Misconceptions
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Yeah good joke 
So what is the objective evidence through history that you know of ?
So what is the objective evidence through history that you know of ?
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
1 Corinthians chapter 12 through 14 Open verse states : 12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:
chapter 14 Last Two verse states :
39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
Not one verse states that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit HAVE CEASED. That was added by those who look at what IS Canonized yet don't see that 1corthian chapters 12 through 14 are part of the Canonized scripture.
the gifts of the Holy Have been well documented from the Four Gospel to the Book of Acts and the early church. From each recorded move of God that shook nations with revival And continues today. Do you want evidence? Start in your own life why are you not seeing people saved by your faith? How many drug addicts have you seen delivered from the depth of hell? IF not why not? Do you share the gospel message ? is there no confirming what you have said by a person getting saved? Or are people wowed by your knowledge of the word of God? What power is in your witness? As Jesus said you shall receive power after the Holy Spirit comes upon you to be a WITNESS! Acts 1:8
Where is your proof of you being a witness of Christ how are you witnessing that HE has risen from the Dead as Those in the book 0f Acts did in chapter 4:33. Please tell me how gang bangers, those of homeless came off heroin and drugs by your Knowledge of the Bible? Please tell me how you're expository teaching worked on the streets of LA, SF, and NY?
I want to hear of your results from your fruit. Then I will gladly for the glory of God share what GOD has done in my life and for others through the gifts of the Holy Spirit AFTER YOU. PLease I will wait
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for starters, the Lord Jesus said Mark 16:17
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
1 Corinthians chapter 12 through 14 Open verse states : 12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:
chapter 14 Last Two verse states :
39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
Not one verse states that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit HAVE CEASED. That was added by those who look at what IS Canonized yet don't see that 1corthian chapters 12 through 14 are part of the Canonized scripture.
the gifts of the Holy Have been well documented from the Four Gospel to the Book of Acts and the early church. From each recorded move of God that shook nations with revival And continues today. Do you want evidence? Start in your own life why are you not seeing people saved by your faith? How many drug addicts have you seen delivered from the depth of hell? IF not why not? Do you share the gospel message ? is there no confirming what you have said by a person getting saved? Or are people wowed by your knowledge of the word of God? What power is in your witness? As Jesus said you shall receive power after the Holy Spirit comes upon you to be a WITNESS! Acts 1:8
Where is your proof of you being a witness of Christ how are you witnessing that HE has risen from the Dead as Those in the book 0f Acts did in chapter 4:33. Please tell me how gang bangers, those of homeless came off heroin and drugs by your Knowledge of the Bible? Please tell me how you're expository teaching worked on the streets of LA, SF, and NY?
I want to hear of your results from your fruit. Then I will gladly for the glory of God share what GOD has done in my life and for others through the gifts of the Holy Spirit AFTER YOU. PLease I will wait
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
1 Corinthians chapter 12 through 14 Open verse states : 12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:
chapter 14 Last Two verse states :
39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
Not one verse states that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit HAVE CEASED. That was added by those who look at what IS Canonized yet don't see that 1corthian chapters 12 through 14 are part of the Canonized scripture.
the gifts of the Holy Have been well documented from the Four Gospel to the Book of Acts and the early church. From each recorded move of God that shook nations with revival And continues today. Do you want evidence? Start in your own life why are you not seeing people saved by your faith? How many drug addicts have you seen delivered from the depth of hell? IF not why not? Do you share the gospel message ? is there no confirming what you have said by a person getting saved? Or are people wowed by your knowledge of the word of God? What power is in your witness? As Jesus said you shall receive power after the Holy Spirit comes upon you to be a WITNESS! Acts 1:8
Where is your proof of you being a witness of Christ how are you witnessing that HE has risen from the Dead as Those in the book 0f Acts did in chapter 4:33. Please tell me how gang bangers, those of homeless came off heroin and drugs by your Knowledge of the Bible? Please tell me how you're expository teaching worked on the streets of LA, SF, and NY?
I want to hear of your results from your fruit. Then I will gladly for the glory of God share what GOD has done in my life and for others through the gifts of the Holy Spirit AFTER YOU. PLease I will wait
We saw many, many people professing faith in Christ. From all walks.
Before that I was with Campus Crusade doing outreach at university as a student and saw many profess faith in Christ.
All it would take now is to try going out again sharing.
