A racist God?

[Blik]

Brutal. Absolutely brutal.

Can this be? If I am speaking words from the God of love to say the post is of the flesh? It is not aimed at hurting that I post. If my post is not speaking words of truth from the God of love it is worthless. It only has power if it is from the Lord.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Can this be? If I am speaking words from the God of love to say the post is of the flesh? It is not aimed at hurting that I post. If my post is not speaking words of truth from the God of love it is worthless. It only has power if it is from the Lord.

I highly doubt that you talk to anyone like that face to face, let alone at church.

 

[Blik]

I highly doubt that you talk to anyone like that face to face, let alone at church.

No, I don't think I would, you are right. The question is what God thinks of it? Is it truth we need to know or only something to hurt? It was the result of meditating with my mind completely on God's word. Was it helpful in reflecting God's word, or was it a hurtful post?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

If you ever judged me as you did in your below quote . . .

"so completely without the spirit of the Lord within"

I'd render your opinions of me as utter folly. I wouldn't pay attention to anything you said until you made full amends with interest.

 

[justbyfaith]

There are no pureblooded Jews that exist in the world (barring the possibility of supernatural activity such as immaculate conceptions). Purebloodedness isn't even a Biblical concept. Being a descendant of someone does not mean that you must be a pureblooded descendant. Who fed you this story about purebloodedness?



Revelation 7 talks about 144,000 from the tribes of the children of Israel. 12,000 of those are from the tribe of Judah (Jews). Another passage describes the 144,000 being virgin men that never knew the touch of women. In your view can someone be both a descendant of Judah at the same time as being a descendant of Benjamin?

Also, when Paul mentions that he is from the tribe of Benjamin, does he suddenly no longer count as being from the tribe of Benjamin because he turned to Christ? No. So why then would any of the 144,000 be required to identify as NonChristian Jews in order to qualify to be counted in that number?



No. One can by definition be of Jewish descent at the same time as being of nonJewish descent. They aren't mutually exclusive statuses. Timothy is an example of someone in the NT that very explicitly fits into the category of being both from Jewish and nonJewish ancestry.

We see OT permissibility of proselytes being welcomed into the tribal houses (e.g. Egyptians after the third generation in Deuteronomy). The idea of any Jewish person being "pureblood" makes absolutely no sense and is contrary to established Biblical practices. And we see empirically that Jews and Arabs descend from Canaan. More than that, even Abraham was born from nonJew parents, meaning that every Jew also descends from nonJews/nonIsraelites/nonHebrews.

If humans were asexually reproducing organisms, I might agree with your interpretation. But we aren't asexually reproducing organisms and therefore your premise doesn't make sense.

Those who are of the 12 different tribes in Revelation 7:1-8 are specifically of those tribes and are not mixed with other tribes of Israel and neither are they mixed with any of the Gentile races.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are speaking as a fleshly person so completely without the spirit of the Lord within that you are making decisions based on separations of people that are purely and absolutely worldly. God looks at the heart, not at our parents.

For some reason God says specifically that there will be people who are pureblooded Jews from every tribe of Israel who will be sealed for a special purpose in the last days.

Yes, God looks at the heart, and not at our parents. That is why there is also a multitude that no one can number, dressed in white, who also come out of Great Tribulation.

But God is making a specific point that He will preserve the Jewish people as a race so that there will be 12,000 pureblooded Jews of every tribe in the last days, making a total of 144,000.

I'm not sure why anyone would feel the need to fight against such a doctrine as this. It is certainly not contrary to anything that we find written in the gospel of Jesus Christ as it is related by Paul or any other apostle.

 

[justbyfaith]

Can this be? If I am speaking words from the God of love to say the post is of the flesh? It is not aimed at hurting that I post. If my post is not speaking words of truth from the God of love it is worthless. It only has power if it is from the Lord.

It is absolutely worthless therefore.

 

[Blik]

Can this be? If I am speaking words from the God of love to say the post is of the flesh? It is not aimed at hurting that I post. If my post is not speaking words of truth from the God of love it is worthless. It only has power if it is from the Lord.

My post was not about a person, it was about a former post. Why would you take something said about the correctness or incorrectness according to scripture as something that was "an opinion of you?" That would mean we couldn't discuss scripture. I should think my post should be looked at as of the truth of scripture and commented based on this, not on judging people that we are told is not of scripture.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

My post was not about a person, it was about a former post. Why would you take something said about the correctness or incorrectness according to scripture as something that was "an opinion of you?" That would mean we couldn't discuss scripture. I should think my post should be looked at as of the truth of scripture and commented based on this, not on judging people that we are told is not of scripture.

Oh good grief. So much drama.

 

[Magenta]

My post was not about a person

You are speaking as a fleshly person so completely without the spirit of the Lord within
that you are making decisions based on separations of people that are purely and absolutely worldly.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think it funny and strange that certain groups have purported myths under the guise of the title "myth detector" as if they were debunking myths; when they are actually purporting them.

These are the groups that are for revisionist history; and they will even say how historians have said over the centuries one thing; but that what historians have most certainly believed over the centuries is not true but is in all reality a "myth". Then they purport their own myth that is history as they want it to be revised.

 

[Jocund]

Those who are of the 12 different tribes in Revelation 7:1-8 are specifically of those tribes and are not mixed with other tribes of Israel and neither are they mixed with any of the Gentile races.

