Backsliding

[Roughsoul1991]

Precious friend, I am Certainly Glad God Has Made it Plain And Clear!:

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God DOTH NOT commit sin; for his
seed remaineth in him: and he CANNOT sin, because he is born of God.

Incorruptible spirit, Correct?

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:
for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Corruptible, Correct? Furthermore, IF I argue With God's Word Of Truth,
is not that a sin of the FLESH?


Yes, TOTALLY agree, God ALONE Knows, And, In Plain And Clear
BIBLICAL Fact, "HE Has ALWAYS KNOWN them who Are HIS Own!":

2Ti 2:19a Nevertheless The Foundation of God Standeth SURE,
Having This SEAL, The LORD Knoweth them that Are HIS.

Eph 1:4 According as He Hath Chosen us in HIM Before the foundation
of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before HIM in LOVE:

And, Then there is The BIBLICAL Opposite! ie:
HE HAS NEVER Known them who Are NOT HIS!:

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW you:
depart from ME, ye that work iniquity.

So, Exactly how is it one is "Saved, ALWAYS Being KNOWN,"
And, Then LOST, NEVER Being KNOWN!???

Should not we Be VERY Careful about calling God's Word Of Truth ludicrous,
for, as you yourself said, "HE Will JUDGE us Accordingly," Correct?


AMEN! God NEVER fails! And, Neither Will HE ETERNALLY fail In THESE
12 DOZEN Plain And Clear Scriptural "Gift Of ETERNAL Life" Passages!:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's FREE Gift of ETERNAL Life!

Oh, when will we ever learn NOT to ignore
CHRIST's FULL Sacrifice With HIS ALL-Sufficient BLOOD!?

This is how I understand the harmony of falling away, apostasy, being sealed, and incorruptible seed.

The Soul which is us being created in God's image. The soul and body was corrupted in the fall. When Jesus fulfilled His mission on Earth this for the believer through faith both of God's persuasion and of human will respond to the Holy Spirit's nudges into belief, repentance, and submission. Abide in Jesus and you are forever sealed and your soul is made righteous without sin in the eyes of God (uncorrupted).

The flesh on the other hand is still subjected to the law of sin as Paul described he had two laws within him.

A seal can be broken as it is in the context of a earnest agreement. One party paid everything up front while it is on the other party to not violate the agreement.

What violation could that be? To lose faith. As long as we abide in Jesus your soul is uncorrupted. Jude's letter warns of this.


Jude 3
New International Version
3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people.

4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

Contend for the faith

1864 epagōnízomai (from 1909 /epí, "focused on" and 73 /agṓn, "a contest, competition") – properly, to contend (literally, "struggle upon, appropriately"), i.e. with skill and commitment in opposing whatever is not of faith (God's persuasion).

Apostasy, falling away is a Biblical concept especially warned about starting in Hebrews through Jude.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The flesh on the other hand is still subjected to the law of sin as Paul described he had two laws within him.

Pual taught that the Sinful Nature, the Curse of the Lord, is permanently cut away and removed.

Colossians 2:9-15 - Here's a piece of it:

Colossians 2:11 NLT - 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature."

This means that what Paul wrote in Romans 7, he was referring to his old life, the "Old Man."

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Pual taught that the Sinful Nature, the Curse of the Lord, is permanently cut away and removed.

Colossians 2:9-15 - Here's a piece of it:

Colossians 2:11 NLT - 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature."

This means that what Paul wrote in Romans 7, he was referring to his old life, the "Old Man."

2 Corinthians 5:21
New International Version
21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

The only one without sin was Christ. If we could be perfect by our flesh or works, then why do we fall into sin (unknowing sin or knowing) after faith? Sanctification is God working in you throughout your relationship. What is there to work on if you are perfect already?

Now I'm no English teacher, but where is the past tense in these passages?


Romans 7:14-25
New International Version

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?

25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

The flesh is the physical that Paul explains in Colossians 2:11 that was not the physical procedure but instead a spiritual circumcision of the sin nature. As our hearts are no longer hardened, we are given a new heart, and now we see and understand the wisdom of God.

Colossians 2:11 NLT - 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature."

