Saved by Water

2ndTimothyGroup · Nov 21, 2021

Is it H20 that produces the Fruit of the Spirit, or is it the Spirit? No, no mention of water in Gal chapter 5. That's odd for such a critical element of Salvation.

Galatians 5:22-23 DBY - "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, fidelity, meekness, self-control: against such things there is no law."

justbyfaith · Nov 21, 2021

If you choose to eschew the waters of baptism as though they are some sort of condemnation, then that is on you.

I do not find them to be condemnation; I find them to be salvation; even in the word of the Lord.

But it is certainly your prerogative to not ever be baptized in Jesus' Name.

You may not ever receive the Holy Ghost; but that is on you.

The conditional promise is given to as many as the Lord our God shall call (Acts 2:39).

You may not be called; and therefore it is foreordained that you will never be baptized in Jesus' Name, if indeed you are not called.

However, consider what Romans 8:30 says to you as concerning this.

justbyfaith · Nov 21, 2021

2ndTimothyGroup said:

Baptism is mentioned in Galatians 3:27.

Faith isn't mentioned in every chapter of the Bible either, is faith therefore not an element to our salvation?

So your argument falls apart.

2ndTimothyGroup · Nov 21, 2021

No sprinkling in the below passages, nor mention of it in all of chapter 32. No water, no baptism. My, how curious.

Jeremiah 32:39 NLT - "And I will give them one heart and one purpose: to worship me forever, for their own good and for the good of all their descendants."

2ndTimothyGroup · Nov 21, 2021

Oh boy . . . all of Romans chapter 2 contains no mention of the sprinkle, nor water, nor even baptism. Gasp!!! Wouldn't getting the "sprinkle" be a part of legalism?

Romans 2:27-29 NLT - "In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God's law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God's law but don't obey it. For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."

justbyfaith · Nov 21, 2021

2ndTimothyGroup said:

Again, faith is not mentioned in every chapter of the Bible.

Is faith therefore not an essential element to salvation?

Answer me.

2ndTimothyGroup · Nov 21, 2021

Oh no . . . Exodus chapter 31 has no mention of the sprinkle, nor water, nor baptism. What now?

Exodus 31:3-5 KJV - "And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, And in cutting of stones, to set [them], and in carving of timber, to work in all manner of workmanship."

God does all of this and doesn't mention meager, physical water? Oh my.

2ndTimothyGroup · Nov 21, 2021

Well, we must assume that the seven thousand prophets were made holy by the sprinkle. But weren't they chosen by Grace? Huh . . . no mention of water. No sprinkle.

Romans Chapter 11, Verses 3-5 . . . N I V: . . . "Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"? And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal." So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.”

2ndTimothyGroup · Nov 21, 2021

Whew . . . sorrow leads to Salvation? And you said it was the sprinkle! No, no mention of water in chapter 7!

Second Corinthians Chapter 7, Verse 10 . . . N L T: . . . “For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. There's no regret for that kind of sorrow. But worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual death.”

2ndTimothyGroup · Nov 21, 2021

And what about the Ministry of Reconciliation? Nope, no mention of water, here, at all. Bummer.

Second Corinthians Chapter 5, Verses 17-21 . . . E S V: . . . “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”

2ndTimothyGroup · Nov 21, 2021

Are we sure that the sprinkle is about water? Are we to rip open our chests and douse our hearts with water? And Pure water? Did they have water filters back in the day?

Hebrews Chapter 10, Verse 22 . . . K J V: . . . “Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.”

2ndTimothyGroup · Nov 21, 2021

Shouldn't the Romans chapter 11 passage below indicate that wah wah is necessary? Did Israel not find the favor of the lord because they didn't get dunked? Or, was their election based upon being chosen? Were they not in the favor of the Lord because the Lord hardened their hearts? Oh . . . if they only had water purifiers so that they could cut open their chests and get the sprinky upon their hearts.

Romans Chapter 11, Verse 7 . . . N L T: . . . “So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have – the ones God has chosen – but the hearts of the rest were hardened.”

FreeGrace2 · Nov 21, 2021

justbyfaith said:

Yes. If you really want to take it literally, then one HAS TO BE baptized by the Lord Himself, in the flesh.

You may think what you want. Discernment is required to know what is literal and what is figure of speech/metaphor.

peldom10 · Nov 21, 2021

2ndTimothyGroup said:

Why do you continue to ignore proper scripture?
I have asked you before ....read Acts 2; 38 and tell me why that is not one of the several controlling commandments for baptism?

If you don't want to...then just say ...... you are new a age religion person.

Further, why can't you show me a teaching reference on .......your baptism philosophy..... presented in the Christian realm prior to the 1960's?

Be constructive...rather than argumentative.

2ndTimothyGroup · Nov 21, 2021

peldom10 said:

I'm not a newbie. I've studied Acts 2:38.

Acts 2:38 NKJV - "Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

What are we to be baptized "in"? Water? Or, Jesus Christ?

You promote that the context of the Bible (whether you understand this or not) is water baptism. I, however, promote that the context of the Bible is Spiritual Baptism.

You promote that Salvation comes through physical water, while I promote that Salvation comes through Spiritual Water.

There is nothing that you could ever say that will remove me from attempting to understand the Bible outside of the Spiritual Realm. If you desire to keep your mind in the world . . . ok then. I will never do such a thing, which is to limit my thinking to worldly, physical "things."

2ndTimothyGroup · Nov 21, 2021

Moreover, I will not be going round and round in fruitless conversation. But as I continue to write a personal commentary that revolves around Spiritual Circumcision, I will continue to post the obvious context of the entire Bible . . . Spiritual Baptism.

There will be plenty more to come.

2ndTimothyGroup · Nov 21, 2021

Ahhh . . . our battle is with Spiritual Rulers and Authorities in the Heavenly Realms. And how are we to combat and defeat them? Earthly water! Sure, makes perfect sense. Spiritual Rulers and Authorities must cringe when we do the sprinkle.

Ephesians 6:12 NIV - "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

peldom10 · Nov 21, 2021

2ndTimothyGroup said:

Is it H20 that produces the Fruit of the Spirit, or is it the Spirit? No, no mention of water in Gal chapter 5. That's odd for such a critical element of Salvation.

Galatians 5:22-23 DBY - "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, fidelity, meekness, self-control: against such things there is no law."

How many places do you want it mentioned?

peldom10 · Nov 21, 2021

2ndTimothyGroup said:

I'm not a newbie. I've studied Acts 2:38.

Acts 2:38 NKJV - "Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

What are we to be baptized "in"? Water? Or, Jesus Christ?

You promote that the context of the Bible (whether you understand this or not) is water baptism. I, however, promote that the context of the Bible is Spiritual Baptism.

You promote that Salvation comes through physical water, while I promote that Salvation comes through Spiritual Water.

There is nothing that you could ever say that will remove me from attempting to understand the Bible outside of the Spiritual Realm. If you desire to keep your mind in the world . . . ok then. I will never do such a thing, which is to limit my thinking to worldly, physical "things."

You remind me of a political leader who said....it is a matter of what is....is.

May that there come a day when you take God's word for what it means...rather than trying to stand for change of God's word.

peldom10 · Nov 21, 2021

Under the OT/OC baptism in water was for outward skin cleansing.....under the NT/NC it is for soul cleansing of sin.

I have always been convinced that we are to take the Bible in totality...if the NT changes the OT then the NT prevails. Likewise if the NT does not change the OT then the OT prevails.
There are many examples.
Divorce
Sacrifice on the Cross
Sin forgiveness
etc.

Saved by Water

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