As a Catholic priest told me once years ago when asking a question about God - "My son, that's a mystery". It's best not to upchuck wood though, at least for a wood chuck.How much would could a wood chuck, chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood?
Once Saved Always Saved is True.
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It is a tongue twister! As in, sea shells, she sails, down by the sea shore.
And he better not be eating the wood as he certainly would have to UPCHUCK it.
How much would could a wood chuck, chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood?
Oh dear me--I did it AGAIN--'would' instead of WOOD! I'm surprised you didn't 'elbow' me on that one!
Oh man, - missed a good opportunity there. You are certainly clever and amusing that's for sure.Oh dear me--I did it AGAIN--'would' instead of WOOD! I'm surprised you didn't 'elbow' me on that one!
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
What is sad is when the false teacher tries to warn us against false teachers.
I do not know anything about Joel osteen who I can;t judge, I can only judge what I see
Although my god said to judge not lest ye be judged. So I would rather discuss the word. Not judge others.
Did you know Paul was the first sinner to get saved.
1Ti_1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
I'm new here. This is my first post, actually. I'm confused about Paul being the first to be saved. The apostles received the Holy Spirit in Acts 2, before Paul became a Christian in Acts 9?
In answer to the post, yes, I do believe in the preservation of the saints, provided one is truly saved. Romans 10:8-9 says that "if we confess with our mouth the LORD Jesus...with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." It is not only belief in Jesus as Savior, but also as Lord, giving control of our lives over to Him. Many people want to go to heaven, but don't really want to be transformed on earth. The indwelling Holy Spirit does the transforming: "But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord." (2 Cor. 3:18). I believe that simply looking for a way to heaven without a willingness to be transformed on earth is not true salvation. We will never be perfect, but Christians long for maturity, and steadily improve as the Trinity works on them.
However, if one is truly saved (and only God knows the heart), then they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. According to Ephesians 1:13-14, we were "sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." 1 Peter 1:3-4 says, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does NOT fade away" (Emphasis, mine.) Jude 24 says, "Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy..." 1 Thessalonians 5:23 says, "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit, soul and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful, who also WILL do it" (emphasis, mine).
Since believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit who is a guarantee of our salvation, and since God Himself sanctifies us (though we want to be obedient), and is faithful to do it, I don't see how a truly saved person can ever lose his/her salvation.
servantanna
1Ti_1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
I'm new here. This is my first post, actually. I'm confused about Paul being the first to be saved. The apostles received the Holy Spirit in Acts 2, before Paul became a Christian in Acts 9?
In answer to the post, yes, I do believe in the preservation of the saints, provided one is truly saved. Romans 10:8-9 says that "if we confess with our mouth the LORD Jesus...with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." It is not only belief in Jesus as Savior, but also as Lord, giving control of our lives over to Him. Many people want to go to heaven, but don't really want to be transformed on earth. The indwelling Holy Spirit does the transforming: "But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord." (2 Cor. 3:18). I believe that simply looking for a way to heaven without a willingness to be transformed on earth is not true salvation. We will never be perfect, but Christians long for maturity, and steadily improve as the Trinity works on them.
However, if one is truly saved (and only God knows the heart), then they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. According to Ephesians 1:13-14, we were "sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." 1 Peter 1:3-4 says, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does NOT fade away" (Emphasis, mine.) Jude 24 says, "Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy..." 1 Thessalonians 5:23 says, "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit, soul and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful, who also WILL do it" (emphasis, mine).
Since believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit who is a guarantee of our salvation, and since God Himself sanctifies us (though we want to be obedient), and is faithful to do it, I don't see how a truly saved person can ever lose his/her salvation.
servantanna
Just wondering which category he would have to fit in to qualify as a charlatan. Or maybe he is in his own class... are there believing charlatans?
Ys, ty, I'm familiar with this perspective and keep it in consideration. However, I've heard this particular context such as 'springs without water' pertaining to the unmerciful and think there might be merit in that perspective also.
Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. Some value them, some don't.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
What did he do with that money? Just asking
and what would Jesus or the 12 have done with that money? Again just asking
Hi Mem,
I see now what you're saying. the verse you are referring to are those who once believed and then fell away--actually that is an excellent verse to refute OSAS with, thank you for pointing it out.
In regards to Osteen, you could be right in that respect. There are many well known pastors and teachers who professed faith in Christ and have fallen away even 'denying' the Christ that bought them--my uncle was a pastor and he ended up leaving the pastorate, along with his family and said he no longer believed.
