If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?

[pittsburghjoe]

Was this meant for me or David?

I was thinking about this as I was reading it--I think personally bound and restrained mean the same thing--since one verse uses the word restrain and one used bound--same, same.

What do you mean about the Holy Spirit at Pentecost? I might have missed a post--if I did please send # of post, thanks!

The HOLY SPIRIT on Pentecost changed everything. It was the start of GOD'S Presence in the Reborn. The start of the Church ...The Body of CHRIST. The HOLY SPIRIT is what holds satan back. The HOLY SPIRIT wouldn't be here without JESUS.

 

[Laura798]

Christ is not the "first resurrection" found in Revelation 20 but he is why it happens.

Rev 20 speaks of two groups of the dead that resurrect/live again.

The first resurrection is the resurrection of this first group of the dead because they resurrect first. The rest have to wait for their resurrection:

"the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" (Rev 20:5)

This is the last resurrection of those who are dead. One group resurrected and "the rest" or the remaining ones did not resurrect when the others did.

This proves they partake of the second resurrection also known as the last resurrection because no one is still physically dead after they "live again". This proves without a doubt that there are two separate days of resurrections separated by a thousand years and how long that actually is doesn't matter.

The first group resurrects before the thousand years begins and the second/last group resurrects after the end of the thousand years.

Hi EWQ, (this is sort of dejavu),

How are you doing?

So....Jesus is coming only one more time to retrieve the believers and IMMEDIATELY after that He destroys all the unbelievers and the heavens and earth and then we have a new heavens and new earth--He himself said, "My kingdom is not of this world."--He came "once to die and then the judgment."

Again, 1000 is always symbolic in scripture--no exceptions. It means either a large number or fullness or completeness.

Matthew 24:29-30
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
Hebrews 9:28
So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
Revelation 1:7
Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. ...

Matthew 24:29
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.


PS I would not have ever joined this chat if I would've have known it was so addictive--I call it Chat Crack....I may end up having to go off of it cold turkey....

 

[ewq1938]

how can satan be bound after The Return if JESUS is going to destroy him?

2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

That's a reference to the man of sin whom Paul also called "that Wicked". It's not satan.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

That's a reference to the man of sin whom Paul also called "that Wicked". It's not satan.

What is "the brightness of his coming:"?

 

[ewq1938]

Hi EWQ, (this is sort of dejavu),

How are you doing?

Good, you?

So....Jesus is coming only one more time to retrieve the believers and IMMEDIATELY after that He destroys all the unbelievers and the heavens and earth and then we have a new heavens and new earth

Sorry but scripture does not support that. In Rev 19 he says in a future tense verb that nations will be ruled over in the future after Armageddon. Also, the NHNE does not happen until REV 21, which is after GWTJ. The NHNE does not occur at the second coming.

Again, 1000 is always symbolic in scripture--no exceptions.

This isn't true either. I posted a lengthy post about the Greek words that mean a thousand and there is one that means exactly a thousand, no more or less. That word is used in Rev 20.

PS I would not have ever joined this chat if I would've have known it was so addictive--I call it Chat Crack....I may end up having to go off of it cold turkey....

I think it's too late for that.

 

[Laura798]

The HOLY SPIRIT on Pentecost changed everything. It was the start of GOD'S Presence in the Reborn. The start of the Church ...The Body of CHRIST. The HOLY SPIRIT is what holds satan back. The HOLY SPIRIT wouldn't be here without JESUS.

Hmm? I'll have to think on that. Yes Jesus said He would send the Holy Spirit-In the OT we see the Holy Spirit would come upon certain people, but now He lives in every believer. I still believe it was at the point of Christ's substitutionary death that Satan was bound, not at Pentecost. My belief is God is restraining Satan, not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has a different role than God the Father and God the son. His role is to indwell the believer--to equips them to do the work God has called them to do, to encourage, to comfort, to help us resist temptation, to discern what is from God from what isn't, and to resist temptation. In any case, I will need to study this idea more, as I am just now considering the matter since you brought it up.

 

[Laura798]

Good, you?



Sorry but scripture does not support that. In Rev 19 he says in a future tense verb that nations will be ruled over in the future after Armageddon. Also, the NHNE does not happen until REV 21, which is after GWTJ. The NHNE does not occur at the second coming.