That spiritual circumcision was what Christ did on the cross. The sin was paid for, and now no condemnation for the believer. Notice paid for not removed in the physical sense.

Satan and the flesh still tempt us. This is spiritual warfare.


1 John 1:8
New International Version
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.


1 John 2
New International Version
2 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.


James 3:2
New International Version
2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.

Praise Jesus, who is our advocate, and the Holy Spirit, who is our helper in Sanctification.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

2 Corinthians 5:21
New International Version
21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

The only one without sin was Christ. If we could be perfect by our flesh or works, then why do we fall into sin (unknowing sin or knowing) after faith? Sanctification is God working in you throughout your relationship. What is there to work on if you are perfect already?

Now I'm no English teacher, but where is the past tense in these passages?


Romans 7:14-25
New International Version

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?

25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

The flesh is the physical that Paul explains in Colossians 2:11 that was not the physical procedure but instead a spiritual circumcision of the sin nature. As our hearts are no longer hardened, we are given a new heart, and now we see and understand the wisdom of God.

Colossians 2:11 NLT - 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature."

That spiritual circumcision was what Christ did on the cross. The sin was paid for, and now no condemnation for the believer. Notice paid for not removed in the physical sense.

Satan and the flesh still tempt us. This is spiritual warfare.


1 John 1:8
New International Version
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.


1 John 2
New International Version
2 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.


James 3:2
New International Version
2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.

Praise Jesus, who is our advocate, and the Holy Spirit, who is our helper in Sanctification.

It really isn't up for debate. Paul wrote these two passages regarding the "Sinful Nature":

Romans 7:18 NLT - "And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can't."

Colossians 2:11 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature."

Obviously, when Paul wrote of the Sin Nature in Romans, he wrote about it already having that Nature cut out and removed as perfectly described in Colossians 11. This explains Galatians 3:13 below:

Galatians 3:13 NLT - "But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

If that doesn't make sense, I don't know what to tell ya.

 

[Nehemiah6]

My spirit was born-again of incorruptible seed. Since I still can sin, sin is obviously coming from another source.

Correct. Those who have been born again still have to address the "flesh" (sin nature) which has not been eradicated. But the Bible says to those who have the Holy Spirit "Sin shall not have dominion over you". Which means that the Holy Spirit empowers Christians to resist sin and temptation. Those who fall into sin must repent and confess their sins.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

It really isn't up for debate. Paul wrote these two passages regarding the "Sinful Nature":

Romans 7:18 NLT - "And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can't."

Colossians 2:11 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature."

Obviously, when Paul wrote of the Sin Nature in Romans, he wrote about it already having that Nature cut out and removed as perfectly described in Colossians 11. This explains Galatians 3:13 below:

Galatians 3:13 NLT - "But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

If that doesn't make sense, I don't know what to tell ya.

It makes complete sense in harmony with the scriptures I posted as well. Or simply as Nehemiah put it. Christ took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. So that our sin is paid for the past, present, and future. He paid our debt before we ever took a breathe.

 

[CS1]

Does backsliding mean that a person has to get saved again,does It mean that the Incorruptible seed can be corrupted?

Backsliding is a progression back to the life of sin and leads to the abandonment of faith. What is one sliding back to ? And what are they sliding away from?


"Backsliding" can be seen or described as the type of conditions the church of Laodicea was in. The words of Jesus to the church of Laodicea where he said Rev 3:15-15 :

15“I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
This is what they were doing wrong but Jesus also said to them after this :

20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.


Jesus is saying to the backslider I am knocking on your door you must open it, and there is plenty of room around my Father's Throne for you to seat but you are the one who must come in faith and live in faith.

you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

I think Jesus is saying I would rather have you fighting with me or against me, but being undecided is good for nothing in this battle for Eternal life. Being a half-baked cake is no good. Choose this day who you will serve. There are no two masters only one. You will serve one or the other. You can't leave those who continue to drive you to sin, you made your choice. Not choosing is a choice.

 

[Absolutely]

Backsliding is a progression back to the life of sin and leads to the abandonment of faith. What is one sliding back to ? And what are they sliding away from?


"Backsliding" can be seen or described as the type of conditions the church of Laodicea was in. The words of Jesus to the church of Laodicea where he said Rev 3:15-15 :

15“I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
This is what they were doing wrong but Jesus also said to them after this :

20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.


