If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?

Laura798 · Nov 28, 2021

Again, HFNR,

Judas was referred to as 'the son of perdition' and the anti-christ is referred by this name as well, not Satan.

And apologies, but my questions was addressed to Joe--I wanted to know from his previous post who he thought the son of perdition was--if I address someone by name I am asking them directly a question in response to something they posted. if it's general it's fine to respond, but in this case it will become confusing to have a different person answering the question.

pittsburghjoe · Nov 28, 2021

the son of perdition is the seed of satan. it was probably nero. he attacked Christians for 42 months.

@Pilgrimshope @Laura798

Would someone please comment on #612?

If Heaven and Earth already passed, The Kingdom must be Active Right Now.

Angela53510 · Nov 28, 2021

John146 said:

Coming in very late. The Kingdom of God is the same thing as the Kingdom of heaven.

Matthew is writing to Jewish Christians. They do not like to use the word "God." At most, they will leave out the vowel, G-D. The other gospel writers, not writing to the Jews, but Greeks, and others, can use the word "God" because it is not forbidden in Gentile society.

A good way to check this, is to seek out parallel passages in the Synoptic gospels. Matthew will say "Kingdom of Heaven" whereas Mark & Luke will use, "Kingdom of God!

"Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” Matt. 19:14

"He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the He said, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, belongs to such as these." Mark 10:14

"But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these." Like 18:16

Of course, there more examples of this parallelism, where Matthew uses "Kingdom of Heaven" and Mark & Luke use "Kingdom of God!" The only difference is who the author is writing to.

Matthew uses "kingdom of heaven" 31 times, and only 5 times for the "kingdom of God."

Mark does not use "Kingdom of heaven" at all, but uses the "Kingdom of God" 15 times.

Luke does not use "Kingdom of heaven" at all, but "Kingdom of God" 31 times.

Another example:
"Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up." Matt. 13:3-4 to 9
"He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them." Matt -3:11

"Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up." Mark 4:3-4 to verse 8.
"He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables" Mark 4:11.
"
A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds ate it up." Luke 8:5
"He said, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables," Luke 8:10

Many more examples of this in the Synoptic Gospels. Synoptic means with one eye! John is very different, written much later. I challenge you to find other places in the 3 gospels, where the story or parable is the same, but Matthew used "Kingdom of Heaven" and Mark & Luke use "Kingdom of God!"

Pilgrimshope · Nov 28, 2021

Laura798 said:

ahh

no more important" and "equally important" are not the same things.

how so ? ?? Can you explain how saying the cross is no more important Thy an his word , and saying they are both equally important is a contradiction ? Seems like your avoiding the point completely and parroting “ the finished works of the cross erases Jesus word “ doctrine which was why I spoke up earlier to begin with

the cross can’t save anybody but the lord who lived and then died on it and rose up again can save anyone who turns to him

but if one believes what he said it’s pretty clear that his word and him shedding the blood of his covenant are both required for salvation

we can try to be saved another way than what Jesus said but I wouldn’t advise it

Pilgrimshope · Nov 28, 2021

pittsburghjoe said:

Jesus was preaching to Jews all born under the law of Moses and circumcised. So every one of them was beholden to every jot and tittle of the law.

he says “ I didn’t come to destroy the law and prophets but to fulfill them “ the. He says nothing will change until all is fulfilled

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,

till all be fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The way I myself here it he’s explaining I came to fulfil the law and prophets nothing will change ever , until all is fulfilled

later after Jesus death and resurrection he explains what he was saying there

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So I can only offer my thought I believe Jesus was telling them nothing would change in the law until he fulfilled it which is what he did.

I don’t read it as he’s saying nothing will change ever until the end of the world ,

I think he’s saying “ nothing will change in the law until the end of the world , until it’s fulfilled , which I have come to do “

Which makes sense to me not sure of ot does to others but it seems like those born before Jesus died and who were Jews were all beholden to the law of Moses and it was fulfilled when Christ doed for the sinners condemned by law

it’s not that the law doesn’t exist ot is that when we get baptized God recognizes that we have died with Christ for our sins and now are being raised up to a new life in him

when a sinner dies under the law it’s fulfilled upon them “ Thou shalt not commit adultery , anyone who does must surely be put to death “ once the adulterer is out to death the law is fulfilled because it says nothing about after death.

it just puts a sinner to death and Thy y cease to exist under the law they have died that’s what Jesus death is about it’s transferred to us so we have the law fulfilled that says “ this person sinned and must die “ so what we do it this

