How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
- Thread starter Aaron56
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Yes, one in Matt. 24:29-31 and the other in Matt. 24:36-51.
NO.....If a Preacher writes a letter today t his flock is that the WORD OF GOD? Maybe, or maybe not, it could be inspired by God, but at the same time if a pastor is having a hard time getting his flock to understand something he might embellish it to get them to see the picture. Do you understand the difference in time via a blinking of an eyelash? It is considered a moment, not even a second, so WHY did Paul feel the need to say the Dead are "RAISED FIRST" a Blinking of an eye BEFORE those of us on earth who are alive at his coming?
Go back and reread 1 Thessalonians and 2b Thessalonians and even 1 and 2 Corinthians, you had many people doubting because their loved ones had died, so Paul was trying to reassure them their loved ones would not be left in the grave, and would be taken to heaven, thus he sys they are RESURRECTED FIRST, a Blink of an eye before those of us who are alive. NOW REMEMBER another Paul moto, I will be ALL THINGS unto ALL PEOPLE that I might win souls. So, Paul uses himself as a soul winner first and foremost, not a Thus Saith the Lord Prophet. I think we are all Resurrected at the exact same time, Paul tryi g to reassure the Thessalonians that their dead loved ones will be taken to heaven bothers me not. Paul is also wrong about the Anti-Christ entering the temple, Jesus says it's a Graven Image that STANDS where it OUGHT NIT STAND !! (Matt. 24:15-17) In Rev. 13 John sats the False Prophet places THE IMAGE of the Beast in the Temple. In Dan., 12:11-12 Jesus (Man in Linen) says its the 1290 False Prophet that stops Jesus Worship (takes away THE Sacrifice which is Jesus, not some stupid/profane Meat Sacrifice) and places the AoD.
The RCC placed the Letters of Paul in the bible. They re letters to his flock, they re ot THUS SAITH THE LORD. No matter how much yu say they are, they re not THUS SAITH THE LORD biblical scriptures, tey are letters unto his flock.
We can use all three, but there is no use, using one or the other is always the best way, so doing all three hen taking notes off all three is a better way to go else you win up conflating things, from my experience. I will use Matt 24
You get verse 13 correct, that is indeed referring to the end of men's/disciples lives, or running the full marathon.
Now, here is 2 or 3 reasons why I think you get off on the wrong foot. 1.) THE END is not fully comprehended by you. 2.) You don't quite grasp how clever Jesus is with his THREE MENTIONS of false christs/false prophets and understand that Jesus, in ALL THREE are pointing to THREE SPECIFIC TIME PERIODS. 3.) Zechariah shows Israel REPENTING via 1/3 of the Nation coming unto Jesus, in reality, you know that did not happen in AD 70. (It's one of those, YEA, but I got to make it fit moments for you......SMILE, I used to be the same way)
OK, let's discuss why THE END is so important and what it means here. Jesus is speaking about the coming 70th WEEK END where Israel goes through so many troubles that they turn unto Jesus Christ during this 70th week and repent, just like Zechariah 13:8-9 says AND just like Malachi 4:5-6 says.
So, Jesus starts off answering their question about WHEN WLL THESE THINGS BE? (Temples Destruction) And that comes in verses 4-6, he tells them not to let anyone DECEIVE THEM, there will be many that come saying I am Christ or the Messiah who will deceive many, don't believe it, you will hear wars and rumors of wars (from afar in 70 AD) but don't be troubled, the..........END IS NOT YET (70 AD is not the END, that is by and by or LATER ON)
So, Jesus did not want the disciples rushing back unto Jerusalem thinking THE END (70th-week redemption and Jerusalem/Israel being redeemed by Jesus and Jesus reigning there for 1000 years) had come, thus he, LATER ON, tells them SPECIFICALLY what brings THE END where they can not get it wrong, in verse 14. But here Jesus tells them that fake christs will deceive many. John 5:43 is fulfilled here, not during the END TIMES. The Pharisees and Jewish leaders knew Rome was the Fourth Beast, thus they put forth Messianic figures from 66 AD - 70 AD hoping that one would be that hoped-for "Political Savior" they saw the Messiah as. Thus Jesus not only warns them not to come back unto Jerusalem at this time, even though they would hear of wars and rumors of wars and fake christs, he later on in verse 14 explains unto them that the Gospel must be preached unto ALL THE WORLD, and only then would THE END come (70th week). Thus his Disciples could not be TRICKED by Satan, because they knew India and China had to have heard the Gospel before THE END (70th week) could come. Thus Jesus here is telling his disciples what their future would bring AND what brings the 70th-week end times.)
That is why I say verses 4-6 are SPECIFICALLY about 70 AD.
