Once Saved Always Saved is True.

[Aerials1978]

Salvation is a choice. That would mean that the destiny of man is decided by each individual as to whether he will meet the demands of God for salvation!

On the other hand, the Calvinist will argue against this until the cows come home!

I’m not a Calvinist, but I do think there is more evidence to that doctrine then that of Arminianism. People really despair over the latter.

Hebrews chapter 6 has been a death blow to some people because it’s misconstrued. Not only do they believe they lost salvation, but it cannot be attained again. Others would argue that a reaffirmation is need. Neither is Biblical.

 

[Aerials1978]

Aerials, that makes no sense. If a teacher has an attendance sheet and you attend that school, you are on the sheet--if you get kicked out of that school, your name will be removed from the attendance sheet.

It is GODS BOOK OF LIFE--it is written by GOD HIMSELF. Why would God write an unsaved person's name in the Book of Life since He knows the end from the beginning? He clearly is showing us that we can be LOST even though once we were FOUND.

We are all Israel--there were those of Israel that DID NOT ENTER God's REST--what is this rest? When we go to be with Him and live with Him in the heavenly kingdom and eternity.

Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, as on the day of testing in the wilderness, where your ancestors put me to the test, though they had seen my works for forty years. Therefore I was angry with that generation, and I said, ‘They always go astray in their hearts, and they have not known my ways.’ As in my anger I swore, ‘They will not enter my rest.’” (Hebrews 3:7-11).

It does make sense. God does not sit in Heaven with a big red marker waiting to ex-out someone’s name if He already knew would respond to His grace and I would even go as far to say that God chose them and not the other way around.

Also, the book of Hebrews was written to Jews who were thinking of going back to the laws of Moses and traditions of their ancestors. That’s a form of blaspheming the Holy Sprit. There was a large enough percentage of these people who seriously considered rejecting Christ as an atoning sacrifice.

No, a truly saved individual cannot lose salvation. It’s God sovereignty and not the other way around.

 

[Charlie24]

I’m not a Calvinist, but I do think there is more evidence to that doctrine then that of Arminianism. People really despair over the latter.

Hebrews chapter 6 has been a death blow to some people because it’s misconstrued. Not only do they believe they lost salvation, but it cannot be attained again. Others would argue that a reaffirmation is need. Neither is Biblical.

Hebrews was written on the basis of what was said in Acts 21:20. This was said probably by James when Paul went to Jerusalem to see James and Peter.

" And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:"

James is saying (or at least it was a leader in the Church) to Paul that the Jews "were zealous of the Law." This means they were more determined to keep the Law than ever. This determination was concerning being circumcised along with faith in Christ for salvation for the Jews.

Of course this is what Paul preached against, he was chased around everywhere he went by the Jews who wanted to kill him because of this.

This is one of the many reasons I believe Paul wrote the book of Hebrews! Hebrews is the case for Christ apart from the Law. Paul explains the reason for a New Covenant and who Christ is in this Covenant.

There were many Jews who had accepted Christ and then the circumcision thing comes out by the Judaizes. They claim that the Law must be kept through circumcision in order to be saved.

Paul is arguing that by going back to Law they have forfeited there salvation. In his epistles he says that the Law makes void faith and there is no salvation.

Rom. 4:14

"For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:"

Paul further nails it down in Gal. 2:21

"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."

In Hebrew 6 and 10, Paul is telling the Jews that accepting the Law makes faith in Christ void, salvation no longer exists!

By doing this the Son of God is trodden under foot, The Holy Spirit is embarrassed and has to leave the person because faith has been made void by accepting the works of the Law.

 

[Laura798]

It does make sense. God does not sit in Heaven with a big red marker waiting to ex-out someone’s name if He already knew would respond to His grace and I would even go as far to say that God chose them and not the other way around.

Also, the book of Hebrews was written to Jews who were thinking of going back to the laws of Moses and traditions of their ancestors. That’s a form of blaspheming the Holy Sprit. There was a large enough percentage of these people who seriously considered rejecting Christ as an atoning sacrifice.

No, a truly saved individual cannot lose salvation. It’s God sovereignty and not the other way around.

Again, the OSAS camp says, "Did God really say....?"

 

[Laura798]

Again, the OSAS camp says, "Did God really say....?"

Please explain to me why an unsaved person's name would be written in the book of life?

I'll put it another way. You have 100 soldiers wounded and taken to the hospital--they have a role sheet of patients--12 die--there names are taken OFF that sheet. God is God. He is not going to put anyone's name in the book of life unless they are one of the righteous, but then like Judas fall away--yes their name WILL be BLOTTED OUT. Let the scripture say what it says--you are simply twisting it to fit your false doctrine of OSAS.

 

[Aerials1978]

Hebrews was written on the basis of what was said in Acts 21:20. This was said probably by James when Paul went to Jerusalem to see James and Peter.

" And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:"

James is saying (or at least it was a leader in the Church) to Paul that the Jews "were zealous of the Law." This means they were more determined to keep the Law than ever. This determination was concerning being circumcised along with faith in Christ for salvation for the Jews.

Of course this is what Paul preached against, he was chased around everywhere he went by the Jews who wanted to kill him because of this.

This is one of the many reasons I believe Paul wrote the book of Hebrews! Hebrews is the case for Christ apart from the Law. Paul explains the reason for a New Covenant and who Christ is in this Covenant.

There were many Jews who had accepted Christ and then the circumcision thing comes out by the Judaizes. They claim that the Law must be kept through circumcision in order to be saved.

Paul is arguing that by going back to Law they have forfeited there salvation. In his epistles he says that the Law makes void faith and there is no salvation.

