Be Perfect As Your Heavenly Father Is Perfect.

[justbyfaith]

I don't see it as hyperbole, but I agree--it is walking in a new direction. It's like a truism that says, "if you walk in the right path, you can't be walking in the wrong path." In our passage it is saying, in effect, "You cannot live a life of sin if you are choosing to walk in righteousness. If you've become reborn into God's nature of righteousness, and have chosen to live that way, then you can't be practicing sin.

It isn't an exaggeration to say this. It is, rather, a fact. It is talking about practicing sin on a daily basis. You don't do that when you've received a new nature and have decided to live by it.

Can we choose to *not* live by our new nature? Of course. Why else would John be saying this? It is not that we cannot sin, but that the person, after choosing to live by his new nature, cannot, logically, be going the wrong way! We would be foolishly choosing to go against the very nature we've chosen to adopt!

I know that I used to commit the same sin about once very two weeks with the excuse that I wasn't practicing it because each time it was "just this one time".

After twenty years of doing that, it became evident to me that I was in fact practicing sin.

 

[randyk]

I know that I used to commit the same sin about once very two weeks with the excuse that I wasn't practicing it because each time it was "just this one time".

After twenty years of doing that, it became evident to me that I was in fact practicing sin.

You won't be able to completely clean up all of these "lesser sins." I'm not here making light of sin, but there are greater and lesser sins. The worst sins end up killing people, or destroying them emotionally. Or, they separate us from God in a serious way, such that we aren't really walking with Him anymore.

On this path, there are mountains and valleys--we all have to go down that road, and it will never be "smooth sailing." Sorry about the mixed metaphor.

 

[justbyfaith]

You won't be able to completely clean up all of these "lesser sins."

I disagree with you wholeheartedly.

1Jo 1:7, But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jo 1:9, If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Tit 2:14, Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

[randyk]

I disagree with you wholeheartedly.

1Jo 1:7, But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jo 1:9, If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Tit 2:14, Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Feel free to believe your convictions. I also think the Scriptures oppose your belief when they say we continue to have a sin nature, even after receiving Christ, such that we have to regularly "overcome" sin in our daily lives. I don't know how you fool yourself into believing otherwise. I've been a Christian about 50 years, and the longer I've been a practicing Christian the more aware I am of this battle I have to continue to fight every day.

This is not false humility. It is fact. And it isn't healthful to your mind and heart to not believe that God loves you in the midst of your sin, that He gives you righteousness even in your undeserving condition. His grace is "new every morning." All He asks is that we pick up the shovel and dig every day and earn an honest spiritual living.

 

[justbyfaith]

Feel free to believe your convictions. I also think the Scriptures oppose your belief when they say we continue to have a sin nature, even after receiving Christ, such that we have to regularly "overcome" sin in our daily lives. I don't know how you fool yourself into believing otherwise. I've been a Christian about 50 years, and the longer I've been a practicing Christian the more aware I am of this battle I have to continue to fight every day.

This is not false humility. It is fact. And it isn't healthful to your mind and heart to not believe that God loves you in the midst of your sin, that He gives you righteousness even in your undeserving condition. His grace is "new every morning." All He asks is that we pick up the shovel and dig every day and earn an honest spiritual living.

I find that I am truly dead to the sin that dwells in my flesh (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8); or that the sin in my flesh has been rendered truly dead;

Because of this I am no longer obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)) and the element of sin doesn't any longer have any say over my behaviour (Romans 6:14).

If there is something defective in your own walk, then I am sorry for you.

I find that in my own walk, I am no longer drawn away by, enticed, or tempted by the toilet water that this world has to offer...

Because I am satisfied by the living water that Jesus gives.

You would do well to read the following passages every day alongside of any other Bible reading that you may do:

John 4:13-14,

John 6:35,

John 7:37-39.

I believe that the truth of these passages are capable of setting you free (John 8:31-36) if you will absorb them into your heart so that you do something about them as promises.

 

[ankagirl]

If no human being can be perfect, why did Jesus tell His disciples to be perfect?
These are my thoughts on this:

Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. Colossians 1:28

According to this verse, we are made perfect in Christ Jesus.
Although the concept may be hard to grasp, the Bible says that once we are saved, we no longer sin.

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9

Of course, this doesn't mean that we're not going to mess up after we get saved. Rather, it means that while we may sin in our flesh, our "inner man", as Paul calls it, is pure and does not sin.

Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 7:17, 25

 

[justbyfaith]

All He asks is that we pick up the shovel and dig every day and earn an honest spiritual living.

And of course there is no earning when it comes to salvation...for God will not owe anything to any man (Romans 4:4).

The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).

However, God does give us a free gift in His economy, and that gift is His righteousness (Romans 5:17) which is always practical (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6; 1 John 3:17-18).