In verses 7-14 we are shown the Church Age, and Jesus was explaining this unto his Disciples, thus the mention of false prophets in verse 11 is specifically about false teachers, notice it's not false christs here as in verse 5, it is false prophets. So, Jesus starts laying down all the signs that lead up to the Second Coming in Matt. 24 29-:31 since this is about the Jews' END TIME fate. But he's also speaking of the Church Age period because Jews are also in the Church, of course, the Disciples were all Jews.
So, Nations will war against Nations, Ethos against Ethos (race against race), there will be earthquakes, famines, and plagues (think of the Black Plague, think of COVID 19 etc.) and Jesus said this is the beginning of Sorrows or a Birthpang, in other words, Jesus painted the Churh Age as BIRTHING the 70th-week end that was yet to come. He then tried to ready the Disciples for their coming fate (Death) and he says hey, you will be hated for my name's sake, they will send out false lying prophets and they will find ways and reasons to eventual put you to death (this is why one disciple, elsewhere, asked about John who was no doubt told he would never be put to death and Jesus basically told him to let him worry about that). Jesus tells them that sin and iniquity will abound and many people's love would wax cold. He tells them that, AND THEN RIGHT AWAY says, but only he who ENDURES UNTO THE END will be SAVED !! Thus he is warning them not to punk out as we would say it, keep the faith to the very end even when they threaten you with death. Then in verse 14 Jesus finally tells them what brings THE END (70th week)
When the Gospel is preached unto the WHOLE WORLD then and then only will the END COME (70th week).
Then Jesus goes straight into the 70th weeK with verse 15 and the AoD. The Gospel is still being preached, when the Church is Raptured, the 70th week will come, but not until after the Rapture.
In verses 15-21 Jesus is speaking about the 70th week Jesus fleeing after they REPENT and in verse 24 we see the THIRD MENTION of false ptophets/chists in that THE False Prophet and THE Ant-Christ who work miracles are mentioned at this time. So, there is a rhyme and reason to everything in Matt. 24, people for the most part just overlook it.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I have just sent an email to deactivate my account. Y’all won’t have to deal with me anymore. And I do
Not have to watch people be bullied by others anymore
God bless you
Some say there is one second coming.Please tell me you said this strictly to be funny...
Otherwise ------ you are kidding, right?
I am taking that logic into rev 14 vs rev 19.
My post was an attempt to make 2 comings into one.
You are correct, trying to do that is error and comical.
One second coming is not in the bible.....and impossible
So you say the bible is not inspired by the Holy Spirit.
No God breathed anything in the bible...correct?
No dont do that.
We are all doing the same thing
Putting in our opinions.
Just take a break.
Paul does not say a blink in the eye before us - read it again - he is talkinging about the transition from the dead body into the Glorified one.
You said: The RCC placed the Letters of Paul in the bible. They re letters to his flock, they re ot THUS SAITH THE LORD. No matter how much yu say they are, they re not THUS SAITH THE LORD biblical scriptures, tey are letters unto his flock.
FALSE - REPENT - you have nothing to say over the word of God - you are not a Apostle, never were, never will be.
The Flock belongs to CHRIST - the Letters were written by the Holy Spirit thru Chosen Vessels = CHRIST's Apostles.
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
I am sad to see you go. Never mind about bullies. Everyone ALWAYS reaps what they sow.
I disagree: when Jesus mentioned "the end" He was speaking of His coming to Armageddon. I agree with you in part: He started at the beginning of the church age, so when He said, "the end is not yet, He was still speaking of church age events: wars, rumors of wars, earthquakes, pestilences (covid) etc—all church age events. Even the midpoint abomination was not the end. That was before the worse part: the days of GT. I can't find much, if ANYTHING here pertaining to the church. Jesus was talking to Jewish men about the end of THEIR AGE. The truth is, the church will be returning WITH Him, as will the Old Testament saints, the beheaded, the Two Witnesses—heaven will be emptied—most of the angels will also return: all as the "armies" of heaven. Who knows? Perhaps many of the saints will be given swords to assist in Armageddon and the wrap up.
Did you tear them out of your bible?
There are parts of our bible that was not inspired: Job's three friends answers, for example. We find later on in Job they were all wrong! But God inspired someone to include them. Peter, when he tried to correct Jesus for another example. Did you not read that WE - the church - will be JUDGED by Paul's gospel? You better rethink your position on Paul! God will be asking you about it. Do you not understand that if God had not sent Paul with His gospel, to the gentiles, you and I would still be heathens? We all owe Paul a great price. His written epistles are the gospel for the gentiles.
Dude, Christians are tough, the way I have learned all I have over 35 plus years is by debate, Peter and Paul had a very harsh debate. I don't just get angry when someone tries to corner me, I try to TEACH THEM God's truths, I use that chance to layout His truths in layers that can not be denied.