Rom. 4:14

"For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:"

Paul further nails it down in Gal. 2:21

"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."

In Hebrew 6 and 10, Paul is telling the Jews that accepting the Law makes faith in Christ void, salvation no longer exists!

By doing this the Son of God is trodden under foot, The Holy Spirit is embarrassed and has to leave the person because faith has been made void by accepting the works of the Law.

None of this is an indication of losing justification of a true convert. These again are addressing people who have either rejected or believe that their works are needed in addition to Christ’s propitiation.

 

[Charlie24]

None of this is an indication of losing justification of a true convert. These again are addressing people who have either rejected or believe that their works are needed in addition to Christ’s propitiation.

I beg to differ and agree to disagree!

 

[Aerials1978]

Again, the OSAS camp says, "Did God really say....?"

That’s not really a counter point, but more of an opinion. I don’t mind having a conversation about such doctrine, but when it comes back to ad hominems, the discussion become futile.

 

[soberxp]

Maybe we should say Saved By Grace Of God.
SBGOG, not OSAS

 

[Laura798]

None of this is an indication of losing justification of a true convert. These again are addressing people who have either rejected or believe that their works are needed in addition to Christ’s propitiation.

Aerials, I also disagree. read what it plainly says without filtering it through your OSAS lens--practice Exegesis vs Eisegesis.

 

[Laura798]

That’s not really a counter point, but more of an opinion. I don’t mind having a conversation about such doctrine, but when it comes back to ad hominems, the discussion become futile.

How is Scripture a counterpoint? I'm using it to point out that you are 'translating' scripture with your OSAS lens, vs letting the scripture speak for itself--Ad Hominem is an attack on a person vs attacking an idea. Just because a majority believes something, doesn't make it so--millions died in the flood--only 8 were saved.

 

[Aerials1978]

I beg to differ and agree to disagree!

I didn’t want people to feel they need to appease God in order for their salvation to be guaranteed. Jesus never preached that nor did the Apostles.

Too many have led fruitless lives because they want to live up to a standard they cannot accomplish. When Jesus said it was finished, it was finished.

 

[Charlie24]

I didn’t want people to feel they need to appease God in order for their salvation to be guaranteed. Jesus never preached that nor did the Apostles.

Too many have led fruitless lives because they want to live up to a standard they cannot accomplish. When Jesus said it was finished, it was finished.

You can call it whatever you like, but God demands faith in His Son!

If that condition is not met, there will be no salvation!

 

[Aerials1978]

How is Scripture a counterpoint? I'm using it to point out that you are 'translating' scripture with your OSAS lens, vs letting the scripture speak for itself--Ad Hominem is an attack on a person vs attacking an idea. Just because a majority believes something, doesn't make it so--millions died in the flood--only 8 were saved.

You’re trying to categorize me and peg me with a particular ideology and or group(i.e. the OSAS camp) That’s inaccurate. You seem to be pushing a “I’m right and your wrong” narrative and somewhat combative about it.

 

[Aerials1978]

You can call it whatever you like, but God demands faith in His Son!

If that condition is not met, there will be no salvation!

God also demands people and nations to repent, we both know they don’t. Enjoy the freedom and peace that comes from grace, a price that was paid not of human accord.

 

[Aerials1978]

Aerials, I also disagree. read what it plainly says without filtering it through your OSAS lens--practice Exegesis vs Eisegesis.

Using those words does not make one a scholar nor correct. Why are you so hostile?

 

[Laura798]

I didn’t want people to feel they need to appease God in order for their salvation to be guaranteed. Jesus never preached that nor did the Apostles.

Too many have led fruitless lives because they want to live up to a standard they cannot accomplish. When Jesus said it was finished, it was finished.

Wow Aerials--we have said over and over and OVER again, that we do not believe in a works based salvation. Please go back and re-read our posts--this is so frustrating. Why can't you understand that? Jesus said ABIDE. Jesus said OBEY. Why do we obey? Why do we Abide--out of LOVE and out of reverence--we believe what God says --we are to 'work out our salvation in fear and trembling'--not a fear of damnation--i have ZERO fear of that---no it is because I know who God is --it is the same healthy fear a child has of a loving parent.

We aren't trying to EARN Salvation--we already have it. And no one has to fear losing it as long as they ABIDE and OBEY.

Do we sin? Yes EVERY DAY--in some negative thought or how we treat others--in anger in doubt, etc. But the bible says "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."--1 John 1:9

This walk is a walk of Surrender. Of Abiding. Of obedience out of our love for Him.

There are two camps on the falling away side and two side of the same coin--those who no longer believe and those who live a life in a continual life of sin--God is not prayed to, sin is not confessed--it is their WALK, not a stumble in that walk.

OSAS is why the church is so broken and so many Christians live like the world.

 

[Laura798]

Using those words does not make one a scholar nor correct. Why are you so hostile?

Where is the hostility...and a scholar? it is easier to type out the words than to type out the definition. Obviously you aren't listening as you continue to say we are legalist. That is obviously frustrating.

 

[Aerials1978]

Where is the hostility...and a scholar? it is easier to type out the words than to type out the definition. Obviously you aren't listening as you continue to say we are legalist. That is obviously frustrating.

I never said anything of such. You’re abrasive in your responses because of a belief that you hold. That’s pretty much it

 

[Laura798]

I never said anything of such. You’re abrasive in your responses because of a belief that you hold. That’s pretty much it

From your post #253 (?)

I didn’t want people to feel they need to appease God in order for their salvation to be guaranteed. Jesus never preached that nor did the Apostles.

Too many have led fruitless lives because they want to live up to a standard they cannot accomplish. When Jesus said it was finished, it was finished.