If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?
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Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations after Christ has returned not before it.
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.
No surprise that this matches what is found in the second coming passage in Revelation 19:
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Again we find the nations being ruled (future tense verb) by a rod of iron AFTER the second coming exactly as Premill teaches. If everyone is killed, who is going to be ruled over by the rod of iron in both passages? Obviously Amil's "global slaughter" theology is false.
There are things Jesus has to accomplish when he returns:
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
That is the rule of the rod of iron with his saints and it lasts a thousand years and that thousand years does not begin until he returns according to Rev 20 and Rev 2.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
The nations will come and worship before Christ.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
Only by the time of the end of the thousand year rod of iron rule over the nations does Christ deliver up the kingdom to his Father. The Father will destroy Satan's army with fire, throw Satan and the unsaved into the LOF then the saved will enter into the NHNE and the eternal kingdom.
That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations after Christ has returned not before it.
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.
No surprise that this matches what is found in the second coming passage in Revelation 19:
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Again we find the nations being ruled (future tense verb) by a rod of iron AFTER the second coming exactly as Premill teaches. If everyone is killed, who is going to be ruled over by the rod of iron in both passages? Obviously Amil's "global slaughter" theology is false.
There are things Jesus has to accomplish when he returns:
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
That is the rule of the rod of iron with his saints and it lasts a thousand years and that thousand years does not begin until he returns according to Rev 20 and Rev 2.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
The nations will come and worship before Christ.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
Only by the time of the end of the thousand year rod of iron rule over the nations does Christ deliver up the kingdom to his Father. The Father will destroy Satan's army with fire, throw Satan and the unsaved into the LOF then the saved will enter into the NHNE and the eternal kingdom.
The Millennium: An Earthly rule by Christ and his saints
Christ will exercise his Kingly authority on Earth when the 7th trump sounds:
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
The rod of iron reign only begins after Christ has come:
Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
The saints reign will be on the Earth not from heaven:
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the EARTH.
second coming:
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
After the second coming:
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
All these prove a literal kingdom with Christ and his saints physically here on the Earth literally ruling over human beings of various nations.
Christ will exercise his Kingly authority on Earth when the 7th trump sounds:
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
The rod of iron reign only begins after Christ has come:
Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
The saints reign will be on the Earth not from heaven:
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the EARTH.
second coming:
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
After the second coming:
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
All these prove a literal kingdom with Christ and his saints physically here on the Earth literally ruling over human beings of various nations.
Satan is king over the fallen angels - what happens to satan - happens to all of the fallen angels.
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth.
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,
These scriptures make absolutely clear that satan is the ruler over the fallen angels - they do his bidding.
Pay attention to the Dragons tail - this again clearly denotes satan as the Head over his fallen angels.
wishful thinking, satan is just a fallen angel like the rest of them. a bound satan does not mean every fallen angel is bound.
i didn't write this, but wow.
1. Did God break His promise? In Psalm 2, YHWH promised that He would establish His kingdom regardless of man's attempts to thwart His purpose. Premillennialism teaches that the 'Jewish' rejection of Jesus as an earthly king caused God not to be able to establish the kingdom in the first century. Hence, God's promise failed. The next conclusion which follows is this: if the rejection of Jesus in the first century caused God to be unable to fulfill His promise, how can we be sure that a similar rejection at a later time would not have the same effect? This destroys confidence in the word of God.
2. Is Jesus is a failure. John 18:37 plainly states that Jesus came to this earth for the purpose of becoming a king. If He did not accomplish that which He set out to do, as premillennialists assert, He failed in His mission.
3. Dethroning Christ. Premillennialism dethrones Christ by denying that He is presently reigning as king over His kingdom. Hence, if premillennialism is true,' we cannot confess that Jesus is Lord (Acts 2:36) or that He is King of kings and Lord of lords (1 Tim. 6:15). We could only state a conviction that He will become these things at some future date. Presently,' however, Jesus does not have "all authority" if premillennialism is true despite the clear affirmations to the contrary (Matt. 28:18; Eph. 1:20-23).
4. So the Apostles have no authority. The apostles were given "binding and loosing" authority in the kingdom (Matt. 16:18; 18:18). If the kingdom has not come, they have no binding and loosing authority. The words of the apostles would not then be the authoritative word of God for today. The New Testament looses its authority if premillennialism is true.
5. There is no need for a new birth. The new birth was the condition for one to have admission into the kingdom of heaven (Jn. 3:3, 5). If that kingdom has not come, there is no need for a man to be born again. Why be born again if there is no kingdom in which to enter?