Suck it up, brother.
No, you said that, I said Pauls letters were not "THUS SAITH THE LORD" as were the Prophets of Old which could NEVER BE WRONG. A holy Spirot led sermon by a Holy Spirit led preacher can have some UNGODLY FACTS in there because people pass down things they have heard in their life which are just not factual, but they think it is factual, that doesn't mean he is not of God or the sermon was not of God.
So, any preacher that preaches that the 144,000 are 144,000 SUPER PREACHERS are just factually wrong. I would say 95 percent say this, but they are wrong, that doesn't mean that they are WRONG HEADED NOT of God Preachers, it simply means they are WRONG on the 144,000. Nowhere in the bible, NOT ANYWHERE does it say these are 144,000 Super Preachers. After one understands that is a fallacy, only then can they understand these 144,000 are the Jewish people who repents, they are 3-5 million people (Zechariah 13:8-9) and we can figure that out via all the clues and via the timing of where they are seen at in the book of Revelation, but only when we understand the Seals are indeed NOT JUDGMENTS can we understand its a linear picture of the Jews fleeing Judea just BEFORE the Judgments fall in Rev. 8.
If God tells Paul/Peter etc. to go out and convert the masses, they are not required to have every single word as TRUTHS which can not be wrong, the Prophets of old had to have God's truths, and not one word could be overexaggerated. Meanwhile, the Disciples were given a job of winning souls, which meant finesse was used in some cases, ohhh, you guys are worried about loved ones being let in the grave, HEY they will be raised FIRST a blink of an eye BEFORE those who are alive will be raised. I didn't think God is going to raise the dead up a split second before those of us who are alive, I think that was Paul ( In a LETTER) finessing this answer to reassure these people that their loved ones would be raised and taken to heave, and thus not left behind. How could Paul do this in his mind? EUREKA, just tell them the Dead are raised just before the living gets taken. Paul's job was to build the Gentiles FAITH, thus he needed them to continue in the Faith, to have hope. The truth is, he was telling them THE TRUTH, the Dead in Christ will indeed be RAISED and those who are alive will be TAKEN at the exact same time. The way he finessed them into keeping the faith was his job as a Pastor. Paul told them the truth and gave them HOPE for their dead loved ones. JOB WELL DONE. But don't hold a Pastor finessing a flock to the same standard as an Old Testament Prophet, that sir makes no sense tbh.
The Apostle Paul's letters are also for the Jew - he included them as well - and Paul sternly rebuked Peter for separating himself from the Gentile Blood Washed Sanctified Elect of God.
There is only One Gospel for the Jew and the Gentile - never think that 'Paul's Gospel' is from Paul or any of his writings except that which he clearly states are his own thoughts.
One Gospel, SAME for Jew & Gentile = NO DISTINCTION before God
Anyone who seeks to separate Jew from Gentile in the Body of Christ is in grave sin, distorting the Gospel.
The "twinkling of an eye" is strictly associated only with "the change" and not the Resurrection or the Rapture.
Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little.
1 Thess. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Now, putting that together with 1 Cor. 15 we see all of this happens in the BLINKING of an eye, this in less than one second. Thus how can the dead "REALLY" (wink wink) be raised first? That is my point. Paul is only reassuring the Thessalonians and Corithians that their loved ones will not be left behind.
As I stated, it's like me and the wife waking in a store hand and hand, if my foot crises the line into the store first did I really go in first? Or did we go in at the exact same time? I say the latter.
When trying to understand a subject spoken of we must gather all of the scriptures up in order to point unto the understandings we are being given. 1 Thess. 4 and 1 Cor. 15 which have to be studied together, so you can't just say, but, but, but, 1 Corinthians 15 doesn't say that they are raised an eyelash ahead of the living. Well, yes it does, because the resurrection of the Dead AND Living both happen in the blink of an eye, thus if the dead are really raised FIRST (Wink wink) then that has to be in less than a blink of an eye !!
The TRUTH sets us free, Amen.
Verse 14 tells us clearly this is about the Rapture BRINGING the END (70th week). So, the Rapture (if I remember you from another site) is Pre Trib, and thus this fits perfectly, why are you thus fighting these true facts? By the way, we agreed on little else.
The point went RIGHT OVER YOUR HEAD !! Sadly.
If I had letters to Churches today by varied preachers, I cod read them and learn also, but that would not make them "THUS SAITH THE LORD" Biblical scriptures would it?
This is too easy. It's like hitting the side of a barn with a shotgun blast and 5 feet, I can't miss, at least make it a challenging argument !!
The point stands, Paul's letters were not Thus Sath the Lord Scriptures. They were Letters unto Churches.
PERIOD.