Jesus is saying to the backslider I am knocking on your door you must open it, and there is plenty of room around my Father's Throne for you to seat but you are the one who must come in faith and live in faith.

you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

I think Jesus is saying I would rather have you fighting with me or against me, but being undecided is good for nothing in this battle for Eternal life. Being a half-baked cake is no good. Choose this day who you will serve. There are no two masters only one. You will serve one or the other. You can't leave those who continue to drive you to sin, you made your choice. Not choosing is a choice.

Reading your post i got a revelation.

This goes back to the urim and thumin of the levitical priest.

It was two stones or some objects that they used to get a yes or no from heaven.
IT COULD NOT say " maybe".

You just kinda tied all that in for me.

Maybe is not from God

Lukewarm

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It makes complete sense in harmony with the scriptures I posted as well. Or simply as Nehemiah put it. Christ took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. So that our sin is paid for the past, present, and future. He paid our debt before we ever took a breathe.

I owe you an apology. I saw the "long"ish post and felt that it would be another diatribe against me . . . and didn't read it. That's wrong and I should stop doing such. So, to answer one of your questions . . .

The only one without sin was Christ. If we could be perfect by our flesh or works, then why do we fall into sin (unknowing sin or knowing) after faith? Sanctification is God working in you throughout your relationship. What is there to work on if you are perfect already?

Since Colossians 2:9-15 shows that we are "complete" in Christ by His final Work of paying the debt for our sin, what we are left with, again, as it seems, is that we are to contend with the thoughts and memories that we have. The Sinful Nature is permanently removed, we have been set apart from the Law, and thus we have "freedom" in Christ. But as said, we must contend with our past thoughts and behaviors, such as being sexually intimate. Just because the Sinful Nature has been cut away forever, meaning, True Children of God have been Redeemed from the Curse of the Lord, do we all of a sudden forget the glories of the female body? Do we all of a sudden forget about our desire to become drunk through alcohol? As Paul said, if we cannot control ourselves and our longings for the female body, we should get married, though he had also said to remain in the same position we were in when Christ Circumcised our heart. Of course, these things apply to women and in the opposing direction as listed above.

We have become sinless in the eyes of God, for all remaining sin has been paid for by Christ.

1 John 2:1 NLT - "My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous."

(I'm not trying to teach you anything, but share what I understand . . . please forgive me). So, instead of offering up sacrifice over and over again for all residual sin (after the Sinful Nature has been removed), Christ is that one and final Sacrifice for all the sin of the world.

Hebrews 9:26 NLT - "If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, he has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by his own death as a sacrifice."

1 John 2:2 NLT - "He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins--and not only our sins but the sins of all the world."

Have a good day, friend!

 

[Oblio]

In Christ, He accepts and loves us completely just as we are...though He loves us too much to leave us here!

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Those who have been born again still have to address the "flesh" (sin nature) which has not been eradicated.

I don't understand. The removal of the Sinful Nature is the Purpose of Christ. And, it is also the focus of the Work of Christ. And it is the removal of the Sinful Nature being replaced by the Divine Nature that produces the Effect of Christ.

The Sinful Nature is cut away forever - just like the foreskin of a man's phallus:
Colossians 2:11 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature."

The Sinful Nature is replaced by the Divine Nature:
2 Peter 1:4 NLT - "And because of his glory and excellence, he has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share his divine nature and escape the world's corruption caused by human desires."

Nehemiah . . . you've missed the context of the entire Bible. The Sinful Nature is removed, we are given new spirits and hearts . . . SO THAT we will Love God and Obey and Live forever.

Deuteronomy 30:6 KJV - "And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

I know . . . I've never met a pastor that taught this from the pulpit (or from anywhere) either. We should be outraged that we, as a community, are not aware of these passages. Today's pastors are the future reflection of the former Sadducees, Pharisees, and teachers of the Law. Hence, Jesus said to them,

John 9:39-41 NLT - "Then Jesus told him, "I entered this world to render judgment--to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind." Some Pharisees who were standing nearby heard him and asked, "Are you saying we're blind?" "If you were blind, you wouldn't be guilty," Jesus replied. "But you remain guilty because you claim you can see."