…15They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness. 16But he was rebuked for his transgression by a donkey, otherwise without speech, that spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. 17These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them.…"--2 Peter 2:16
He is a Charlatan because he preaches a false gospel. Here's an article if you care to read--there are numerous others. It is based on what he teaches--this is how you know who is true and who is false. It is a false gospel to preach 'you can have your best life now'--No. Our best life is yet to come--in eternity. "You will have troubles in this life, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world."
Excerpt from: https://www.kevinhalloran.net/the-anti-gospel-message-of-joel-osteen/
Osteen’s Anti-Gospel
Osteen’s words here are anti-gospel. The gospel says deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow Christ (Mark 8:34
). It says “For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel’s will save it” (Mark 8:35). The god of Osteen and prosperity theology is nothing more than a butler who serves people what they want—health, wealth, and happiness. The human is at the center and God is our servant.Osteen’s false “message of positivity” from Genesis 3 offers no comfort for the laid off man or the unmarried woman longing for a husband. If anything, it makes them feel worse about themselves and their “lack of faith.” When teaching neglects to expose sin and show our need for a Savior, it will distract listeners from what they truly need: salvation in Jesus.
The gospel doesn’t give us our best life now as Osteen promises, but it does give us hope through suffering. We are promised our best life later if we trust in Jesus and repent of our sins. The gospel teaches that God Himself is the greatest treasure imaginable, better than any amount of success or fleeting pleasure we could ever attain in this life.
Why I Share This
When I think of the prosperity gospel, I can’t help but think of my friend Cesar. He and his family attended a prosperity gospel church for many years that preached Osteen-esque messages. They thought they were good Christians on God’s path. But then God stepped in and opened Cesar’s eyes to the truth as he searched the Scriptures. Now, Cesar often shares with tears in his eyes how thankful He is for God rescuing him from the clutches of false teaching.
My hope for this post is that God would turn many more people like Cesar from false teaching and to His life-giving gospel. The true gospel is so much better because, as Albert Mohler frequently says, “…the biggest problem with prosperity theology is not that it promises too much, but that it promises far too little.”
How on Earth would I know.
Probably build the Jesus Hilton right there in Jerusalem.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I doubt jesus would have done that. In fact I know that would not be true. Why would jesus do something that helps himself and not somethign that helps others. That would go against his whole message if sacrifice and selflessness.
He would have found who needed that money and gave it to them. Much like paul did what he could to give to the church in Jerusalem who was being persecuted.
Again I ask. What did Joel do with the money he took?
It could have been a blessing from God. Then again, God blessed a farmer with a great crop. And instead of using it the farmer stored it and tried to retire. That nice he died.
why did this happen? Did God give him this blessing because people needed it? (Think Joseph) If God gave it just to make him prosperous. Why did God get angry and take his life?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Its amazing when one legalists accuses another person of legalism.He is a Charlatan because he preaches a false gospel. Here's an article if you care to read--there are numerous others. It is based on what he teaches--this is how you know who is true and who is false. It is a false gospel to preach 'you can have your best life now'--No. Our best life is yet to come--in eternity. "You will have troubles in this life, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world."
Excerpt from: https://www.kevinhalloran.net/the-anti-gospel-message-of-joel-osteen/
Osteen’s Anti-Gospel
Osteen’s words here are anti-gospel. The gospel says deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow Christ (Mark 8:34
Osteen’s false “message of positivity” from Genesis 3 offers no comfort for the laid off man or the unmarried woman longing for a husband. If anything, it makes them feel worse about themselves and their “lack of faith.” When teaching neglects to expose sin and show our need for a Savior, it will distract listeners from what they truly need: salvation in Jesus.
The gospel doesn’t give us our best life now as Osteen promises, but it does give us hope through suffering. We are promised our best life later if we trust in Jesus and repent of our sins. The gospel teaches that God Himself is the greatest treasure imaginable, better than any amount of success or fleeting pleasure we could ever attain in this life.
Why I Share This
When I think of the prosperity gospel, I can’t help but think of my friend Cesar. He and his family attended a prosperity gospel church for many years that preached Osteen-esque messages. They thought they were good Christians on God’s path. But then God stepped in and opened Cesar’s eyes to the truth as he searched the Scriptures. Now, Cesar often shares with tears in his eyes how thankful He is for God rescuing him from the clutches of false teaching.
My hope for this post is that God would turn many more people like Cesar from false teaching and to His life-giving gospel. The true gospel is so much better because, as Albert Mohler frequently says, “…the biggest problem with prosperity theology is not that it promises too much, but that it promises far too little.”
Balak is a good example that shows the distinction between sensual and spiritual faith. The donkey, an external force, stopped Balak from going forward in his intent, i.e., a worldly gain drove him to that point, not any sort of spiritual heart internal guidance.