 

[justbyfaith]

+++

I believe that it is a doctrine of gnosticism that tells us that we can sin in the flesh and it is of no consequence because the spirit-man is not involved in what you are doing.

I believe that the answer to this heretical doctrine is the reality that when we sin, we sin with our whole being.

So, if I sin with the flesh, I sin with the spirit.

 

[ankagirl]

"There is therefore now no condemnation for them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit" (Romans 8:1 (kjv))

Why is thhere no condemnation? Because we are in Christ Jesus, and our soul is renewed.

 

[justbyfaith]

"There is therefore now no condemnation for them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit" (Romans 8:1 (kjv))

Why is there <fify> no condemnation? Because we are in Christ Jesus, and our soul is renewed.

Being in Christ Jesus is also defined by the fact that we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

Gal 5:18, But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:22, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[randyk]

I find that I am truly dead to the sin that dwells in my flesh (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8); or that the sin in my flesh has been rendered truly dead;

Because of this I am no longer obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)) and the element of sin doesn't any longer have any say over my behaviour (Romans 6:14).

If there is something defective in your own walk, then I am sorry for you.

I find that in my own walk, I am no longer drawn away by, enticed, or tempted by the toilet water that this world has to offer...

Because I am satisfied by the living water that Jesus gives.

You would do well to read the following passages every day alongside of any other Bible reading that you may do:

John 4:13-14,

John 6:35,

John 7:37-39.

I believe that the truth of these passages are capable of setting you free (John 8:31-36) if you will absorb them into your heart so that you do something about them as promises.

I've said all I can say to you. You'll have to learn the truth over the long haul. Good luck!

Well, let me just add this. You've apparently won the victory over one small area of your life, and you now think that any enemy can be defeated, and now you're perfect.

But one small area of your life doesn't expose the total depravity in your life, including things like pride, judgmentalism, hostility, sarcasm, unkindness, patience, etc. If you haven't run into these things, I'm wondering how you define "perfection?"

Don't bother to answer. I know you're rooted in your beliefs. Again, I don't think there's anything more I can do for you, if I've done anything for you at all?

 

[justbyfaith]

I've said all I can say to you. You'll have to learn the truth over the long haul. Good luck!

Well, let me just add this. You've apparently won the victory over one small area of your life, and you now think that any enemy can be defeated, and now you're perfect.

But one small area of your life doesn't expose the total depravity in your life, including things like pride, judgmentalism, hostility, sarcasm, unkindness, patience, etc. If you haven't run into these things, I'm wondering how you define "perfection?"

Don't bother to answer. I know you're rooted in your beliefs. Again, I don't think there's anything more I can do for you, if I've done anything for you at all?

I was hoping that I was doing something for you...

You can come to a place in your walk where the sinful things that you used to thirst after no longer have any appeal...because you do not drink any more of those waters, you do not thirst after them again.

Jesus said that when you drink of the living water that He has to offer you, you will never thirst again.

I would encourage you to partake of this water; the water which if you partake of it, you will never thirst again.

This is Jesus' promise.

If you are still captivated by the sins of this world, I believe that there is a work that the Lord wants to do in your life...and it is a work that He can do.

He can bring you to a place in your walk wherein you do not desire the "water" that this world has to offer you any more; but you will be satisfied with the "living water" that Jesus is offering to you today.

Jhn 4:13, Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
Jhn 4:14, But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jhn 6:35, And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Jhn 7:37, In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Jhn 7:38, He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
TJhn 7:39, (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

 

[randyk]

I was hoping that I was doing something for you...

You can come to a place in your walk where the sinful things that you used to thirst after no longer have any appeal...because you do not drink any more of those waters, you do not thirst after them again.

Jesus said that when you drink of the living water that He has to offer you, you will never thirst again.

I would encourage you to partake of this water; the water which if you partake of it, you will never thirst again.

This is Jesus' promise.

If you are still captivated by the sins of this world, I believe that there is a work that the Lord wants to do in your life...and it is a work that He can do.

He can bring you to a place in your walk wherein you do not desire the "water" that this world has to offer you any more; but you will be satisfied with the "living water" that Jesus is offering to you today.

Jhn 4:13, Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
Jhn 4:14, But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jhn 6:35, And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Jhn 7:37, In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Jhn 7:38, He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
TJhn 7:39, (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

No, nice try though. Unscriptural truth won't help anybody, including yourself. You are deceived.

 

[randyk]

Rev 2.17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

Prov 6.16 There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

 

[Blik]

"perfect" means "perfect".

I am not claiming that anyone can become sinless (1 John 1:8)....but I will contend that a man can be made perfect (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv)).

