How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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surfer14 said:
Hey David,
Just thought I'd pipe in here to tell you three things:
1. Keep up the good work on disputing this pre-trib rapture hogwash.
2. I've been catching a ton of fish lately. A ton of thoroughly decent fish!
3. Since you brought up death and reaping and such... I might put the flyrod down and pick up the rifle for the winter though. There's coyotes to be called... and shot....and I'm the man for the job!

That is all.
Carry on.
:cool::cool:
Click to expand...

What's your address, i am packing now - see you in about 4-5 days as i travel slow because of a bad hip - lol
 
ewq1938 said:
Have you double checked the Greek word's definition?


G1407
δρέπανον
drepanon
drep'-an-on
From δρέπω drepō (to pluck); a gathering hook (especially for harvesting) : - sickle.
Total KJV occurrences: 8

G1407
δρέπανον
drepanon
Thayer Definition:
1) a sickle, a pruning-hook, a hooked vine knife, such as reapers and vinedressers use
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from drepo (to pluck)

This is not the type of wheat or grain or grass type of sickle you are thinking of. This type of sickle is made especially for harvesting grapes.
Click to expand...

ty
 
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ewq1938 said:
Have you double checked the Greek word's definition?


G1407
δρέπανον
drepanon
drep'-an-on
From δρέπω drepō (to pluck); a gathering hook (especially for harvesting) : - sickle.
Total KJV occurrences: 8

G1407
δρέπανον
drepanon
Thayer Definition:
1) a sickle, a pruning-hook, a hooked vine knife, such as reapers and vinedressers use
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from drepo (to pluck)

This is not the type of wheat or grain or grass type of sickle you are thinking of. This type of sickle is made especially for harvesting grapes.
Click to expand...

And He said, “The kingdom of God is as if a man should scatter seed on the ground, 27and should sleep by night and rise by day, and the seed should sprout and grow, he himself does not know how. 28For the earth yields crops by itself: first the blade, then the head, after that the full grain in the head. 29But when the grain ripens, immediately he puts in the sickle, because the harvest has come.”

Same word used here in Mark 4:29

imho - This is a sharp instrument for cutting the standing grain in the fields. Sickle is shaped as a hook - curved as a hook.
It cuts and gathers in one swoop.

Key in Rev 14 is what the Lord says just prior to Him thrusting in the sharp Sickle, that shows this is not the rapture.

Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”
Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.

There can be no rapture until the Resurrection. Christ is sitting is also key.

Now, you can ask me why the Lord with a Sharp Sickle............He tolds us of this. PEACE
 
DavidTree said:
And He said, “The kingdom of God is as if a man should scatter seed on the ground, 27and should sleep by night and rise by day, and the seed should sprout and grow, he himself does not know how. 28For the earth yields crops by itself: first the blade, then the head, after that the full grain in the head. 29But when the grain ripens, immediately he puts in the sickle, because the harvest has come.”

Same word used here in Mark 4:29

imho - This is a sharp instrument for cutting the standing grain in the fields. Sickle is shaped as a hook - curved as a hook.
It cuts and gathers in one swoop.

Key in Rev 14 is what the Lord says just prior to Him thrusting in the sharp Sickle, that shows this is not the rapture.

Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”
Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.

There can be no rapture until the Resurrection. Christ is sitting is also key.

Now, you can ask me why the Lord with a Sharp Sickle............He tolds us of this.
Click to expand...


This is still the type of sickle used to harvest the fruit carefully not to harm it.

G1407
δρέπανον
drepanon
Thayer Definition:
1) a sickle, a pruning-hook, a hooked vine knife, such as reapers and vinedressers use
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from drepo (to pluck)


I have to disagree with you on Revelation 14. The first harvest is the rapture, a harvest by Christ.
 
ewq1938 said:
This is still the type of sickle used to harvest the fruit carefully not to harm it.

G1407
δρέπανον
drepanon
Thayer Definition:
1) a sickle, a pruning-hook, a hooked vine knife, such as reapers and vinedressers use
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from drepo (to pluck)


I have to disagree with you on Revelation 14. The first harvest is the rapture, a harvest by Christ.
Click to expand...

humble reminder - we are to dwell on what is said/written - not on what is not there - this is the tendency the 'pre-trib' people make.

v13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”
v14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.

meditate on scripture - i allow scripture to show me what it says and it takes time/prayer/study = all that you do as well
 
Absolutely said:
Rev 14
Jesus gathers with a sickle sitting on a cloud during the trib.
Click to expand...
Funny --- I don't see the words "during the trib" anywhere in that chapter... :unsure:

Why do you believe [verses 14-16] occur "during the trib"...?