1. Did God break His promise? In Psalm 2, YHWH promised that He would establish His kingdom regardless of man's attempts to thwart His purpose. Premillennialism teaches that the 'Jewish' rejection of Jesus as an earthly king caused God not to be able to establish the kingdom in the first century. Hence, God's promise failed. The next conclusion which follows is this: if the rejection of Jesus in the first century caused God to be unable to fulfill His promise, how can we be sure that a similar rejection at a later time would not have the same effect? This destroys confidence in the word of God.
2. Is Jesus is a failure. John 18:37 plainly states that Jesus came to this earth for the purpose of becoming a king. If He did not accomplish that which He set out to do, as premillennialists assert, He failed in His mission.
3. Dethroning Christ. Premillennialism dethrones Christ by denying that He is presently reigning as king over His kingdom. Hence, if premillennialism is true,' we cannot confess that Jesus is Lord (Acts 2:36) or that He is King of kings and Lord of lords (1 Tim. 6:15). We could only state a conviction that He will become these things at some future date. Presently,' however, Jesus does not have "all authority" if premillennialism is true despite the clear affirmations to the contrary (Matt. 28:18; Eph. 1:20-23).
4. So the Apostles have no authority. The apostles were given "binding and loosing" authority in the kingdom (Matt. 16:18; 18:18). If the kingdom has not come, they have no binding and loosing authority. The words of the apostles would not then be the authoritative word of God for today. The New Testament looses its authority if premillennialism is true.
5. There is no need for a new birth. The new birth was the condition for one to have admission into the kingdom of heaven (Jn. 3:3, 5). If that kingdom has not come, there is no need for a man to be born again. Why be born again if there is no kingdom in which to enter?
How do Premillennialist not see that they are demanding the same physical Kingdom that the Jews did ...but only for a magical 1000 year period?
Stay with the Scripture Brother - Satan was the Serpent in the Garden and is the Ruler of the fallen angels
Who went before God to accuse Job - Satan, not any of the fallen angels but Satan = Job chapters 1 & 2
Who is the Accuser of the Brethren - Satan = Revelation 12:10
Who went against Israel = Satan = Zechariah 3:1-2
Satan was the Chief Covering Cherub, he was perfect when he was created until iniquity was found in him.
Only Satan has the title of "the god of this world" - 2 Corinthians 4:4
You have some things mixed up here but i do not have time - will another day .
PEACE , BLESSING and Happy Thanksgiving to You
Why the Millennial Reign of Christ is not a literal reign and why 1000 years is symbolic
1. First it's vital to see that Revelation is a book filled with symbolism and imagery--"signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"
"The word “signified” is a translation of the Greek word semaino, meaning “to show by symbolic signs”."
2. In every single case in scripture, the number 1000 is symbolic -never literal. By this we know it is highly unlikely in a symbolic book such as Revelation that it should be taken literally.
3. Jesus said himself, "My kingdom is not of this world."
4. It denies Christ is ruling now--and to deny this is to deny who Christ is and what he came to do. 'The king of kings and lord of lords. He is NOW at the present time sitting at the right hand of the father. When He returns He turns His reign over to the Father which has to mean He is reigning now. "Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power."--1st Corinthians 15:24
5. At the cross He said 'It is finished'--He has no more work to do on this earth--he defeated sin and death at the cross.
6. In literal verses of scripture it says Christ's comes a second time to gather His elect and judge the earth--then IMMEDIATELY after this the current heaven and earth are destroyed, along with the unbeliever and the wicked.
7. A new heaven and earth are created where ONLY 'righteousness dwells.
and there is so much more...
1. First it's vital to see that Revelation is a book filled with symbolism and imagery--"signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"
"The word “signified” is a translation of the Greek word semaino, meaning “to show by symbolic signs”."
2. In every single case in scripture, the number 1000 is symbolic -never literal. By this we know it is highly unlikely in a symbolic book such as Revelation that it should be taken literally.
3. Jesus said himself, "My kingdom is not of this world."
4. It denies Christ is ruling now--and to deny this is to deny who Christ is and what he came to do. 'The king of kings and lord of lords. He is NOW at the present time sitting at the right hand of the father. When He returns He turns His reign over to the Father which has to mean He is reigning now. "Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power."--1st Corinthians 15:24
5. At the cross He said 'It is finished'--He has no more work to do on this earth--he defeated sin and death at the cross.
6. In literal verses of scripture it says Christ's comes a second time to gather His elect and judge the earth--then IMMEDIATELY after this the current heaven and earth are destroyed, along with the unbeliever and the wicked.
