sacrificial law sometimes in the same verse you bring destruction to yourselves.
 
Phoneman-777 said:
Antinomianists argue that Jesus will say to the many who cry "Lord Lord" in the judgment, "I never knew you, depart from Me", and insist this means those who will be lost were never known by Jesus, and thus never saved.

I always point out that one little word "many" and remind them "many" does not mean "all".

Yes, there will be "many" unknown to Jesus who swung their arms in church and performed miracles by the power of devils, but there will also be those among "all" who wind up in the Lake of Fire those who were fully converted, grace saved Christians but kicked Jesus off the throne of their heart and took His place there, and wound up lost. The Unmerciful Servant, the capitulating canine, the washed sow, the man again entangled in the polluted world, the "many" who allowed abounding inequity to kill their agape love cold and dead, the enlightened recipients of the Holy Spirit that wind up fallen away into impenitence, etc....all these attest to the fact that Jesus will have fully known some who wind up splitting hell wide open.
Click to expand...


That's right Jesus says in (Matt. 7:21-23) (v.21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. People we must do more than call on the name of the Lord to enter into the kingdom of heaven? (Which will be set up on this earth)? (v.22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? (v.23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Now this is not the harlot, the thief, or the murder, these are religious people; some had the power to cast out devils. And what did they put before the Lord? Their works! It’s obvious that their iniquity overrode their wonderful works. But they put their works on the table before the Lord, that’s what you are going to be judged by, your works!

Keeping of God’s holy laws is that separates the righteous from the unrighteous and the Saints from the Sinners. (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. We must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved. Jesus says in (Matt. 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. You are supposed to glorify your Father in heaven, and let your light shine before men. And how do you do that? By having good works. Sometimes as a Christian you don’t have to say a word, people will see your works.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Phoneman-777
Laura798 said:
Antinomianism is contrary to everything the Bible teaches. God expects us to live a life of morality, integrity, and love. Jesus Christ freed us from the burdensome commands of the Old Testament Law, but that is not a license to sin. Rather, it is a covenant of grace. We are to strive to overcome sin and cultivate righteousness, depending on the Holy Spirit to help us.
Click to expand...

What is sin but the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4)?
 
Laura798 said:
There is a difference between the Mosaic Law with its sacrifices and the 10 Commandments--are you saying people can now commit adultery, steal, --that they can break all of the commandments--they are a WHOLE--we can't pick and choose. All my life I gathered for assembly on Sunday which nearly all Christendom does--in fact Sunday has been called the Sabbath since Constantine issued it as the official day of rest. "He will seek to change times and laws". However, I began to study this recently and realize you can't change the Sabbath--it is one of the 10 Commandments. Jesus said, "If you love me keep my commandments." John 5:3 says, "In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome."

We read in the book of Acts that Paul was in the synagogue every Sabbath teaching; the believers, both Jews and Gentiles met on the Sabbath day at the synagogue and they also met every day in their homes. People like to quote Jesus is our Sabbath rest--but that does not mean he is the literal Sabbath day, it is a figurative term meaning we can rest from the works of the LAW--it's not about physically resting from our work. It is not only a day of rest given to us by God but it is a day to remember his finished work of creation, which so many Christians don't even see as important--you will find many who believe in evolution. This is NOT about legalism--Jesus said "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath."

note; people also like to quote the verse, "let know one judge you regarding meat or drink, or a sabbath day--A sabbath day is NOT the same as THE Sabbath day--'a' sabbath day are the special high holy days--like some Christians celebrate Christmas and Easter.
Click to expand...
Your argument is with Paul and Holy Scripture.

Surely you didn't misunderstand the simple scriptures that were posted?
 
Phoneman-777 said:
Antinomianists of today are no different than the Pharisees of Scripture: both claim the promises of God's favor but reject the condition upon which they are to be claimed: total surrender of the heart.

Antinomianists use verses which condemn the specific heresy of attempting to use obedience as a means to obtain salvation, as blanket condemnation for the general, much broader idea of "reasonable service" we are to render to God in the keeping of His commandments, and cling desperately to the false idea that we may by dead faith obtain that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.
Click to expand...
Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

:ROFL:

Galatians 3:11-12
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
 
Phoneman-777 said:
Perhaps you missed the part where I back up my spiritual propositions with Scripture hyperlinks in my posts so everyone can read the truth for themselves? Yes, I'm sure you did.
Click to expand...
I saw where you contradict scripture with your silly philosophy.

Anyone who takes the time to read the actual scripture will see you are wrong. Gross Conceptual Error.

You desperately need a Christian to show you what actual Christianity is.
 
BroTan said:
Thats true, we not under the law, but which is it that we are not under? Let's read with understanding (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.

(v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. (1John 3:4)

(v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law.

How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus.

(v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster.

And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law. Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. So when you quoted all the places in the Bible that do away with this animal sacrificial law, not understanding that Paul talks about two sets of law. The Royal law (Ten Commandments) and the animal sacrificial law sometimes in the same verse you bring destruction to yourselves.
Click to expand...
Was it "animal sacrifice" law that brought you to Christ?

NO, how absurd. No one sacrifices animals.

But LOADS of people work at the 10 commandments. Even though they don't understand what they say they use their imagination and PRETEND to keep the 10 commandments.

This is what the 10 commandments tell YOU;

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Once you figure out that you can't obey the 10 commandments that should bring you to Christ for His Help.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jocund
BroTan said:
Sometimes as a Christian you don’t have to say a word, people will see your works.
Click to expand...

Yes, but our goal isn't notoriety among people.

"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly." - Matthew 6:1-4 KJV
 
Grandpa said:
Your argument is with Paul and Holy Scripture.

Surely you didn't misunderstand the simple scriptures that were posted?
Click to expand...

No. Did you?:unsure:

Jesus said, "If you love me keep my commandments." --John 14:15

"In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome."--John 5:3
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1ofthem and Yahshua
Laura798 said:
No. Did you?:unsure:

Jesus said, "If you love me keep my commandments." --John 14:15

"In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome."--John 5:3
Click to expand...

"To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law." - 1 Cor 9:21 KJV

What did Paul mean by this if not as an extension of the concept that Christ fulfils the law and that by following Christ's law one satisfies the requirements of the OT law and its commandments?

How else would you rationalize passages like this where Paul states that is acceptable to not circumcise males? That it is acceptable to not avoid idols or things deemed unclean in the OT? That everyone should be convinced in their own mind about how to esteem the days? This isn't lawlessness, this is fulfilment of the law through Christ and the law of Christ.
 
Jocund said:
"To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law." - 1 Cor 9:21 KJV

What did Paul mean by this if not as an extension of the concept that Christ fulfils the law and that by following Christ's law one satisfies the requirements of the OT law and its commandments?

How else would you rationalize passages like this where Paul states that is acceptable to not circumcise males? That it is acceptable to not avoid idols or things deemed unclean in the OT? That everyone should be convinced in their own mind about how to esteem the days? This isn't lawlessness, this is fulfilment of the law through Christ and the law of Christ.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, Jocund--so you believe it is okay to believe some of Christ's teaching and not all of them? Have you whited out the verses I posted out of your bible or do you simply choose to ignore them?

"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose."--Philippians 2:12-13
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back