Only 12000 of them would be Jewish in that case. Your concept is not a Biblically founded perspective, but I suppose you could argue that God turns 144000 rocks into virgin men of each tribe. If that's what you are saying, it's possible, just very uncompelling. But by your definition of purebloodedness, no one in modèrn society is Jewish by bloodright.

God says specifically that there will be people who are pureblooded Jews from every tribe of Israel who will be sealed for a special purpose in the last days.

I disagree with this. There is no Biblical evidence that your concept of "purebloodedness" was what was meant in Rev 7. It can be your interpretation but it isn't explicitly stated in the Bible by God.

 

[justbyfaith]

Only 12000 of them would be Jewish in that case. Your concept is not a Biblically founded perspective, but I suppose you could argue that God turns 144000 rocks into virgin men of each tribe. If that's what you are saying, it's possible, just very uncompelling. But by your definition of purebloodedness, no one in modèrn society is Jewish by bloodright.



I disagree with this. There is no Biblical evidence that your concept of "purebloodedness" was what was meant in Rev 7. It can be your interpretation but it isn't explicitly stated in the Bible by God.

By Jewish, I mean the descendants of Jacob; I do not limit the Jewish people to the descendants of Judah, fyi.

 

[Blik]

By Jewish, I mean the descendants of Jacob; I do not limit the Jewish people to the descendants of Judah, fyi.

I wish that I could get people to discuss my point of view about all this. I feel that if we read scripture as speaking exclusively to or about certain groups, we are missing the points that God is trying to make. All scripture needs to be read with understanding of who is speaking, and the attributes of the God who is speaking to us. By loosing sight of that, we loose the message.

God spoke to Israel, for example, but we must not lose sight of that God wants all people--the nations, the gentiles, all people--to belong to Him. At one point, God asked Israel to be fleshly circumcised, for example. Some say God did not want the nations to be circumcised, only ones who claim certain parents. I don't think this was ever so. The nations wouldn't listen to God, but that was not the choice that God made.

If we would keep our minds and hearts on the Lord then we wouldn't get way laid by myths and wrong ideas.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Unbelievable

 

[Blik]

Unbelievable

Please give scripture that this declaration is based on.

 

[justbyfaith]

Some say God did not want the nations to be circumcised, only ones who claim certain parents. I don't think this was ever so. The nations wouldn't listen to God, but that was not the choice that God made.

These statements are completely devoid of the Holy Spirit.

One of the main things that were contended by Paul was that Gentiles should not be circumcised.

He circumcised Timothy because his mother was Jewish and the Jews in the area knew that his father was a Greek.

But Titus, who was completely Gentile, he actually resisted to the final hour (in which he won the argument) the people who sought to circumcise him; who were Judaizers.

Paul never taught that Jews should not be circumcised. It was his position that circumcision is a sign of the old covenant between God and Israel. Baptism would be the sign of the New Covenant.

And Paul also taught Gentiles that if they sought to be justified through circumcision, they were estranged from Christ and had fallen from grace.

But Jews who were circumcised as children were not exempted from the possibility of salvation in Christ (1 Corinthians 7:18-19, Galatians 5:6, Galatians 6:15).

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Please give scripture that this declaration is based on.

At this point, I have nothing to offer you relating to any matter.

 

[Blik]

These statements are completely devoid of the Holy Spirit.

One of the main things that were contended by Paul was that Gentiles should not be circumcised.

He circumcised Timothy because his mother was Jewish and the Jews in the area knew that his father was a Greek.

But Titus, who was completely Gentile, he actually resisted to the final hour (in which he won the argument) the people who sought to circumcise him; who were Judaizers.

Paul never taught that Jews should not be circumcised. It was his position that circumcision is a sign of the old covenant between God and Israel. Baptism would be the sign of the New Covenant.

And Paul also taught Gentiles that if they sought to be justified through circumcision, they were estranged from Christ and had fallen from grace.

But Jews who were circumcised as children were not exempted from the possibility of salvation in Christ (1 Corinthians 7:18-19, Galatians 5:6, Galatians 6:15).

Paul did NOT say gentiles should not be circumcised, unless you are only reading scripture in the first covenant understanding where scripture is explained through the earthly practices. We are in the new covenant. We are to read scripture as a spiritual message direct to our hearts. Cutting flesh isn't, and never was, circumcision. God is spirit.

I am asking you to please get your mind off the flesh and understand God as a spiritual God. We are in the new covenant times. God speaks to us directly in our hearts, not by rules written in stone.

I am speaking through what the holy spirit has taught me, using the word. The word is powerful. But it is NOT fleshly, and when you make it into flesh instead of to the heart you distort the word.

 

[justbyfaith]

Paul did NOT say gentiles should not be circumcised, unless you are only reading scripture in the first covenant understanding where scripture is explained through the earthly practices. We are in the new covenant. We are to read scripture as a spiritual message direct to our hearts. Cutting flesh isn't, and never was, circumcision. God is spirit.

I am asking you to please get your mind off the flesh and understand God as a spiritual God. We are in the new covenant times. God speaks to us directly in our hearts, not by rules written in stone.

I am speaking through what the holy spirit has taught me, using the word. The word is powerful. But it is NOT fleshly, and when you make it into flesh instead of to the heart you distort the word.

You need to capitalize "Holy Spirit".

I think that at this point I am in agreement with @2ndTimothyGroup; and will say that I have nothing else to offer you on any matter.