Peace and Grace to you, friend.

 

[Oblio]

I see salvation, the price for which was paid once-for-all by Christ, like this:
1. When I first believed, my spirit was reborn of incorruptible seed. - John 3:3, 1 Peter 1:23
2. Sanctification of the soul is a process, at least it has been for me. - 1 Peter 1:9
3. I believe that when Jesus returns, we will be caught up to Him, and seeing Him, we will be given new bodies. Philippians 3:21
Together with my understanding and experience, I believe the above is the truth from God's word, according to His Holy Spirit.

 

[CS1]

I don't understand. The removal of the Sinful Nature is the Purpose of Christ. And, it is also the focus of the Work of Christ. And it is the removal of the Sinful Nature being replaced by the Divine Nature that produces the Effect of Christ.

The Sinful Nature is cut away forever - just like the foreskin of a man's phallus:
Colossians 2:11 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature."

The Sinful Nature is replaced by the Divine Nature:
2 Peter 1:4 NLT - "And because of his glory and excellence, he has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share his divine nature and escape the world's corruption caused by human desires."

Nehemiah . . . you've missed the context of the entire Bible. The Sinful Nature is removed, we are given new spirits and hearts . . . SO THAT we will Love God and Obey and Live forever.

Deuteronomy 30:6 KJV - "And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

I know . . . I've never met a pastor that taught this from the pulpit (or from anywhere) either. We should be outraged that we, as a community, are not aware of these passages. Today's pastors are the future reflection of the former Sadducees, Pharisees, and teachers of the Law. Hence, Jesus said to them,

John 9:39-41 NLT - "Then Jesus told him, "I entered this world to render judgment--to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind." Some Pharisees who were standing nearby heard him and asked, "Are you saying we're blind?" "If you were blind, you wouldn't be guilty," Jesus replied. "But you remain guilty because you claim you can see."

Peace and Grace to you, friend.

we are given the power to walk in the Spirit which is maturity in Christ and apart from the desires of the flesh. We rely on Jesus completely, yet, we are able to deny the appeal of the flesh IF we walk in the Spirit. as Galatians 5:16 tells us.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

we are given the power to walk in the Spirit which is maturity in Christ and apart from the desires of the flesh. We rely on Jesus completely, yet, we are able to deny the appeal of the flesh IF we walk in the Spirit. as Galatians 5:16 tells us.

The Promise (Blessing) given to Abraham (Genesis 17) explains the below passage:

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NIV - "I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."

The difference is the "If." We will be known by our fruit.

 

[CS1]

The Promise (Blessing) given to Abraham (Genesis 17) explains the below passage:

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NIV - "I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."

The difference is the "If." We will be known by our fruit.

The "if" is if you walk the Spirit the language means it is conditional. The Holy Spirit doesn't make you obey, nor does HE force one to walk in the Spirit. This is why we can Grieve the Holy Spirit. However, the sanctification process is happening as we live in this Boday because the flesh is not saved. We must fight the desires of the flesh when the world is saying give into them.

The Holy Spirit does not control USS he provided the fruit of Self-control IF we walk in the Spirit.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I owe you an apology. I saw the "long"ish post and felt that it would be another diatribe against me . . . and didn't read it. That's wrong and I should stop doing such. So, to answer one of your questions . . .



Since Colossians 2:9-15 shows that we are "complete" in Christ by His final Work of paying the debt for our sin, what we are left with, again, as it seems, is that we are to contend with the thoughts and memories that we have. The Sinful Nature is permanently removed, we have been set apart from the Law, and thus we have "freedom" in Christ. But as said, we must contend with our past thoughts and behaviors, such as being sexually intimate. Just because the Sinful Nature has been cut away forever, meaning, True Children of God have been Redeemed from the Curse of the Lord, do we all of a sudden forget the glories of the female body? Do we all of a sudden forget about our desire to become drunk through alcohol? As Paul said, if we cannot control ourselves and our longings for the female body, we should get married, though he had also said to remain in the same position we were in when Christ Circumcised our heart. Of course, these things apply to women and in the opposing direction as listed above.

We have become sinless in the eyes of God, for all remaining sin has been paid for by Christ.