Not easy inviting people to church tho.. we meet at the pastors house. But yeah.. these always hope.
An explanation from the past:
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...verses-cessationists.53624/page-2#post-848660
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...verses-cessationists.53624/page-2#post-848660
They ceased for all the wrong reasons. Often where there has been a true revival, the gifts of the Holy Spirit have been restored. The real church was utterly suppressed by Catholicism for centuries. One notable restoration was during the period that John and Charles Wesley ministered. John Wesley stated, and I agree, that the spiritual condition of the church was the the problem. John Wesley was Anglican all his life, but was scathing about the pathetic state of the Church of England.
The Welsh revival of 1900's was similar. There was a revival in Australia in 1902 led by RA Torrey. In the 1970's the Charismatic movement restored the gifts to the church. Now the gifts of the Spirit are rarely manifested even in full on Pentecostal churches. The decline of the gifts is due to spiritual decay, not because we don't need them anymore. Speaking in tongues is the least of the gifts and overemphasis on tongues is unhelpful. Saying you must speak in tongues to prove that you are saved is heresy. But the gifts of the Spirit are necessary and will be until the end of the church age.
Why should the gifts be helpful? The Bible is not specific in many cases. I was with a small group of Christians who attended a wedding. We came from about 1,000 km away, from different directions. Two of the people came by motorbike. One was completely unable to move because of a terrible toothache. His brother said that we should pray for him. To myself, I said that God does not heal teeth. I'd never heard such a thing. The Lord said to me, "Yes I do!" I had a gift of faith for that moment. I prayed for the man and he was healed instantly. I've had nothing exactly like that since - 45 years ago.
I had some serious spiritual problems due to my lack of knowledge of God's ways. I met a man who had a number of spiritual gifts. He discerned the root cause of the problem. I may never have been set free otherwise.
Spiritual gifts do not replace study of God's word, prayer and fellowship. But they can sure shine a light on a specific problem, offer guidance in difficult situations, answer the cry of a seeking heart, encourage someone who is struggling or give direction to someone who lacks wisdom.
If you think that the Church is perfect and no longer needs spiritual gifts, I would have to disagree. I've been saved 50 years. The church is but a shadow of what it was when I was first saved.
The Welsh revival of 1900's was similar. There was a revival in Australia in 1902 led by RA Torrey. In the 1970's the Charismatic movement restored the gifts to the church. Now the gifts of the Spirit are rarely manifested even in full on Pentecostal churches. The decline of the gifts is due to spiritual decay, not because we don't need them anymore. Speaking in tongues is the least of the gifts and overemphasis on tongues is unhelpful. Saying you must speak in tongues to prove that you are saved is heresy. But the gifts of the Spirit are necessary and will be until the end of the church age.
Why should the gifts be helpful? The Bible is not specific in many cases. I was with a small group of Christians who attended a wedding. We came from about 1,000 km away, from different directions. Two of the people came by motorbike. One was completely unable to move because of a terrible toothache. His brother said that we should pray for him. To myself, I said that God does not heal teeth. I'd never heard such a thing. The Lord said to me, "Yes I do!" I had a gift of faith for that moment. I prayed for the man and he was healed instantly. I've had nothing exactly like that since - 45 years ago.
I had some serious spiritual problems due to my lack of knowledge of God's ways. I met a man who had a number of spiritual gifts. He discerned the root cause of the problem. I may never have been set free otherwise.
Spiritual gifts do not replace study of God's word, prayer and fellowship. But they can sure shine a light on a specific problem, offer guidance in difficult situations, answer the cry of a seeking heart, encourage someone who is struggling or give direction to someone who lacks wisdom.
If you think that the Church is perfect and no longer needs spiritual gifts, I would have to disagree. I've been saved 50 years. The church is but a shadow of what it was when I was first saved.
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I appreciate the effort that GRA put into that post. While I agree with some of it, his cessationist interpretation doesn't really make sense scripturally or with reality.
Paul proceeds to discuss prophesying and give instructions on how to judge the authenticity of prophesying.
So the gift of prophesying didn't cease at the time of Paul's writings and quite frankly it doesn't say when it will cease anywhere in the Bible. I think that's the bottom line. And the gifts haven't stopped.
Did you know God was very serious when He said "Have faith?" He loves faith a lot. I think He will bless whoever has great faith with gifts. It's all for His glory afterall.