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:

that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The significance of this means the law has been completed the person sinned and we’re out to death with Christ for their sins now they are released through death from the law it’s been fulfilled upon them it ends at death and has no more dominion

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

….Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;

that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so when we say the law is fulfilled we’re talking about for a baptized Christian into Christs death now the law recognizes this sinner had died with Christ in baptism for their sins

once we die the law is fulfilled for us. So what he said there was before his death to Jews beholden to the law until he died and fulfilled the law nothing could change not even one word from Moses law now for a baptized Christian the law has put them to death and it does appears for the dead person who now is married to the law of life , the gospel. which actually teaches us righteousness and how to live a pleasing life to God so we can live a new and better life after the law was fulfilled in death

now we have a covenant of life everlasting

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24

of you notice actually Jesus says a lot “ Moses told you this thing to do but I’m telling you this other thing to do so for instance

Moses law states this

“Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭21:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus brings this to Light and then tells us his opposite word

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-39‬

Moses law said if someone harmed you you were to exact equal revenge eye for an eye justice . Jesus said you have heard that before but I’m telling you don’t do that but instead of someone harms you don’t retaliate be peaceful

what Jesus said is different contrary to what Moses said there was always another better law coming when the messiah arrived

“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people. My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬

that’s written hindreds of years after Moses law had been given. Yet he’s promising new law to proceed forth from him . A law of light and life .

I believe that when we’re baptized God recognizes our death to the law and that means the sinner died and the law ended for them

Laura798 · Nov 28, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

I've never heard anyone make this kind of argument--to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ means you believe in who He is, His ministry and miracles,and that He paid the penalty on the cross for our sins--without this VERY important action there is NO Salvation.

and this is only a partial truth: "the cross can’t save anybody but the lord who lived and then died on it and rose up again can save anyone who turns to him" because the Word says:

"22 ....the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins."--Hebrews 9:22

peldom10 · Nov 28, 2021

Charlie24 said:

Jesus is definitely going to have His Kingdom on this earth!

When most folks read John 18:36 they fail to read the last line in that verse.

"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."

Because the Jews rejected Him the Kingdom was delayed. Of course God knew this would happen.

He came to set up His Kingdom on earth but the Jews rejected Him and now for the past 2000 years or so the Kingdom of God has been delayed.

The Jews were to accept Christ and introduce the Messiah to the world, but they failed, and God chose the Church to carry out this mission. We must realize that the Church is God's second choice! His original choice was His chosen people, the Jews!

The Second Coming is when Jesus sets up His Kingdom on this earth.

Matt. 25:31-32

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

This is when the Kingdom Age begins on earth with Christ reigning from David's throne in Jerusalem.

Much to be said, but I'll stop here for now.

The future kingdom is reflected and confirmed here;.........thy kingdom comes thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.....
Clearly depicting a new future formed kingdom.

Pilgrimshope · Nov 28, 2021

Laura798 said:

Lol yes again I haven’t ever said anyone can be saved without believing Jesus does and rose that’s a straw man you have invented and credited to me your arguing against a phantom that’s probably why you haven’t heard that before you still haven’t because I haven’t said that

one more try Jesus words are required for us to believe , equally important to believing he died and rose

the cross doesn’t cancel
Out what Jesus said will save man and what he said doesn’t eliminate his death and resurrection

your right we have to believe Jesus everything about him is the gospel including his words of eternal life of one says I believe Jesus does and rose um doesn’t Satan and his angels also know that ? And it’s not going to save them

what saves us is to accept e whole gospel this is where it was preached

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

…..Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1, 14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

my point is pretty simple and it isn’t that Jesus death and resurrection don’t count or are less important than his word , I’m saying we have to believe the gospel Jesus preached one with his death and resurrection that should be pretty clear since you aren’t wanting to just argue for the sake of it

simply the death and resurrection of Jesus is essential just exactly like hearing and believing the gospel of the kingdom is essential . They are both required

now you shouldn’t be able to make Thy argument that I’m saying his death and resurrection aren’t essential for salvstion , but you should know what I’m saying is you can’t accept the cross d reject his word or you can’t accept his word and reject the value of his death

we’re just supposed to believe the gospel that includes what he preached
It’s the reason he was sent and anointed with the Holy Ghost to speak the truth to mankind

“And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭4:17-19, 21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if you arent clear that’s Isaiah chapter 61 foretelling Jesus would come and preach the gospel of salvation and later die for our sins and rose from death

but his mission included to forst preach the word of God That gives eternal life to the believer . His death and resurrection are essential but so is believing his word