I agree, perfect means perfect and that is what God means. We are to listen to all that Christ says, so we must listen as we are told that if we say we are perfect we lie, and we are to repent of our sin. How could we repent of sin and not strive to be perfect? Repentance doesn't mean to repent of some sin and allow others. Repent means that we are to aim at perfection.

When Christ said to be perfect, it is another way of telling us to repent of our sin--not some sins but repent of all our sin. We are given forgiveness if we fail. We must listen to every word of the Lord.

 

[randyk]

I agree, perfect means perfect and that is what God means. We are to listen to all that Christ says, so we must listen as we are told that if we say we are perfect we lie, and we are to repent of our sin. How could we repent of sin and not strive to be perfect? Repentance doesn't mean to repent of some sin and allow others. Repent means that we are to aim at perfection.

When Christ said to be perfect, it is another way of telling us to repent of our sin--not some sins but repent of all our sin. We are given forgiveness if we fail. We must listen to every word of the Lord.

You are misrepresenting the word "perfect" as it was being used *in context.* You are using it as though it is used in English, which does not easily translate into the context of human sinners, which we are discussing.

Yes, "perfect" would normally be used in English for something unblemished. But in the context of human sin, "perfect" cannot mean sinless, as you agree. So what is the sense of the word "perfect" in the context of human sin?

"Perfect" with respect to flawed human beings refers to someone who is living a life of obedience. And even more than that, it means someone who has completely transferred over to a life of righteousness from a life of intermittent obedience. It is living a born again lifestyle--not a sinless lifestyle.

So perfect conveys the idea of a complete change in nature, rather than going from imperfection to perfection with respect to sin. It has to do with completely abandoning a life dominated by sin to living a life still tarnished by the sin nature, and yet characterized by overcoming that sin.

The reason you don't get this is because it's difficult to transition from the English "perfect" to the biblical sense of a sinner living a life of righteousness. It sounds like a contradiction to have a sinner live a life of righteousness. But nevertheless, that is the life of one whose nature has been changed, and is living a life led by the spirit of grace.

To be "perfect" in the biblical sense, and as Jesus used the word, is to live in a new nature, inspired by God's grace. It is not being sinless, but rather, committing completely to Christ's righteousness.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, nice try though. Unscriptural truth won't help anybody, including yourself. You are deceived.

No...for everything that I believe is based in holy scripture.

But if you are believing things that are contrary to holy scripture...which I believe that you are...then I'm afraid that you have three fingers pointing back at you (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42).

 

[justbyfaith]

You are misrepresenting the word "perfect" as it was being used *in context.* You are using it as though it is used in English, which does not easily translate into the context of human sinners, which we are discussing.

Yes, "perfect" would normally be used in English for something unblemished. But in the context of human sin, "perfect" cannot mean sinless, as you agree. So what is the sense of the word "perfect" in the context of human sin?

"Perfect" with respect to flawed human beings refers to someone who is living a life of obedience. And even more than that, it means someone who has completely transferred over to a life of righteousness from a life of intermittent obedience. It is living a born again lifestyle--not a sinless lifestyle.

So perfect conveys the idea of a complete change in nature, rather than going from imperfection to perfection with respect to sin. It has to do with completely abandoning a life dominated by sin to living a life still tarnished by the sin nature, and yet characterized by overcoming that sin.

The reason you don't get this is because it's difficult to transition from the English "perfect" to the biblical sense of a sinner living a life of righteousness. It sounds like a contradiction to have a sinner live a life of righteousness. But nevertheless, that is the life of one whose nature has been changed, and is living a life led by the spirit of grace.

To be "perfect" in the biblical sense, and as Jesus used the word, is to live in a new nature, inspired by God's grace. It is not being sinless, but rather, committing completely to Christ's righteousness.

1Jo 1:7, But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jo 1:9, If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Tit 2:14, Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

If Jesus has cleansed you from all sin / unrighteousness; and has redeemed you from all iniquity, then you have been made perfect in a specific sense.

 

[Charlie24]

1Jo 1:7, But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jo 1:9, If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Tit 2:14, Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

If Jesus has cleansed you from all sin / unrighteousness; and has redeemed you from all iniquity, then you have been made perfect in a specific sense.

Nope! John is saying, the Blood of Jesus Christ constantly cleanses you from all sin, as in an continuous manner.

This perfection thing is being taken out of context!

 

[justbyfaith]

Nope! John is saying, the Blood of Jesus Christ constantly cleanses you from all sin, as in an continuous manner.

This perfection thing is being taken out of context!

So, as sin comes in from the outside, it is immediately cleansed out of the person's life.

Does this not indicate that, because the person is continually being cleansed from all sin, that sin does not have the opportunity to take permanent residence in the person's life?

For it is immediately cleansed out of the person's life the moment that it begins to come in.

This is the result of walking in the light as He is in the light.