There are still people capable of receiving messages from God, the Creator of the universe. I have my own testimonies and others have their own testimonies. There's not an easy way to describe what that's like, but once you experience that sort of gift it puts 1 Corinthians 13 in a different perspective.
Paul proceeds to discuss prophesying and give instructions on how to judge the authenticity of prophesying.
So the gift of prophesying didn't cease at the time of Paul's writings and quite frankly it doesn't say when it will cease anywhere in the Bible. I think that's the bottom line. And the gifts haven't stopped.
Did you know God was very serious when He said "Have faith?" He loves faith a lot. I think He will bless whoever has great faith with gifts. It's all for His glory afterall.
There are still people capable of receiving messages from God, the Creator of the universe. I have my own testimonies and others have their own testimonies. There's not an easy way to describe what that's like, but once you experience that sort of gift it puts 1 Corinthians 13 in a different perspective.
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We are talking about the three gifts that would cease according to prophecy . They ceased for all the right reasons. Since the Bible was now complete there was no need for those three gifts. And after the apostles passed on, there was no need for the gifts associated with the apostles. The Bible says that there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb. So the gift of apostles was limited. So were the signs, wonders, and miracles associated with the apostles.
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You have no basis to say that. In fact, it is the opposite. The founding Apostles are not here anymore, but the Holy Spirit is. If the manifestations that were (and are to a degree) common are not the Holy Spirit, then what is the source? Be careful what you say. Attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil is the unpardonable sin.
Since I have said no such thing, please listen up:
1. The apostles are limited to just the twelve (Paul included). Their names are in the twelve foundations of the wall of the New Jerusalem. Indisputable evidence.
2. There were no apostles after the twelve. Church history confirms this.
3. The signs, wonders and miracles were the gifts given to the apostles to authenticate the Gospel. See Hebrews 2 and other passages. They are called "the signs of an apostle" by Paul.
4. Once the apostles passed on, those spiritual gifts ceased (including that of apostles and prophets). Again check out Church history.
5. Paul prophesied that (a) prophecy, (b) tongues, and (c) knowledge (supernatural) would cease. Once the Bible was complete those gifts ceased. Again check out Church history. John warned in Revelation that nothing more was to be added.
6. If God said that some gifts would cease, why are Christians unwilling to accept that decision? Because they think they are wiser than God.
1. The apostles are limited to just the twelve (Paul included). Their names are in the twelve foundations of the wall of the New Jerusalem. Indisputable evidence.
2. There were no apostles after the twelve. Church history confirms this.
3. The signs, wonders and miracles were the gifts given to the apostles to authenticate the Gospel. See Hebrews 2 and other passages. They are called "the signs of an apostle" by Paul.
4. Once the apostles passed on, those spiritual gifts ceased (including that of apostles and prophets). Again check out Church history.
5. Paul prophesied that (a) prophecy, (b) tongues, and (c) knowledge (supernatural) would cease. Once the Bible was complete those gifts ceased. Again check out Church history. John warned in Revelation that nothing more was to be added.
6. If God said that some gifts would cease, why are Christians unwilling to accept that decision? Because they think they are wiser than God.
No, it's because God did not put a time and date on when they would cease. And signs and wonders were not limited to the apostles. Stephen also did great miracles. He was not one of the 12. Acts 6:8. You still have not answered my question. If the gift of prophecy, knowledge and tongues ceased, what is the source of such things now? I've spoken in tongues, I've prophesied and I have the gift of word of knowledge. I had a word from the Lord this afternoon, for someone struggling in the walk. He was uplifted and encouraged. I can assure you it was nothing to do with my human wit or wisdom. It is the work of the Holy Spirit.
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Hi again, Wattie,
I was wondering why faith was listed as one of the spiritual gifts (listed in my previous response to this). I knew it must be an unsual faith--that stands out from the rest. I thought this article was helpful. Perhaps other will will find it helpful--I for one am very glad you've posted this--I have never thought to pray for the gifts, but I am going to now! And I wish that everyone would! First on my list is this faith! (I see they left off miracle working in this list)
I found this article which I found helpful --though they left off miracle working faith...I'll be searching for other articles...
The spiritual gift of faith is found in the list of the gifts of the Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12. Verse 9 says that some people are given the gift of faith, but the gift is not specifically explained. All believers have been given saving faith by God as the only means of salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9), but not all believers are given the spiritual gift of faith. Like all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, the spiritual gift of faith was given for the “common good,” which means the edifying of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:7).