Laura798 · Nov 28, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

"When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 3I"--1st Corinthians 2:1-2

pittsburghjoe · Nov 28, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

Jesus was preaching to Jews all born under the law of Moses and circumcised. So every one of them was beholden to every jot and tittle of the law.

he says “ I didn’t come to destroy the law and prophets but to fulfill them “ the. He says nothing will change until all is fulfilled

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,

till all be fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The way I myself here it he’s explaining I came to fulfil the law and prophets nothing will change ever , until all is fulfilled

later after Jesus death and resurrection he explains what he was saying there

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So I can only offer my thought I believe Jesus was telling them nothing would change in the law until he fulfilled it which is what he did.

I don’t read it as he’s saying nothing will change ever until the end of the world ,

I think he’s saying “ nothing will change in the law until the end of the world , until it’s fulfilled , which I have come to do “

Which makes sense to me not sure of ot does to others but it seems like those born before Jesus died and who were Jews were all beholden to the law of Moses and it was fulfilled when Christ doed for the sinners condemned by law

it’s not that the law doesn’t exist ot is that when we get baptized God recognizes that we have died with Christ for our sins and now are being raised up to a new life in him

when a sinner dies under the law it’s fulfilled upon them “ Thou shalt not commit adultery , anyone who does must surely be put to death “ once the adulterer is out to death the law is fulfilled because it says nothing about after death.

it just puts a sinner to death and Thy y cease to exist under the law they have died that’s what Jesus death is about it’s transferred to us so we have the law fulfilled that says “ this person sinned and must die “ so what we do it this

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:

that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The significance of this means the law has been completed the person sinned and we’re out to death with Christ for their sins now they are released through death from the law it’s been fulfilled upon them it ends at death and has no more dominion

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

….Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;

that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so when we say the law is fulfilled we’re talking about for a baptized Christian into Christs death now the law recognizes this sinner had died with Christ in baptism for their sins

once we die the law is fulfilled for us. So what he said there was before his death to Jews beholden to the law until he died and fulfilled the law nothing could change not even one word from Moses law now for a baptized Christian the law has put them to death and it does appears for the dead person who now is married to the law of life , the gospel. which actually teaches us righteousness and how to live a pleasing life to God so we can live a new and better life after the law was fulfilled in death

now we have a covenant of life everlasting

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24

of you notice actually Jesus says a lot “ Moses told you this thing to do but I’m telling you this other thing to do so for instance

Moses law states this

“Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭21:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus brings this to Light and then tells us his opposite word

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-39‬

Moses law said if someone harmed you you were to exact equal revenge eye for an eye justice . Jesus said you have heard that before but I’m telling you don’t do that but instead of someone harms you don’t retaliate be peaceful

what Jesus said is different contrary to what Moses said there was always another better law coming when the messiah arrived

“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people. My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬

that’s written hindreds of years after Moses law had been given. Yet he’s promising new law to proceed forth from him . A law of light and life .

I believe that when we’re baptized God recognizes our death to the law and that means the sinner died and the law ended for them

You just spelled out how satan is bound.

Can The Law be Heaven and Earth passing away (The Old Covenant)?

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Pilgrimshope · Nov 28, 2021

Laura798 said:

ah so Paul surely didn’t preach this ?

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-7‬ ‭

should we reject Paul’s letters unless they seem to say “ I said nothing but the cross ? When obviously he preached the gospel of the kingdom ?

Paul must not have done this then probably ?

“And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and for sure Paul would never say you must believe Jesus words would he since he didn’t say anything but the cross the cross ?

“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭6:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

must be another Paul probably since you quoted a scripture saying he preached none of That stuff just Jesus died and rose now everyone’s saved the end

Paul taught everything Jesus taught eternal judgement based upon our works

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2

I think you are misunderstanding that verse Paul’s doctrine was no different than anyone else’s he preached the same things they all
Did which is everything Jesus taught