Do you believe everything occurring in that chapter to be in chronological order?
 
ewq1938 said:
This is still the type of sickle used to harvest the fruit carefully not to harm it.

G1407
δρέπανον
drepanon
Thayer Definition:
1) a sickle, a pruning-hook, a hooked vine knife, such as reapers and vinedressers use
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from drepo (to pluck)


I have to disagree with you on Revelation 14. The first harvest is the rapture, a harvest by Christ.
Click to expand...

Google images of "hooked vine knife" and "hooked sickle" - they are identical except for size/dimensions

They are a sharp curved knife to cut

PEACE
 
DavidTree said:
Google images of "hooked vine knife" and "hooked sickle" - they are identical except for size/dimensions

They are a sharp curved knife to cut

PEACE
Click to expand...


Yes to cut carefully which is why they are smaller than the big destructive sickles you are thinking about. Even in Revelation 14 the sickle is not used to damage the grapes, but they are placed into a winepress for that.

I have grape vines on my property. I used a small sharp knife to carefully harvest the grapes. The only difference is that the biblical one has a curve but it was used the same way I used mine.
 
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surfer14 said:
Hey David,
Just thought I'd pipe in here to tell you three things:
1. Keep up the good work on disputing this pre-trib rapture hogwash.
2. I've been catching a ton of fish lately. A ton of thoroughly decent fish!
3. Since you brought up death and reaping and such... I might put the flyrod down and pick up the rifle for the winter though. There's coyotes to be called... and shot....and I'm the man for the job!

That is all.
Carry on.
:cool::cool:
Click to expand...
Maybe you can show us a verse pointing to a postrib rapture

Should be easy since you are knowledgeable of a postrib rapture.

I have never seen one.
But you can surely point to a basis of your belief.
 
ewq1938 said:
Have you double checked the Greek word's definition?


G1407
δρέπανον
drepanon
drep'-an-on
From δρέπω drepō (to pluck); a gathering hook (especially for harvesting) : - sickle.
Total KJV occurrences: 8

G1407
δρέπανον
drepanon
Thayer Definition:
1) a sickle, a pruning-hook, a hooked vine knife, such as reapers and vinedressers use
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from drepo (to pluck)

This is not the type of wheat or grain or grass type of sickle you are thinking of. This type of sickle is made especially for harvesting grapes.
Click to expand...
Yeah...no brainer
What a reckless statement to try and change rev 14.
Thanks for looking it up
 
ewq1938 said:
Yes to cut carefully which is why they are smaller than the big destructive sickles you are thinking about. Even in Revelation 14 the sickle is not used to damage the grapes, but they are placed into a winepress for that.

I have grape vines on my property. I used a small sharp knife to carefully harvest the grapes. The only difference is that the biblical one has a curve but it was used the same way I used mine.
Click to expand...

Yes Brother, i understand as i have used them.
Scripture clear two key facts, verse 13 Blessed are those who die in the Lord from now on(this point forward)
Therefore the Lord used the symbolic 'sharp knife sickle' for the harvest thru death - no rapture.

Now there is something very Beautiful and Powerful going on here in the death of the Saints - can you see it???
 
Evmur said:
Forget about Revelations 14 ... go by the plain and open scripture in 2.Thess.2. which specifically deals with the rap. That day does not come unless FIRST there is the great rebellion, 2nd the man of rebellion is revealed who will oppose everything god so called [including YOU]

He's coming after YOU this is the great tribulation.

He is the beast, Jesus slays him in the temple ... there is no more persecution, no more mark of the beast after Jesus comes Antichrist is slain.
Click to expand...
Rev 19 has Jesus coming post wrath on horses

Not in the trib
 
Absolutely said:
Maybe you can show us a verse pointing to a postrib rapture

Should be easy since you are knowledgeable of a postrib rapture.

I have never seen one.
But you can surely point to a basis of your belief.
Click to expand...

WOW WOW WOWZA Brother - You never read the Gospel of Matthew???

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 
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