7. A new heaven and earth are created where ONLY 'righteousness dwells.
and there is so much more...
Both Satan and the Angels roam the earth--I'm frankly confused about Tartarus (other bible verses translate it as hell) as they will be judged at the end of the age along with all mankind. The binding happened to all of them at the cross when Christ defeated Satan and all the other 'principalities and powers of the air'. The following article is helpful in understanding this 'binding' since we know Satan and is Cohorts are still 'princes of this world' and are still influencing and harming mankind.
(I don't always agree with some of the theology of some of these orgs, btw--including Ligonier--however this article i believe is doctrinely sound)
The Binding of Satan
...Jesus explained that when He cast out demons by the Spirit of God (Matt. 12:28–29), it meant that the kingdom of God had come. In His work, He was binding the strong man (that is, the devil), who formerly had been keeping people in the dark and painful prison of unbelief, sin, and certain judgment.
After the Lord's crucifixion and resurrection, and immediately before His ascension back to the Father, He commissioned the church to "go . . . and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (28:19). They would be able to do this because of Christ's victory over Satan, who had long blinded the nations, for Jesus said, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me' (v. 18). Satan's illegitimate power over the nations has been wrested from him, and placed into the hands of the legitimate Lord and Savior of the world. Now the Christian church can do its work; it can engage in successful mission all over the world, bringing the good news of freedom from captivity to those who had long been in chains because of sin and unbelief.
Colossians 2:14–15 makes it clear what happened to the powers of evil through Christ's ministry, especially what He accomplished on the cross: "[He] cancel[ed] the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him." This indicates that wicked powers were defeated in principle at the cross of Christ. When Jesus purged all of our sins on Calvary, something happened to Satan. The evil one lost his authority to keep people back from God. He was bound by what Jesus did...
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/binding-satan
How long does the millennium last?
There can be no doubt that it began with the completed work of Christ on earth. Revelation 20 follows immediately upon Revelation 19, which celebrates the triumph of the One who is "King of kings and Lord of lords" (v. 16), whose robe was dipped in blood (v. 13), and who now rules the nations with a rod of iron (v. 15). But when does it end? Revelation 20 presents it as continuing until the end of the age, when after a brief uprising by Satan, the final judgment takes place (20:7–11). That means that the evil one is bound from deceiving the nations until just before the conclusion of salvation history.
Why, then, does Revelation use the expression a thousand years? In terms of biblical numbers, ten represents fullness, and a thousand is ten times ten times ten, hence fullness times fullness times fullness. It seems to equal a vast number of years without being a precise chronology of human history. Nowhere else does Scripture limit the binding of Satan and the success of the church's mission to a specific period of time before the end of the age. Moreover, there are other places in Scripture where the word thousand is used without being a literal number. In Psalm 50 this same number is employed in a different context, where it says that God owns "the cattle on a thousand hills" (v. 10). This could not mean that the only thing God owns in His creation is one thousand hills, for "the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof" (24:1). It is an expression for fullness. It is the same in Psalm 68:17, where the chariots of God are said to be "twice ten thousand." It is highly unlikely that God has only twenty thousand active angels at his behest, for Christ on the cross could have called down twelve legions of angels (Matt. 26:53), which is far more than twenty thousand. The message in Psalms 50 and 68 is one of fullness, and it is the same in Revelation 20. One day, the fullness of the elect will be brought into the church, and then the end will come. It is not a matter of literally one thousand years, but of God's secret timing as to the gathering of His people into union with Christ, however long that may take from our human perspective.
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/binding-satan
There can be no doubt that it began with the completed work of Christ on earth. Revelation 20 follows immediately upon Revelation 19, which celebrates the triumph of the One who is "King of kings and Lord of lords" (v. 16), whose robe was dipped in blood (v. 13), and who now rules the nations with a rod of iron (v. 15). But when does it end? Revelation 20 presents it as continuing until the end of the age, when after a brief uprising by Satan, the final judgment takes place (20:7–11). That means that the evil one is bound from deceiving the nations until just before the conclusion of salvation history.