Laura798 · Nov 28, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

Lol yes again I haven’t ever said anyone can be saved without believing Jesus does and rose that’s a straw man you have invented and credited to me your arguing against a phantom that’s probably why you haven’t heard that before you still haven’t because I haven’t said that

one more try Jesus words are required for us to believe , equally important to believing he died and rose

the cross doesn’t cancel
Out what Jesus said will save man and what he said doesn’t eliminate his death and resurrection

your right we have to believe Jesus everything about him is the gospel including his words of eternal life of one says I believe Jesus does and rose um doesn’t Satan and his angels also know that ? And it’s not going to save them

what saves us is to accept e whole gospel this is where it was preached

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

…..Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1, 14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

my point is pretty simple and it isn’t that Jesus death and resurrection don’t count or are less important than his word , I’m saying we have to believe the gospel Jesus preached one with his death and resurrection that should be pretty clear since you aren’t wanting to just argue for the sake of it

simply the death and resurrection of Jesus is essential just exactly like hearing and believing the gospel of the kingdom is essential . They are both required

now you shouldn’t be able to make Thy argument that I’m saying his death and resurrection aren’t essential for salvstion , but you should know what I’m saying is you can’t accept the cross d reject his word or you can’t accept his word and reject the value of his death

we’re just supposed to believe the gospel that includes what he preached
It’s the reason he was sent and anointed with the Holy Ghost to speak the truth to mankind

“And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭4:17-19, 21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if you arent clear that’s Isaiah chapter 61 foretelling Jesus would come and preach the gospel of salvation and later die for our sins and rose from death

but his mission included to forst preach the word of God That gives eternal life to the believer . His death and resurrection are essential but so is believing his word

Straw Man?

I am merely explaining what I believe to be the essential truths of the gospel. And of course we must not only believe, but practice what Christ taught! I am not of the 'it's all about grace, let's just do what we want camp'--it's obvious what that has done to the church. ' I believe what Jesus said: "If you love me keep my commandments.."

You say: "if you arent clear that’s Isaiah chapter 61 foretelling Jesus would come and preach the gospel of salvation and later die for our sins and rose from death"

Pilgrim you have some wisdom, but you don't seem able to recognize that others do as well--I get the sense that you are trying somehow to 'set me straight'. I'm baffled by this--have you read any of my other posts? I find it frustrating when I am certainly your equal in regards to my knowledge of scripture.

Pilgrimshope · Nov 28, 2021

pittsburghjoe said:

I think of you look at it more personally how of you died , this world and the law of it , died to you

“Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:20‬ ‭

Paul was baptized into Christs death also so as he taught about baptism consider it personal to you

“But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the value of the cross it doesn’t save us but it gives us a new covenant life with God under the Christ rather than the angels of Moses law who wouldn’t forgive. Everyone is going to die to the world Christians can do that now and live for Christ and his kingdom by simply learning and believing and following his gospel as we learn we grow and walk better but the understanding that we’re not flesh people any longer is important this world is temporal we are not citizens of a temporal realm but we dwell in spirit with Christ Jesus our lord and hero

“And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

our blessings are in heaven where our home is this world has already disappeared to those of faith so I think o see what you were getting at now a spiritual ending of the world to Christians who choose Christ over the world

Pilgrimshope · Nov 28, 2021

Laura798 said:

Um lol nope I’m not trying to set you straight

and yes the straw man you built and credited to me and then argued against how you e never heard an argument like that it’s because that’s not what I said

so in a discussion when we want to avoid the conversation I might create an argument you didn’t say and then argue against how ridiculous it is that’s me creating a straw man to argue with and avoid the point made by you

so when you were arguing that I was saying Jesus death and resurrection wasn’t essential that was the straw man you made .

but anyways seems we’re just we arguing at this point lol so I digress I would just offer the scripture I started with and tell you God bless

My only point ever was to accept Jesus death and resurrection and then claim his word doesn’t apply won’t save anyone because we’re doing this

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so my goal was to discuss that the cross doesn’t change or erase Jesus words he preached and said “ believe me and you will never be condemned “ that’s pretty important stuff

anyways have a great evening and sister your free to believe any and everything you believe a doscussion is often going to have opposing views though . And it doesn’t mean someone’s “ setting you straight “ it just means we have different opinions who ch I think I’ve made mine as well as possible and I have read your view many times “ the finished work of the cross “ leaves a lot to be desired when it’s examined it’s for the point of removing Jesus words that’s just my take though and your free to yours

Laura798 · Nov 28, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

ah so Paul surely didn’t preach this ?

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-7‬ ‭

should we reject Paul’s letters unless they seem to say “ I said nothing but the cross ? When obviously he preached the gospel of the kingdom ?

Paul must not have done this then probably ?

“And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and for sure Paul would never say you must believe Jesus words would he since he didn’t say anything but the cross the cross ?