This isn't true either. I posted a lengthy post about the Greek words that mean a thousand and there is one that means exactly a thousand, no more or less. That word is used in Rev 20.





I think it's too late for that.

Okay--if cold turkey doesn't work, please pray I will use my time wisely--and limit my use on CC--thanks!

Well, I always say to test Scripture against Scripture--and scripture never contradicts itself. Also I say never isolate verses--that can lead to wrong theology. We need to look at the whole of scripture and put the puzzle pieces together--beginning with the literal verses that say "Christ came once to die and then the judgment" --He comes only 2 times--and immediately after He comes... KABOOM!
for the unbeliever and YIPEE! For the believer.

Okay--I am signing off--until my 'allotted' time... which i haven't decided on yet...

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Hmm? I'll have to think on that. Yes Jesus said He would send the Holy Spirit-In the OT we see the Holy Spirit would come upon certain people, but now He lives in every believer. I still believe it was at the point of Christ's substitutionary death that Satan was bound, not at Pentecost. My belief is God is restraining Satan, not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has a different role than God the Father and God the son. His role is to indwell the believer--to equips them to do the work God has called them to do, to encourage, to comfort, to help us resist temptation, to discern what is from God from what isn't, and to resist temptation. In any case, I will need to study this idea more, as I am just now considering the matter since you brought it up.

You just listed Scripture that has Something stepping back from restraining the son of perdition. Actually, now that i think about it, it might more evidence that JESUS is Reigning now. The HOLY SPIRIT points to JESUS first before The Father ...right? i could be wrong on that. The HOLY SPIRIT is the Seven Spirits, the Seven Eyes, GOD'S Omnipresence.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Paul said that we have a down-payment on our salvation, the Holy Spirit!

While in this life the Kingdom lives within us, that being Christ through the Holy Spirit.

The physical kingdom is yet to come when our salvation is complete at the resurrection!

2 Thessalonians 2 forces everyone to choose between CHRIST came and is Reigning or that satan is destroyed before a 1000 years can happen.

2Th 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2Th 2:2
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2Th 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2Th 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2Th 2:5
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2Th 2:6
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2Th 2:7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2Th 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2Th 2:9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2Th 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


//Why does It start talking about a delusion after the "end of the world"?

 

[DavidTree]

2 Thessalonians 2 forces everyone to choose between CHRIST came and is Reigning or that satan is destroyed before a 1000 years can happen.

2Th 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2Th 2:2
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2Th 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2Th 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2Th 2:5
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2Th 2:6
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2Th 2:7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2Th 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2Th 2:9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2Th 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


//Why does It start talking about a delusion after the "end of the world"?

Because 2 Thes 2:11 is not after the "end of the world"

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Because 2 Thes 2:11 is not after the "end of the world"

That's a problem for you now because you need The Coming of JESUS to be His Return. You need 2 Thes 2 to be about the end and that is what your view says it is.

 

[ewq1938]

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations after Christ has returned not before it. Compare to this:

Mat_10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mat_24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations after Christ has returned not before it. Compare to this:

Mat_10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mat_24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.

Overcome until the end ...is Overcoming until the end of your own personal life.

You are not facing what is posted in #509.

 

[ewq1938]

Overcome until the end ...is Overcoming until the end of your own personal life.

Or it's enduring to the end of this age. Either way, there is a rule over the nations with a rod of iron after "the end". This disproves Amill's claim that no mortals survive the second coming.

 

[ewq1938]

You are not facing what is posted in #509.

I addressed your error already. The man of sin is not satan. It's the Antichrist.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Pilgrimshope already explained HOW JESUS is Reigning with a rod of iron.

So you want the antichrist to be destroyed with The Return and then satan to be bound right after? That's not how this works.

 

[ewq1938]

Pilgrimshope already explained HOW JESUS is Reigning with a rod of iron.

So you want the antichrist to be destroyed with The Return and then satan to be bound right after? That's not how this works.

It is how it works and it is what the bible says. You are the one who is confusing the man of sin with satan. Guess who is wrong here?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Explain why people will be in a delusion in the Millennium Reign.


2Th 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

 

[pittsburghjoe]

In the Olivet Discourse, they asked JESUS when His Coming would be ...not His Return.


2Th 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2Th 2:2
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

 

[ewq1938]

Explain why people will be in a delusion in the Millennium Reign.

They won't be.