A golden key to understand the book of Revelations

[lamad]

The church are the spiritual seed of Abraham. the heavenly body, "as numerous as the stars" the Jews are the natural seed or earthly body "as many as the sand for number"

The Jews have promises made to them which are not made to the church.

The church will be gathered to heaven , the Jews will be gathered to their enlarged homeland as promised and they shall inherit the earth. The purpose of the gathering for us and for them is to protect them from God's wrath.

Sorry, but the gathering for them, written in Matthew 24, will be after God's wrath is poured out. Did you not read in Daniel 12 that the very purpose of the 70th week is to completely shatter the power of the Jews? Today they trust in their IDF: Israeli Defense Forces. God will cause their IDF to be completely shattered and bring them to the place where ONLY GOD can save them.

 

[Evmur]

This is a true statement, but don't ever confuse this gathering with Paul's gathering: they are two different gatherings for two different people groups and will be separated by over 7 years.

never are they, there are not multiple comings in the clouds of glory with trumps and angels.

 

[lamad]

I don't think so ... it is a little nonsensical that God should give Christ [who is sat next to Him and in His bosom] a revelation. It is my view, that the title of the book comprises the first line of the book.
The revelation to John ....

I think the "Him" in question is our Lord Jesus Christ. Perhaps it is nonsensical but it is what is written.

 

[Evmur]

Sorry, but the gathering for them, written in Matthew 24, will be after God's wrath is poured out. Did you not read in Daniel 12 that the very purpose of the 70th week is to completely shatter the power of the Jews? Today they trust in their IDF: Israeli Defense Forces. God will cause their IDF to be completely shattered and bring them to the place where ONLY GOD can save them.

It's a different subject but God will keep the Jews safe during the tribulation.

 

[lamad]

The real point I am making is that the book being a prophecy concerning the period of time known as the day of the Lord does not really concern the church for the church will have gone. This is why I believe christians have such a difficulty in interpreting it.

Do christians have difficulties interpreting the revelation? ... yes indeedee, you can't find 2 christians to agree upon anything. Some don't even believe it is scripture.

And yet christians forsake the plain and clear prophecies that are given in the open scriptures in favour of interpretations [usually dubious] found in the revelation,

Every single thing the church needs to know concerning the end times right up to and including the Rapture is there in the open and plain scriptures ... after the Rap we don't need anything for we shall be with the Lord.

The church also struggles with chapters in Daniel which concern the Jews after the church is gone and chapters 40 onwards of Ezekiel.

Mebbe [apart from devotional value] the Holy Spirit does not teach it. When the disciples asked Jesus about the setting up of the kingdom in Jerusalem He said that is not for you to know, your job is to bear witness of Me.

It is true that many Christians try and use scriptures pointed to the Jews and attempt to make them apply to the church - so end up in error in their thinking.

 

[Evmur]

I think the "Him" in question is our Lord Jesus Christ. Perhaps it is nonsensical but it is what is written.

not if you take the books title as the first line.

 

[lamad]

It's a different subject but God will keep the Jews safe during the tribulation.

He will certainly keep SOME of them safe. Some of them must survive.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The church is no more mentioned after that as being on earth, they are mentioned as being in heaven having come out of great tribulation.

I hate to be a stickler for detail, but technically the word ekklēsia (commonly translated "church") isn't mentioned after chapter 3 until chapter 22, not chapter 4. How do we know Revelation 4 is a type of the rapture? The word "church" is nowhere to be found.

Neither does the word ekklēsia appear in the books of Mark, Luke, John, 2 Timothy, Titus, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, and Jude. Perhaps those books were meant for someone else as well.

 

[lamad]

not if you take the books title as the first line.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;

 

[Evmur]

That is incorrect. The day of the Lord (which corresponds to the Great Tribulation) is only a portion of the book of Revelation. But Revelation is God's revelation for what will take place from the first coming of Christ until the New Heavens and the New Earth are established. Also "the day of the Lord (LORD)" is being confused with "the Lord's Day" (the first day of the week) by some people who are clueless.

So why do Christians have a hard time interpreting Revelation? Because many who have gone before have muddied the waters, claiming that (1) Revelation is entirely symbolic, (2) we do not need to take the events literally, (3) we do not need to take the events chronologically, and (4) we can play fast and loose with prophecy. Then we have people today claiming that even though Christ (through John) shut the door on any future prophecies. we have prophets walking around today claiming to bring new prophecies to the world.

The day of the Lord and the great tribulation are two things clear different ... tribulation comes from the world.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I don't think so ... it is a little nonsensical that God should give Christ [who is sat next to Him and in His bosom] a revelation. It is my view, that the title of the book comprises the first line of the book.

It may sound nonsensical, but those words were given by divine inspiration to John. And the Greek text makes it perfectly clear that the Father gave the Revelation to the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore all the English translations follow that order. So you can either believe that this is indeed the Word of God, or you can speculate about it.

 

[Evmur]

It may sound nonsensical, but those words were given by divine inspiration to John. And the Greek text makes it perfectly clear that the Father gave the Revelation to the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore all the English translations follow that order. So you can either believe that this is indeed the Word of God, or you can speculate about it.

Not if you take the title as the first line of the book.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The day of the Lord and the great tribulation are two things clear different ... tribulation comes from the world.

The Great Tribulation does not come from the world but is an expression of divine wrath. The seven vials of God's wrath are in fact the Great Tribulation.

 

[lamad]

The Lord Jesus says that it is only false prophets and teachers who will teach a (secret) pre-tribulation advent and rapture, and His teaching is that He will come in glory AFTER the Great Tribulation! Matt 24v23-31, Titus 2v13, Acts 1v9-12 with Zech 14v4.

Please show us scripture and verses where Jesus said "it is only false prophets and teachers who will teach a (secret) pre-tribulation advent and rapture..."
I think you have written MYTH.

 

[Evmur]

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;

The revelation of John, the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him [John] to show unto His servants ... the angel of the Lord is God [Jesus Christ] Himself as is shown in the first chapter.

 

[lamad]

The Great Tribulation does not come from the world but is an expression of divine wrath. The seven vials of God's wrath are in fact the Great Tribulation.

No, neither you nor Evmur got it right. The 7 vials will be poured out, to be sure, while days of GT will be continuing, but God will use them to SHORTEN those days of GT. The days of GT Jesus spoke of will begin right after God's warning not to take the mark, as we read in Rev. 14, and will continue on until the vials are poured out. The DAYS will continue, to fulfill the 1260 days and 42 months that will end the week, but they won't be days of GT. They will be days of darkness and fear, wondering what God will do next.

 

[Evmur]

Please show us scripture and verses where Jesus said "it is only false prophets and teachers who will teach a (secret) pre-tribulation advent and rapture..."
I think you have written MYTH.

there is no secret advent anywhere in scripture "every eye shall see Him ..."

 

[Evmur]

The Great Tribulation does not come from the world but is an expression of divine wrath. The seven vials of God's wrath are in fact the Great Tribulation.

"in the world you will have tribulation"

 

[lamad]

The revelation of John, the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him [John] to show unto His servants ... the angel of the Lord is God [Jesus Christ] Himself as is shown in the first chapter.

Have you seen an original, to know if that title was written by John or was added later?

 

[lamad]

there is no secret advent anywhere in scripture "every eye shall see Him ..."

If you notice, I called the theory of a SECRET rapture a MYTH. The real rapture will be pre-70th week and it will be NOISY! And the entire world will KNOW something happened, for all their children will be missing.