“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭6:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

must be another Paul probably since you quoted a scripture saying he preached none of That stuff just Jesus died and rose now everyone’s saved the end

Paul taught everything Jesus taught eternal judgement based upon our works

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2

I think you are misunderstanding that verse Paul’s doctrine was no different than anyone else’s he preached the same things they all
Did which is everything Jesus taught

"
Please re-read what you send before posting--your sentence structure is not clear here as well as elsewhere e.g. '
"I think you are misunderstanding that verse Paul’s doctrine was no different than anyone else’s he preached the same things they all
Did which is everything Jesus taught"

and this..
must be another Paul probably since you quoted a scripture saying he preached none of That stuff just Jesus died and rose now everyone’s saved the end < no idea what you are referring to here.

I really have no clue whatsoever how this addresses anything in the post you are responding to Your argument makes no sense.

It's like you're arguing the point that the sky is blue when I and everyone else knows that--it's like beating a dead horse. You will find nowhere in my posting where I say we don't have to follow the teaching of Christ--this is preposterous!

Pilgrimshope · Nov 28, 2021

Laura798 said:

Naw I’m good on re reading and all that

and yeah I didn’t say you said that …I was saying the cross isn’t everything and we also have to accept his word , the end

anyways this conversation is a fruitless one for us so let’s move on

Laura798 · Nov 28, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

Um lol nope I’m not trying to set you straight

and yes the straw man you built and credited to me and then argued against how you e never heard an argument like that it’s because that’s not what I said

so in a discussion when we want to avoid the conversation I might create an argument you didn’t say and then argue against how ridiculous it is that’s me creating a straw man to argue with and avoid the point made by you

so when you were arguing that I was saying Jesus death and resurrection wasn’t essential that was the straw man you made .

but anyways seems we’re just we arguing at this point lol so I digress I would just offer the scripture I started with and tell you God bless

My only point ever was to accept Jesus death and resurrection and then claim his word doesn’t apply won’t save anyone because we’re doing this

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so my goal was to discuss that the cross doesn’t change or erase Jesus words he preached and said “ believe me and you will never be condemned “ that’s pretty important stuff

anyways have a great evening and sister your free to believe any and everything you believe a doscussion is often going to have opposing views though . And it doesn’t mean someone’s “ setting you straight “ it just means we have different opinions who ch I think I’ve made mine as well as possible and I have read your view many times “ the finished work of the cross “ leaves a lot to be desired when it’s examined it’s for the point of removing Jesus words that’s just my take though and your free to yours

you have said too much here for me to even respond--I have NEVER written about your so called "FINISHED WORK" doctrine. My clear point was that you were WRONG to say Christ work was finished BEFORE the cross--Of course His work was His message and His miracles, etc not just the cross but it was obviously FINISHED at the cross. Never, did I EVER say the cross erased His words. This is truly infuriating!

Laura798 · Nov 28, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

I completely agree--you have misconstrued what I was saying all because of your pride and refusing to admit your were wrong about Christ's finished work at the cross--finished means He completed His work--NOT that the cross was His only work--go back and read Matthew 24 You wrote hundreds of words which had which had nothing to do with what i actually wrote.

Honestly--I thought you were on the side of 'Christ is reigning now' yet I have had nicer interactions from those on the other side of the debate.

Laura798 · Nov 28, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

ah so Paul surely didn’t preach this ?

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-7‬ ‭

should we reject Paul’s letters unless they seem to say “ I said nothing but the cross ? When obviously he preached the gospel of the kingdom ?

Paul must not have done this then probably ?

“And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and for sure Paul would never say you must believe Jesus words would he since he didn’t say anything but the cross the cross ?

“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭6:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

must be another Paul probably since you quoted a scripture saying he preached none of That stuff just Jesus died and rose now everyone’s saved the end

Paul taught everything Jesus taught eternal judgement based upon our works

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2

I think you are misunderstanding that verse Paul’s doctrine was no different than anyone else’s he preached the same things they all
Did which is everything Jesus taught

Where in God's green earth am I negating Paul's words or teaching? I quoted a simple straightforward verse,

"For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified"--

He summed up in a very short sentence what he thought was most essential--and I'm quoting a verse and not adding or taking away anything to it...unbelievable.

pittsburghjoe · Nov 28, 2021

Fulness of times = 1000 years? Uniting Heaven and Earth with CHRIST?
CHRIST died as a Man so that we can obtain an inheritance today in His Kingdom through His Purchase.

Ephesians 1:9-14
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?

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