Why, then, does Revelation use the expression a thousand years? In terms of biblical numbers, ten represents fullness, and a thousand is ten times ten times ten, hence fullness times fullness times fullness. It seems to equal a vast number of years without being a precise chronology of human history. Nowhere else does Scripture limit the binding of Satan and the success of the church's mission to a specific period of time before the end of the age. Moreover, there are other places in Scripture where the word thousand is used without being a literal number. In Psalm 50 this same number is employed in a different context, where it says that God owns "the cattle on a thousand hills" (v. 10). This could not mean that the only thing God owns in His creation is one thousand hills, for "the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof" (24:1). It is an expression for fullness. It is the same in Psalm 68:17, where the chariots of God are said to be "twice ten thousand." It is highly unlikely that God has only twenty thousand active angels at his behest, for Christ on the cross could have called down twelve legions of angels (Matt. 26:53), which is far more than twenty thousand. The message in Psalms 50 and 68 is one of fullness, and it is the same in Revelation 20. One day, the fullness of the elect will be brought into the church, and then the end will come. It is not a matter of literally one thousand years, but of God's secret timing as to the gathering of His people into union with Christ, however long that may take from our human perspective.
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/binding-satan
The body of Christ is never referred to as the elect. The nation of Israel is God's elect nation. He elected them for the seed. Elect has to do with service, not salvation.
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
i see now that the Holy Spirit is moving me to write a book that exposes the spirit of error which is rampant in christianity.
Lie #1 - "The body of Christ is never referred to as the elect."
Lie #2 - Elect has to do with service, not salvation.
Half truth (OT) #1 - "The nation of Israel is God's elect nation."
Half truth(OT) #2 - "He elected them for the seed."
"No lie is of the Truth" - 1 John
you know a contemporary verse for that ?
“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
Luke 6:36-38 KJV
one wants to be perfect in being merciful to others who wrong and offend you because that’s the judgement we will receive whatever judgement we give out whether perfect mercy of flawed judgement
“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”
Matthew 5:44-48 KJV
Be perfectly merciful forgive , don’t judge others , don’t condemn others , be perfect in mercy and be confident in receiving mercy
“Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.”
Matthew 5:7 KJV
be perfect in forgiving others and be confident in being forgiven
“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
he’s teaching about being perfect in what he’s teaching about which in this case is mercy towards others be perfect therefore in mercy like God is
Hi Pittsburgh,
I agree--some of Revelation is in the past, and there is more yet to be fulfilled.
I heard a good analogy about prophecy, which I can't recall exactly, but it compared prophecy to mountain ranges--at a certain distance it may look like only one mountain range, but as you get closer you begin to see it is two, oh no it's three...and so forth.
In the inquisition alone the numbers are as high as 300,000. A great number of Anabaptists were murdered by order of the papacy. The total number of Christians martyred is upwards of 70 million.
http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/827989/15116787/1321289366180/50+million+protestants+killed.pdf?token=6rP1VZSoLKfFGBpLeB5t910305M=
it’s a spiritual kingdom
“But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.”
Matthew 12:28 KJV
Christ is eeeted on his throne already it’s why he was taken up to heaven
“Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
Acts 2:30, 32-33 KJV
David’s throne of the kingdom is eternal Gods right hand in heaven that’s where Christ is reigning from now. There’s a kingdom in heaven where Christ is seated in the throne. The kingdom follows the king he brought it to earth and we see his word commanding evil spirits , raising the dead , forgiving sins , healing the blind and lame
if the kingdom wasn’t here throne things could t have happened Jesus is seated in the kingdom now earths chaos is because satan was cast out of heaven into earth because Christ has been seated in heaven mt sion and Gods city is In heaven
“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,”
Hebrews 12:22-23 KJV
So when we see scriptire like this
“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.”
Revelation 14:1 KJV
it’s showing you Jesus in heaven along with The faithful of Israel’s children.
My sion is in heaven it’s where the kingdom is now when we die who believe we are going to enter into that kingdom d in the end that heavenly kingdom will come to the new earth
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.”
Revelation 21:1-
the kingdom was announced on earth so people can enter it and it is in full swing in heaven as satans war is in full swing on earth
Hi Pilgrim,
It looks like you are responding to both Charlie and I but, we are on opposite side of the discussion--I think its why it's helpful to read a few of a person's post before responding. I am in agreement with you--If you see my other post--the most recent with enumerated points-where I state that Christ is ruling and reigning now--sitting at the right hand of the father and in every believer. His work on this present earth was finished at the cross and there is no necessity (or scriptural support) for Him to come again to earth to rule a literal 1000 years. He comes a second time to gather the elect, to judge the world, then immediately all is destroyed --the unbeliever, the current heavens and earth and then God creates a new heavens and new earth where only 'righteousness dwells'.
no sorry I was reading the conversation between you and he and was just offering a thought to Charlie . You being replied to there was incidental it only appeared to re because I had been reading the conversation between the two of you and others and had just a few thoughts and some scripture to offer to Charlie to sort of support what you were saying and offer a few scriptures