The gift of faith may be defined as the special gift whereby the Spirit provides Christians with extraordinary confidence in God’s promises, power, and presence so they can take heroic stands for the future of God’s work in the church. The spiritual gift of faith is exhibited by one with a strong and unshakeable confidence in God, His Word, and His promises. Examples of people with the gift of faith are those listed in Hebrews chapter 11. This chapter, often called “the hall of faith,” describes those whose faith was extraordinary, enabling them to do extraordinary, superhuman things. Here we see Noah spending 120 years building a huge boat when, up to that time, rain was non-existent and Abraham believing he would father a child when his wife’s natural ability to do so had ended. Without the special gift of faith from God, such things would have been impossible.
As with all spiritual gifts, the gift of faith is given to some Christians who then use it to edify others in the body of Christ. Those with the gift of faith are an inspiration to their fellow believers, exhibiting a simple confidence in God that shows in all they say and do. Extraordinarily faithful people show a humble godliness and reliance on God’s promises, often so much so that they are known to be quietly fearless and zealous. They are so convinced that all obstacles to the gospel and to God’s purposes will be overcome and so confident that God will secure the advancement of His cause, that they will often do far more in the promotion of His kingdom than the most talented and erudite preachers and teachers.
To sum it up, God gives all Christians saving faith. The spiritual gift of faith is given to some, who exhibit extraordinary amounts of faith in their Christian walk and who, by their faith, are a joy and an encouragement to others.
https://www.gotquestions.org/gift-of-faith.html
I was wondering why faith was listed as one of the spiritual gifts (listed in my previous response to this). I knew it must be an unsual faith--that stands out from the rest. I thought this article was helpful. Perhaps other will will find it helpful--I for one am very glad you've posted this--I have never thought to pray for the gifts, but I am going to now! And I wish that everyone would! First on my list is this faith! (I see they left off miracle working in this list)
I found this article which I found helpful --though they left off miracle working faith...I'll be searching for other articles...
The spiritual gift of faith is found in the list of the gifts of the Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12. Verse 9 says that some people are given the gift of faith, but the gift is not specifically explained. All believers have been given saving faith by God as the only means of salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9), but not all believers are given the spiritual gift of faith. Like all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, the spiritual gift of faith was given for the “common good,” which means the edifying of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:7).
The gift of faith may be defined as the special gift whereby the Spirit provides Christians with extraordinary confidence in God’s promises, power, and presence so they can take heroic stands for the future of God’s work in the church. The spiritual gift of faith is exhibited by one with a strong and unshakeable confidence in God, His Word, and His promises. Examples of people with the gift of faith are those listed in Hebrews chapter 11. This chapter, often called “the hall of faith,” describes those whose faith was extraordinary, enabling them to do extraordinary, superhuman things. Here we see Noah spending 120 years building a huge boat when, up to that time, rain was non-existent and Abraham believing he would father a child when his wife’s natural ability to do so had ended. Without the special gift of faith from God, such things would have been impossible.
As with all spiritual gifts, the gift of faith is given to some Christians who then use it to edify others in the body of Christ. Those with the gift of faith are an inspiration to their fellow believers, exhibiting a simple confidence in God that shows in all they say and do. Extraordinarily faithful people show a humble godliness and reliance on God’s promises, often so much so that they are known to be quietly fearless and zealous. They are so convinced that all obstacles to the gospel and to God’s purposes will be overcome and so confident that God will secure the advancement of His cause, that they will often do far more in the promotion of His kingdom than the most talented and erudite preachers and teachers.
To sum it up, God gives all Christians saving faith. The spiritual gift of faith is given to some, who exhibit extraordinary amounts of faith in their Christian walk and who, by their faith, are a joy and an encouragement to others.
https://www.gotquestions.org/gift-of-faith.html
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Well I'm saying they professed faith in Christ.. very difficult to know exactly who actually genuine believed in those people.
But as to the outreach I was doing.. well guess I'd have to get you to contact my friends thru Facebook that were part of campus Crusade and part of my church in the past.... but I dont think we need go that far.
But as to the outreach I was doing.. well guess I'd have to get you to contact my friends thru Facebook that were part of campus Crusade and part of my church in the past.... but I dont think we need go that far.