1 John 2:1 NLT - "My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous."

(I'm not trying to teach you anything, but share what I understand . . . please forgive me). So, instead of offering up sacrifice over and over again for all residual sin (after the Sinful Nature has been removed), Christ is that one and final Sacrifice for all the sin of the world.

Hebrews 9:26 NLT - "If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, he has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by his own death as a sacrifice."

1 John 2:2 NLT - "He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins--and not only our sins but the sins of all the world."

Have a good day, friend!

I agree. I believe we are thinking the same just explain it differently.

Since Colossians 2:9-15 shows that we are "complete" in Christ by His final Work of paying the debt for our sin, what we are left with, again, as it seems, is that we are to contend with the thoughts and memories that we have. The Sinful Nature is permanently removed, we have been set apart from the Law, and thus we have "freedom" in Christ. But as said, we must contend with our past thoughts and behaviors

The depravity of our sinful nature is removed and now we can if we obey the Lord can be set free of any sin. If we fail then it isn't a matter of losing salvation if we stumble but simply a repent or turn back to Jesus is all we must do. It is a realignment if you will. As Luke describes we must pick up our cross daily.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The "if" is if you walk the Spirit the language means it is conditional. The Holy Spirit doesn't make you obey, nor does HE force one to walk in the Spirit. This is why we can Grieve the Holy Spirit. However, the sanctification process is happening as we live in this Boday because the flesh is not saved. We must fight the desires of the flesh when the world is saying give into them.

The Holy Spirit does not control USS he provided the fruit of Self-control IF we walk in the Spirit.

Yep, and the passage that I provided does not include the "if." Believe me, I get, and got, your point. We have Scripture that points to both ideas . . . which is why I don't get myself into a "bunch" about it.

Have a good day.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Backsliding is a progression back to the life of sin and leads to the abandonment of faith. What is one sliding back to ? And what are they sliding away from?


"Backsliding" can be seen or described as the type of conditions the church of Laodicea was in. The words of Jesus to the church of Laodicea where he said Rev 3:15-15 :

15“I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
This is what they were doing wrong but Jesus also said to them after this :

20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.


Jesus is saying to the backslider I am knocking on your door you must open it, and there is plenty of room around my Father's Throne for you to seat but you are the one who must come in faith and live in faith.

you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

I think Jesus is saying I would rather have you fighting with me or against me, but being undecided is good for nothing in this battle for Eternal life. Being a half-baked cake is no good. Choose this day who you will serve. There are no two masters only one. You will serve one or the other. You can't leave those who continue to drive you to sin, you made your choice. Not choosing is a choice.

So then would you say that backsliding doesn't mean the person has to get saved again,some Pentecostals say that a person that backslides Is not saved anymore,so then If a person backslides would you say that that person can come back to church as though they never left like the prodigal son?

 

[CS1]

Yep, and the passage that I provided does not include the "if." Believe me, I get, and got, your point. We have Scripture that points to both ideas . . . which is why I don't get myself into a "bunch" about it.

Have a good day.

nor do I.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I agree. I believe we are thinking the same just explain it differently.



The depravity of our sinful nature is removed and now we can if we obey the Lord can be set free of any sin. If we fail then it isn't a matter of losing salvation if we stumble but simply a repent or turn back to Jesus is all we must do. It is a realignment if you will. As Luke describes we must pick up our cross daily.

I hear you. However, I thought that Repentance was a one-time thing for a True Believer. Being granted the Ability to Repent is what I think is the 2nd basic Work of Christ. It seems, according to the Bible (and not me) that the first Work is the removal of the Curse of the Lord. After such, we are given the ability to Repent. The third Work is the gift of the Holy Spirit. And, for those [before] Christ, the final capstone of Christ's Work is to become the final Sacrifice which pays the debt for all sin.

For us [after] the Death of Christ, it seems that we receive these things nearly all at once. However, I do see that it is possible that the Curse of the Lord could be removed, thus being granted the ability to repent, but the Indwelling Holy Spirit [could] come at a later time. Then again [now that I think of it] if we are made right with God by believing in the Power of the Resurrection, it seems that we would be given the Spirit to teach, lead, and guide.

I love this mysterious Bible!